NationStates

Ethel mermania wrote:

Auristania wrote:Ethel, a couple of years back, you said if someone converts to Judaism and later converts to yet another religion, then they are still a Jew. I was surprised at this, but everyone agreed with you.

I learned it from menessa. I thought if you renounced judiasm, that's it your done, apparently not.

A Jew cannot convert away from their Judaism, so it stands to reason that a convert who becomes a Jew cannot then convert away from their Judaism.

Menassa wrote:A Jew cannot convert away from their Judaism, so it stands to reason that a convert who becomes a Jew cannot then convert away from their Judaism.

This has more or less been my impression/opinion as well, though I imagine I can't cite quite as many sources on it.

Also, I'm alive.

Fahran wrote:

Menassa wrote:A Jew cannot convert away from their Judaism, so it stands to reason that a convert who becomes a Jew cannot then convert away from their Judaism.

This has more or less been my impression/opinion as well, though I imagine I can't cite quite as many sources on it.

Also, I'm alive.

Huzzah!

Menassa wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:
I learned it from menessa. I thought if you renounced judiasm, that's it your done, apparently not.

A Jew cannot convert away from their Judaism, so it stands to reason that a convert who becomes a Jew cannot then convert away from their Judaism.

That raises a question. If someone's mother converts to Judaism, does that make them Jewish? Or does the mother need to be Jewish before someone is either born or hasn't reached adulthood yet?

Reikoku wrote:

Menassa wrote:A Jew cannot convert away from their Judaism, so it stands to reason that a convert who becomes a Jew cannot then convert away from their Judaism.

That raises a question. If someone's mother converts to Judaism, does that make them Jewish? Or does the mother need to be Jewish before someone is either born or hasn't reached adulthood yet?

Fascinating question. It covers a few pages of debate in the Talmud.

If someone's mother converts to Judaism and they are an adult they would then need to convert. If they are a child (below 12 or 13) then they may practice Judaism as their parents and when they reach that age they must accept Judaism if they wish to be Jewish, or reject it and be a gentile ... no pressure.

Menassa wrote:

Reikoku wrote:
That raises a question. If someone's mother converts to Judaism, does that make them Jewish? Or does the mother need to be Jewish before someone is either born or hasn't reached adulthood yet?

Fascinating question. It covers a few pages of debate in the Talmud.

If someone's mother converts to Judaism and they are an adult they would then need to convert. If they are a child (below 12 or 13) then they may practice Judaism as their parents and when they reach that age they must accept Judaism if they wish to be Jewish, or reject it and be a gentile ... no pressure.

would that child need to go through the full conversion process?
As in, let's say for instance, a mother converts to Judaism when the child is still a baby (1-2 years) and the child goes through Jewish education (Hebrew day school for instance). Would that child need to 'convert'? Or could they say that they are Jewish?

Rhodevus wrote:

Menassa wrote:Fascinating question. It covers a few pages of debate in the Talmud.

If someone's mother converts to Judaism and they are an adult they would then need to convert. If they are a child (below 12 or 13) then they may practice Judaism as their parents and when they reach that age they must accept Judaism if they wish to be Jewish, or reject it and be a gentile ... no pressure.

would that child need to go through the full conversion process?
As in, let's say for instance, a mother converts to Judaism when the child is still a baby (1-2 years) and the child goes through Jewish education (Hebrew day school for instance). Would that child need to 'convert'? Or could they say that they are Jewish?

If they are a man they would need to be circumcised. IIRC they may need to immerse in a mikvah too (but I may be wrong about that) but while they are not at the age of adulthood they are Jewish for all intents and purposes.

Menassa wrote:

Reikoku wrote:
That raises a question. If someone's mother converts to Judaism, does that make them Jewish? Or does the mother need to be Jewish before someone is either born or hasn't reached adulthood yet?

Fascinating question. It covers a few pages of debate in the Talmud.

If someone's mother converts to Judaism and they are an adult they would then need to convert. If they are a child (below 12 or 13) then they may practice Judaism as their parents and when they reach that age they must accept Judaism if they wish to be Jewish, or reject it and be a gentile ... no pressure.

