Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ

[Vazdaria]

True. Most students involved with the local Hillel chapter are pretty involved with the Jewish community as a whole.

I am trying figure out how to start one where I live.

Post fliers at your local colleges and universities.

[Efraim-Judah]

Non-Jew here, but does anyone else wonder how the sadducees/Karaites aren't the dominant denomination of Judaism? Around the world, polytheist faith was failing (Greco-Roman philosophies with monads and primitive monotheism, Celtic interconnectedness and easy acceptance of Christianity, Indian and Persian zoroastrianism and the Hindi Brahman) to monotheism, and it seems to me like that didn't fully happen with Judaism. Karaites seem (to me at least) to be "truer" monotheists than other variants of Judaism, but they're one of the most obscure sects.

The Sadducees became full of themselves, and the Greco-Roman lifestyle centered around their control of the second Temple. Once the Temple was set aflame by the Zealots who tried to defend it from the Romans all was lost to them especially their power to negotiate a peace with the Romans. Of-course the civil war which was plaguing Jerusalem at the time of its siege didn't help.

As for the Karaites, the main reason they aren't as dominant is due to the power of tradition which binds many sects together. Especially certain theological issues (among ritual ones) the Oral Torah helped explain as the Judaism came from its captivity in Babylon backed to a changed homeland. Interestingly enough I think it is because of the Samaritanism, and their extreme literalism that scared many Jews from adopting a strict "sole scripture" outlook (Keep in mind the Samaritans stuck to the first five books only).

I do not understand the Karaites and those who reject the Talmud outright.....

[Benuty]

The Sadducees became full of themselves, and the Greco-Roman lifestyle centered around their control of the second Temple. Once the Temple was set aflame by the Zealots who tried to defend it from the Romans all was lost to them especially their power to negotiate a peace with the Romans. Of-course the civil war which was plaguing Jerusalem at the time of its siege didn't help.

As for the Karaites, the main reason they aren't as dominant is due to the power of tradition which binds many sects together. Especially certain theological issues (among ritual ones) the Oral Torah helped explain as the Judaism came from its captivity in Babylon backed to a changed homeland. Interestingly enough I think it is because of the Samaritanism, and their extreme literalism that scared many Jews from adopting a strict "sole scripture" outlook (Keep in mind the Samaritans stuck to the first five books only).

I do not understand the Karaites and those who reject the Talmud outright.....

In a sense they compare with those who in the faith of Sunni Islam reject everything after the Quaran. It is understandable that they view the Oral Torah as adding unnecessary things to what they believe was already perfect enough. Does not mean they are right though.

[Menassa]

The Sadducees became full of themselves, and the Greco-Roman lifestyle centered around their control of the second Temple. Once the Temple was set aflame by the Zealots who tried to defend it from the Romans all was lost to them especially their power to negotiate a peace with the Romans. Of-course the civil war which was plaguing Jerusalem at the time of its siege didn't help.

As for the Karaites, the main reason they aren't as dominant is due to the power of tradition which binds many sects together. Especially certain theological issues (among ritual ones) the Oral Torah helped explain as the Judaism came from its captivity in Babylon backed to a changed homeland. Interestingly enough I think it is because of the Samaritanism, and their extreme literalism that scared many Jews from adopting a strict "sole scripture" outlook (Keep in mind the Samaritans stuck to the first five books only).

I do not understand the Karaites and those who reject the Talmud outright.....

Messianics reject the Talmud... as does the Christian Church.

[Efraim-Judah]

I do not understand the Karaites and those who reject the Talmud outright.....

In a sense they compare with those who in the faith of Sunni Islam reject everything after the Quaran. It is understandable that they view the Oral Torah as adding unnecessary things to what they believe was already perfect enough. Does not mean they are right though.

My question to them would be how would we maintain how to do things, and how would we know the parts of Torah that are aren't explained in depth? The Talmud is essential!!!

[Efraim-Judah]

I do not understand the Karaites and those who reject the Talmud outright.....

Messianics reject the Talmud... as does the Christian Church.

