Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ

[Leskya]

Fascinating.

That's absolutely horrific. Not many people talk about sexual assault and abuse within the Jewish community, and how many people are shamed or afraid of speaking up about it. It's all overshadowed by the Catholic child abuse scandal, too (not to say that the Catholic Church scandal isn't important).

[Jolthig]

I learned it from menessa. I thought if you renounced judiasm, that's it your done, apparently not.

A Jew cannot convert away from their Judaism, so it stands to reason that a convert who becomes a Jew cannot then convert away from their Judaism.

So, what happens when a so called Jew leaves the faith?

[Kowani]

Fascinating.

Well shit.

[Fahran]

Fascinating.

This makes my heart hurt.

[Menassa]

Fascinating.

That's absolutely horrific. Not many people talk about sexual assault and abuse within the Jewish community, and how many people are shamed or afraid of speaking up about it. It's all overshadowed by the Catholic child abuse scandal, too (not to say that the Catholic Church scandal isn't important).

The curious thing in this situation is that from what I can tell the abuser wasn't Jewish, unless I misread something or the Rabbi who sent it to me did.

A Jew cannot convert away from their Judaism, so it stands to reason that a convert who becomes a Jew cannot then convert away from their Judaism.

So, what happens when a so called Jew leaves the faith?

They're still Jewish, as much as they don't want to be.

[Noders]

That's absolutely horrific. Not many people talk about sexual assault and abuse within the Jewish community, and how many people are shamed or afraid of speaking up about it. It's all overshadowed by the Catholic child abuse scandal, too (not to say that the Catholic Church scandal isn't important).

The curious thing in this situation is that from what I can tell the abuser wasn't Jewish, unless I misread something or the Rabbi who sent it to me did.

So, what happens when a so called Jew leaves the faith?

They're still Jewish, as much as they don't want to be.

^ this one hundred percent

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

I am %0.2 Ashkenaz jewish

[Fahran]

I am %0.2 Ashkenaz jewish

(Image)

Matrilineal descent?

[Hanafuridake]

Fascinating.

Despite being trashy*, SVU does deserve some credit for spreading awareness about sexual assault.

* Though that's true for the entire franchise.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

I am %0.2 Ashkenaz jewish

(Image)

Matrilineal descent?

I do not know just %0.2 Ashkenaz jewish %54.3 Turkish (Rize)

[Thermodolia]

Fascinating.

Despite being trashy*, SVU does deserve some credit for spreading awareness about sexual assault.

* Though that's true for the entire franchise.

Thems fighting words

[Hanafuridake]

Despite being trashy*, SVU does deserve some credit for spreading awareness about sexual assault.

* Though that's true for the entire franchise.

Thems fighting words

Never been comfortable with how it ripped plot lines from head lines or normalized police brutality and plots follow the exact same formula almost every episode.

[Prydania]

A Jew cannot convert away from their Judaism, so it stands to reason that a convert who becomes a Jew cannot then convert away from their Judaism.

So, what happens when a so called Jew leaves the faith?

"Culturally Jewish" is a term used to describe athetistic or agnostic Jews who never the less still partake in the cultural aspects of Jewish religious tradition because they find it comforting, wish to partake in family gatherings, or simply find value in it despite not fully (or entirely) embracing the religious side of it all.

There are also Jews who become atheists or agnostics and just drop all religious practices all together. They may refer to themselves as "ethnically Jewish" or not, depends on the person. Judaism, like all other religions, doesn't have an "exit plan." There's no ceremony or interview or form (lol) to stop believing/partaking in the faith. You just...I donno...stop going to synagogue and stop showing up for Sabbath I guess.

Finally there are Jews who convert to another religion. This is a very broad and wide-ranging group of people. Some find value in their Jewish heritage but find spiritual fulfillment elsewhere. That seems to be the majority of Jewish converts to Christianity these days. I've heard a number of these people say they hold nothing against their Jewish background, but they believe that Christianity is the "fulfillment" of Judaism.
There are also Jews who convert (either to Christianity or some other faith) who do so because they find Judaism utterly lacking for spiritual and/or cultural reasons. These can range from people who just find a sense of fulfillment in some other faith to the good ole' fashion self-hating Jew.

The question is...are Jews who convert to another faith- regardless of their opinions on their previous Jewishiness- still Jews? It's a contentious question. They're still viewed as Jewish in some way by many, though it's understood why they personally would like to viewed as members of their new faith.

[Rojava Free State]

So, what happens when a so called Jew leaves the faith?

"Culturally Jewish" is a term used to describe athetistic or agnostic Jews who never the less still partake in the cultural aspects of Jewish religious tradition because they find it comforting, wish to partake in family gatherings, or simply find value in it despite not fully (or entirely) embracing the religious side of it all.