That makes sense, thanks. I thought it would've been weird otherwise, because I once met a woman who was interested in Judaism but who's son had more in common with the Amalekites.

The talmudic advice column.

Rabbi when will the world end?


I dont know, but it's a good idea to pay your property taxes.

https://jewishstandard.timesofisrael.co ... column-22/

Menassa wrote:

Reikoku wrote:
That raises a question. If someone's mother converts to Judaism, does that make them Jewish? Or does the mother need to be Jewish before someone is either born or hasn't reached adulthood yet?

Fascinating question. It covers a few pages of debate in the Talmud.

If someone's mother converts to Judaism and they are an adult they would then need to convert. If they are a child (below 12 or 13) then they may practice Judaism as their parents and when they reach that age they must accept Judaism if they wish to be Jewish, or reject it and be a gentile ... no pressure.

I'm curious, as I haven't read up on the matter.
My mother comes from a very WASPy family. My father is Jewish. My mother converted to Judaism when she became engaged to my father. She went through the full conversion process.
Then they got married in a Jewish ceremony, and few years later I was born.

I always assumed that meant I was a Jew, no questions asked.

Prydania wrote:

Menassa wrote:Fascinating question. It covers a few pages of debate in the Talmud.

If someone's mother converts to Judaism and they are an adult they would then need to convert. If they are a child (below 12 or 13) then they may practice Judaism as their parents and when they reach that age they must accept Judaism if they wish to be Jewish, or reject it and be a gentile ... no pressure.

I'm curious, as I haven't read up on the matter.
My mother comes from a very WASPy family. My father is Jewish. My mother converted to Judaism when she became engaged to my father. She went through the full conversion process.
Then they got married in a Jewish ceremony, and few years later I was born.

I always assumed that meant I was a Jew, no questions asked.

I am not one to denounce your mother's conversion process over the internet. I'd leave that up to the courts. I can tell you that the state of Israel only recognizes Orthodox conversions though...

Menassa wrote:

Prydania wrote:I'm curious, as I haven't read up on the matter.
My mother comes from a very WASPy family. My father is Jewish. My mother converted to Judaism when she became engaged to my father. She went through the full conversion process.
Then they got married in a Jewish ceremony, and few years later I was born.

I always assumed that meant I was a Jew, no questions asked.

I am not one to denounce your mother's conversion process over the internet. I'd leave that up to the courts. I can tell you that the state of Israel only recognizes Orthodox conversions though...

Not all orthodox conversions, the rabbinate is going nuts on this.

https://www.jta.org/2018/05/31/united-s ... t-stricter

Prydania wrote:

Menassa wrote:Fascinating question. It covers a few pages of debate in the Talmud.

If someone's mother converts to Judaism and they are an adult they would then need to convert. If they are a child (below 12 or 13) then they may practice Judaism as their parents and when they reach that age they must accept Judaism if they wish to be Jewish, or reject it and be a gentile ... no pressure.

I'm curious, as I haven't read up on the matter.
My mother comes from a very WASPy family. My father is Jewish. My mother converted to Judaism when she became engaged to my father. She went through the full conversion process.
Then they got married in a Jewish ceremony, and few years later I was born.

I always assumed that meant I was a Jew, no questions asked.

Depends what your definition of a Jew is.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:

Prydania wrote:I'm curious, as I haven't read up on the matter.
My mother comes from a very WASPy family. My father is Jewish. My mother converted to Judaism when she became engaged to my father. She went through the full conversion process.
Then they got married in a Jewish ceremony, and few years later I was born.

I always assumed that meant I was a Jew, no questions asked.

Depends what your definition of a Jew is.

I think Hitler's was one grandparent.

Menassa wrote:

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Depends what your definition of a Jew is.

I think Hitler's was one grandparent.

LOL well I have two

To The Xenopolis Confederation...well my mother converted in an Orthodox ceremony in Montreal and was a Jew before I conceived. Let alone born. So it seems pretty clear cut on my end.

Menassa wrote:I am not one to denounce your mother's conversion process over the internet. I'd leave that up to the courts. I can tell you that the state of Israel only recognizes Orthodox conversions though...