There are also Jews who become atheists or agnostics and just drop all religious practices all together. They may refer to themselves as "ethnically Jewish" or not, depends on the person. Judaism, like all other religions, doesn't have an "exit plan." There's no ceremony or interview or form (lol) to stop believing/partaking in the faith. You just...I donno...stop going to synagogue and stop showing up for Sabbath I guess.

Finally there are Jews who convert to another religion. This is a very broad and wide-ranging group of people. Some find value in their Jewish heritage but find spiritual fulfillment elsewhere. That seems to be the majority of Jewish converts to Christianity these days. I've heard a number of these people say they hold nothing against their Jewish background, but they believe that Christianity is the "fulfillment" of Judaism.
There are also Jews who convert (either to Christianity or some other faith) who do so because they find Judaism utterly lacking for spiritual and/or cultural reasons. These can range from people who just find a sense of fulfillment in some other faith to the good ole' fashion self-hating Jew.

The question is...are Jews who convert to another faith- regardless of their opinions on their previous Jewishiness- still Jews? It's a contentious question. They're still viewed as Jewish in some way by many, though it's understood why they personally would like to viewed as members of their new faith.

I tend to try to separate judaism as a religion and ethnicity and use the term "Israelite" to refer to an individual descended from the people who created the Jewish religion and Jewish to refer to a person who practices the religion. Not everyone of Israelite descent practices judaism and conversely not all Jews are of Israelite descent. I myself am of Sephardic and mizrahi Jewish descent but identify as an agnostic and don't practice any customs of the faith. As a result I may be of Israelite descent but I identify as non-jewish. I mainly identify ethnically as a Hispanic and to a lesser extent Lebanese because my family is from Puerto Rico and that is the culture I mainly came up in and my dad's side of the family came from Lebanon

[Ethel mermania]

"Culturally Jewish" is a term used to describe athetistic or agnostic Jews who never the less still partake in the cultural aspects of Jewish religious tradition because they find it comforting, wish to partake in family gatherings, or simply find value in it despite not fully (or entirely) embracing the religious side of it all.

There are also Jews who become atheists or agnostics and just drop all religious practices all together. They may refer to themselves as "ethnically Jewish" or not, depends on the person. Judaism, like all other religions, doesn't have an "exit plan." There's no ceremony or interview or form (lol) to stop believing/partaking in the faith. You just...I donno...stop going to synagogue and stop showing up for Sabbath I guess.

Finally there are Jews who convert to another religion. This is a very broad and wide-ranging group of people. Some find value in their Jewish heritage but find spiritual fulfillment elsewhere. That seems to be the majority of Jewish converts to Christianity these days. I've heard a number of these people say they hold nothing against their Jewish background, but they believe that Christianity is the "fulfillment" of Judaism.
There are also Jews who convert (either to Christianity or some other faith) who do so because they find Judaism utterly lacking for spiritual and/or cultural reasons. These can range from people who just find a sense of fulfillment in some other faith to the good ole' fashion self-hating Jew.

The question is...are Jews who convert to another faith- regardless of their opinions on their previous Jewishiness- still Jews? It's a contentious question. They're still viewed as Jewish in some way by many, though it's understood why they personally would like to viewed as members of their new faith.

I tend to try to separate judaism as a religion and ethnicity and use the term "Israelite" to refer to an individual descended from the people who created the Jewish religion and Jewish to refer to a person who practices the religion. Not everyone of Israelite descent practices judaism and conversely not all Jews are of Israelite descent. I myself am of Sephardic and mizrahi Jewish descent but identify as an agnostic and don't practice any customs of the faith. As a result I may be of Israelite descent but I identify as non-jewish. I mainly identify ethnically as a Hispanic and to a lesser extent Lebanese because my family is from Puerto Rico and that is the culture I mainly came up in and my dad's side of the family came from Lebanon

The thing is though. (Personally I am fine however you want to identify) the body of halakha says you are a jew regardless, as long as your maternal lineage traces Jewish, (or a conversion somewhere in the path).

Personally I think someone who converts to another faith should be automagically out of the tribe, but that is not how it works.

[Rojava Free State]

I tend to try to separate judaism as a religion and ethnicity and use the term "Israelite" to refer to an individual descended from the people who created the Jewish religion and Jewish to refer to a person who practices the religion. Not everyone of Israelite descent practices judaism and conversely not all Jews are of Israelite descent. I myself am of Sephardic and mizrahi Jewish descent but identify as an agnostic and don't practice any customs of the faith. As a result I may be of Israelite descent but I identify as non-jewish. I mainly identify ethnically as a Hispanic and to a lesser extent Lebanese because my family is from Puerto Rico and that is the culture I mainly came up in and my dad's side of the family came from Lebanon

The thing is though. (Personally I am fine however you want to identify) the body of halakha says you are a jew regardless, as long as your maternal lineage traces Jewish, (or a conversion somewhere in the path).