Well as I said above? My mother’s conversion was Orthodox. Though I’m well aware that this sometimes isn’t up to the standards of the State of Israel’s religious authorities.

As for not “denouncing” my mother’s conversion? I appreciate that, and I admit I have no idea what the proper religious courts would decide. Again, it was an Orthodox conversion but I don’t know if it would meet their criteria or not. As I have never seriously considered immigration to Israel? It hasn’t come up.

Prydania wrote:

Menassa wrote:I think Hitler's was one grandparent.

Menassa wrote:I am not one to denounce your mother's conversion process over the internet. I'd leave that up to the courts. I can tell you that the state of Israel only recognizes Orthodox conversions though...

Well as I said above? My mother’s conversion was Orthodox. Though I’m well aware that this sometimes isn’t up to the standards of the State of Israel’s religious authorities.

As for not “denouncing” my mother’s conversion? I appreciate that, and I admit I have no idea what the proper religious courts would decide. Again, it was an Orthodox conversion but I don’t know if it would meet their criteria or not. As I have never seriously considered immigration to Israel? It hasn’t come up.

If your mother converted through an Orthodox court, like the Beis Din of Montreal before you were born than you are definitely Jewish.

Menassa wrote:

Prydania wrote:Well as I said above? My mother’s conversion was Orthodox. Though I’m well aware that this sometimes isn’t up to the standards of the State of Israel’s religious authorities.

As for not “denouncing” my mother’s conversion? I appreciate that, and I admit I have no idea what the proper religious courts would decide. Again, it was an Orthodox conversion but I don’t know if it would meet their criteria or not. As I have never seriously considered immigration to Israel? It hasn’t come up.

If your mother converted through an Orthodox court, like the Beis Din of Montreal before you were born than you are definitely Jewish.

I very much appreciate your help on the matter. All I knew was that my mother converted before I was born and that it was an Orthodox conversion. I knew nothing else because, as I said, there was no pressing concern to know more. This whole conversation got me thinking, and so I’ve asked my parents about it. That is the court that my mother converted through.

It’s pretty cool know the specifics of the process as well as a bit more to my mother’s story, so thank you again.

Prydania wrote:

Menassa wrote:If your mother converted through an Orthodox court, like the Beis Din of Montreal before you were born than you are definitely Jewish.

I very much appreciate your help on the matter. All I knew was that my mother converted before I was born and that it was an Orthodox conversion. I knew nothing else because, as I said, there was no pressing concern to know more. This whole conversation got me thinking, and so I’ve asked my parents about it. That is the court that my mother converted through.

It’s pretty cool know the specifics of the process as well as a bit more to my mother’s story, so thank you again.

Interesting, thanks for sharing that.

Did your mother say anything specific about the process?

Prydania wrote:

Menassa wrote:If your mother converted through an Orthodox court, like the Beis Din of Montreal before you were born than you are definitely Jewish.

I very much appreciate your help on the matter. All I knew was that my mother converted before I was born and that it was an Orthodox conversion. I knew nothing else because, as I said, there was no pressing concern to know more. This whole conversation got me thinking, and so I’ve asked my parents about it. That is the court that my mother converted through.

It’s pretty cool know the specifics of the process as well as a bit more to my mother’s story, so thank you again.

Can I ask the religious status of your parents/upbringing?

Ethel mermania wrote:Interesting, thanks for sharing that.

Did your mother say anything specific about the process?

She said that when my dad asked her about converting she said she’d do it but if anything about Judaism as a faith struck her as wrong she wouldn’t go through with it. Which she said my dad was fine with.

She also said that as she studied she began to recognize the similarities between certain aspects of Christian theology and Jewish theology, and she began to view Judaism as the “root” of a lot of religious traditions she knew from her youth. She also said that she was impressed with Judaism’s more intellectual approach to theology compared to what she said was Christianity’s emotional approach.

She also said the process involved a lot of studying, which she found fascinating. Nothing in the faith turned her off to it, and the above stuff convinced her to go through with it.

All in all she had positive things to say about the process. That it was interesting, enlightening (she grew up in a WASPy environment so prior to meeting my dad? Her knowledge of Judaism and the Jewish community was limited), and spiritually invigorating. She still considers the rabbi who sponsored her to be one of her most important spriritual influences across the two faiths she’s lived in.

Menassa wrote:Can I ask the religious status of your parents/upbringing?

My parents are both still religious, and funnily enough it’s my mom who has to force my dad to go to temple these days

My mother actually took to Judaism with more enthusiasm than my dad has. Maybe because he was raised in a very religious home? So he wanted to get away from that in some ways? Not to say he’s irreligious. He’s still very much one to observe religious practices, he’s just got a very...liberal...idea of what should/shouldn’t be followed whereas my mom always has to remind him what’s what.

Growing up we ended up being raised Conservative rather than Orthodox for practical reasons. Those being that my dad’s work took us to a small town where we were one of only a few Jewish families and the nearest congregation was a Conservative one a town over.

We kept kosher, though as I said above my dad would break it, and often did if my mom was out for the evening I had a bar mitzvah of course.

All in all a fairly religious upbringing though not one I would describe as Orthodox by any stretch. I’m not as observant as I would like, though I want to get back to that now that my life has settled post-uni.

Prydania wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Interesting, thanks for sharing that.

Did your mother say anything specific about the process?

She said that when my dad asked her about converting she said she’d do it but if anything about Judaism as a faith struck her as wrong she wouldn’t go through with it. Which she said my dad was fine with.

She also said that as she studied she began to recognize the similarities between certain aspects of Christian theology and Jewish theology, and she began to view Judaism as the “root” of a lot of religious traditions she knew from her youth. She also said that she was impressed with Judaism’s more intellectual approach to theology compared to what she said was Christianity’s emotional approach.

She also said the process involved a lot of studying, which she found fascinating. Nothing in the faith turned her off to it, and the above stuff convinced her to go through with it.

All in all she had positive things to say about the process. That it was interesting, enlightening (she grew up in a WASPy environment so prior to meeting my dad? Her knowledge of Judaism and the Jewish community was limited), and spiritually invigorating. She still considers the rabbi who sponsored her to be one of her most important spriritual influences across the two faiths she’s lived in.

Menassa wrote:Can I ask the religious status of your parents/upbringing?

My parents are both still religious, and funnily enough it’s my mom who has to force my dad to go to temple these days

My mother actually took to Judaism with more enthusiasm than my dad has. Maybe because he was raised in a very religious home? So he wanted to get away from that in some ways? Not to say he’s irreligious. He’s still very much one to observe religious practices, he’s just got a very...liberal...idea of what should/shouldn’t be followed whereas my mom always has to remind him what’s what.

Growing up we ended up being raised Conservative rather than Orthodox for practical reasons. Those being that my dad’s work took us to a small town where we were one of only a few Jewish families and the nearest congregation was a Conservative one a town over.

We kept kosher, though as I said above my dad would break it, and often did if my mom was out for the evening I had a bar mitzvah of course.

All in all a fairly religious upbringing though not one I would describe as Orthodox by any stretch. I’m not as observant as I would like, though I want to get back to that now that my life has settled post-uni.

That was great to read, thanks.

My pleasure. It was great to discover myself.

Prydania wrote:

Menassa wrote:Can I ask the religious status of your parents/upbringing?

My parents are both still religious, and funnily enough it’s my mom who has to force my dad to go to temple these days

My mother actually took to Judaism with more enthusiasm than my dad has. Maybe because he was raised in a very religious home? So he wanted to get away from that in some ways? Not to say he’s irreligious. He’s still very much one to observe religious practices, he’s just got a very...liberal...idea of what should/shouldn’t be followed whereas my mom always has to remind him what’s what.

Growing up we ended up being raised Conservative rather than Orthodox for practical reasons. Those being that my dad’s work took us to a small town where we were one of only a few Jewish families and the nearest congregation was a Conservative one a town over.

We kept kosher, though as I said above my dad would break it, and often did if my mom was out for the evening I had a bar mitzvah of course.

All in all a fairly religious upbringing though not one I would describe as Orthodox by any stretch. I’m not as observant as I would like, though I want to get back to that now that my life has settled post-uni.

Sounds similar to many of the other conversions I have heard/assisted with.

Menassa wrote:Fascinating.

Sad, very sad.