Personally I think someone who converts to another faith should be automagically out of the tribe, but that is not how it works.

My mother is strongly against the concept of "cultural judaism." In her eyes, she believes once someone stops believing in the faith they are no longer a jew. For example, Jews who are atheist in religious tendencies. Mom would tell you those people cannot be Jews when they don't even believe in God. My dad argues that judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion although that just leads down a rabbit hole. If one identifies as ethnically of Jewish descent but not religiously jewish, what are they then?

[Ethel mermania]

The thing is though. (Personally I am fine however you want to identify) the body of halakha says you are a jew regardless, as long as your maternal lineage traces Jewish, (or a conversion somewhere in the path).

Personally I think someone who converts to another faith should be automagically out of the tribe, but that is not how it works.

My mother is strongly against the concept of "cultural judaism." In her eyes, she believes once someone stops believing in the faith they are no longer a jew. For example, Jews who are atheist in religious tendencies. Mom would tell you those people cannot be Jews when they don't even believe in God. My dad argues that judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion although that just leads down a rabbit hole. If one identifies as ethnically of Jewish descent but not religiously jewish, what are they then?

Depends on who you ask.

[Autumn Wind]

In the Bible, a great deal of attention is given to patrilineal descent- promises to Abraham andIsaac, the tribes founded by the sons of Jacob, and the houses of David and Omri and so on. One doesn’t read about, say, the Israelites being blessed because they are the children of Sarah or Rachael, specifically.

At what point did matrilineal descent become the determining factor in one’s Jewish heritage?

Did it always work that way, or did it shift over time after the diaspora?

[Prydania]

In the Bible, a great deal of attention is given to patrilineal descent- promises to Abraham andIsaac, the tribes founded by the sons of Jacob, and the houses of David and Omri and so on. One doesn’t read about, say, the Israelites being blessed because they are the children of Sarah or Rachael, specifically.

At what point did matrilineal descent become the determining factor in one’s Jewish heritage?

Did it always work that way, or did it shift over time after the diaspora?

So it's a balancing act. Your mother decides whether you're Jewish or not. Yet what "Tribe" (as in the Twelve Tribes of Israel) you belonged to depended on the father.

The idea for using matrilineal descent to determine Jewishness has its roots in more primitive time circa the Bronze Age. Back then? A father's claim to his children wasn't rock solid. Tribes were always getting caught up in quarrels with neighbouring tribes, and rape was common.
So while you could reasonably assume that a woman's children were the children of her husband? It wasn't guaranteed. Meanwhile you always knew a child was their mother's regardless of who the father was, so matrilineal descent was helpful in determining who was truly an Israelite or not.

And of course it, like so many Bronze Age cultural practices, got codified as religious law as time went on.

[Fahran]

We need some activity here.

So let's go with a fun subject today. I've been reflecting a bit more on the description of Yaakov's marriage to Leah and Rachel in the Tanakh and in Torah more broadly, with particular reverence for the statement that Leah possessed "soft eyes" and Yaakov's seeming resentment towards her due to the manner in which their marriage occurred. I've always held a deeply sympathetic view towards both Leah and Rachel because, despite the faults they exhibit at times and the understandable rivalry between them, for who would want to be less favored by her husband than another woman, even her sister, their overarching personalities suggest virtue of the sort the modern Jewish woman should emulate. It's a bit of a light analysis of the topic and isn't really melded onto the calendar in an official way, but wondering thoughts do what they may. What are y'all's impressions?

Source.

Depends on who you ask.

Two Jews; three opinions. Unless I'm there, then it's like nine opinions because I'm inconsistent and have intellectually monumental mood swings.

[Ethel mermania]

Hopefully everyone had an easy fast, and shana tova to all.



A jewish boy comes home from school and tells his mother he has a part in the school play

Mom asks "what part"
Boy says, I play a jewish husband.
Mother gets all indignant, "go back to the teacher tell her you want a speaking part."

[The Blaatschapen]

Why did Noah, who was very devout, take two pigs on board of the ark?

[Thermodolia]

Why did Noah, who was very devout, take two pigs on board of the ark?

Ya had to sell bacon to the gentiles somehow

[Kowani]

Why did Noah, who was very devout, take two pigs on board of the ark?

Same reason he took the mosquito.
God is a dick.

[Ameriganastan]

Why did Noah, who was very devout, take two pigs on board of the ark?

Maybe he was being sassy cause God flooded the world.