Not all Messiancs reject it. There are portions that do seem anti Yeshua, but as a whole it is good.

[Menassa]

Messianics reject the Talmud... as does the Christian Church.

Not all Messiancs reject it. There are portions that do seem anti Yeshua, but as a whole it is good.

The theology of the Talmud aligns with Classical Judaism or Orthodox Judaism. That's pretty anti-Yeshuah... and anti-Christianity/Messianic Christianity as for specifically against Jesus the person the Talmud is not.

[Ethel mermania]

The Sadducees became full of themselves, and the Greco-Roman lifestyle centered around their control of the second Temple. Once the Temple was set aflame by the Zealots who tried to defend it from the Romans all was lost to them especially their power to negotiate a peace with the Romans. Of-course the civil war which was plaguing Jerusalem at the time of its siege didn't help.

As for the Karaites, the main reason they aren't as dominant is due to the power of tradition which binds many sects together. Especially certain theological issues (among ritual ones) the Oral Torah helped explain as the Judaism came from its captivity in Babylon backed to a changed homeland. Interestingly enough I think it is because of the Samaritanism, and their extreme literalism that scared many Jews from adopting a strict "sole scripture" outlook (Keep in mind the Samaritans stuck to the first five books only).

I do not understand the Karaites and those who reject the Talmud outright.....

the talmud is written by man, the torah is gods word

[Efraim-Judah]

Not all Messiancs reject it. There are portions that do seem anti Yeshua, but as a whole it is good.

The theology of the Talmud aligns with Classical Judaism or Orthodox Judaism. That's pretty anti-Yeshuah... and anti-Christianity/Messianic Christianity as for specifically against Jesus the person the Talmud is not.

Not all of the Talmud is anti Yeshua. The majority of it deals nothing with Messiah. There are plenty in the Messianic Community who reject it, but I can't help but question why they do so. Its filled with how to do things and stuff that Torah doesn't fully comment on. Its a good thing. Messianics light shabbat candles which comes from Talmud. They wear skullcaps which comes from the Talmud. The community really should start accepting Talmud.

[Efraim-Judah]

I do not understand the Karaites and those who reject the Talmud outright.....

the talmud is written by man, the torah is gods word

But Torah hints at it quite often.....Yeshua himself understood and accepted quite a substantial amount of Oral Torah.

[Menassa]

The theology of the Talmud aligns with Classical Judaism or Orthodox Judaism. That's pretty anti-Yeshuah... and anti-Christianity/Messianic Christianity as for specifically against Jesus the person the Talmud is not.

Not all of the Talmud is anti Yeshua. The majority of it deals nothing with Messiah. There are plenty in the Messianic Community who reject it, but I can't help but question why they do so. Its filled with how to do things and stuff that Torah doesn't fully comment on. Its a good thing. Messianics light shabbat candles which comes from Talmud. They wear skullcaps which comes from the Talmud. The community really should start accepting Talmud.

Then they would have to start accepting that God is not a trinity, sin is not expatiated through the blood of the Messiah, and many other things that are the antithesis to sound Christian doctrine.

[Efraim-Judah]

Not all of the Talmud is anti Yeshua. The majority of it deals nothing with Messiah. There are plenty in the Messianic Community who reject it, but I can't help but question why they do so. Its filled with how to do things and stuff that Torah doesn't fully comment on. Its a good thing. Messianics light shabbat candles which comes from Talmud. They wear skullcaps which comes from the Talmud. The community really should start accepting Talmud.

Then they would have to start accepting that God is not a trinity, sin is not expatiated through the blood of the Messiah, and many other things that are the antithesis to sound Christian doctrine.

Messiah wasn't prophecized to be Adonai. That is quite Clear. Shema confirms this.
The wage of sin is taken away. We must still commit to the Teshuvah process in order to fully repent from sin

[Menassa]

Then they would have to start accepting that God is not a trinity, sin is not expatiated through the blood of the Messiah, and many other things that are the antithesis to sound Christian doctrine.

Messiah wasn't prophecized to be Adonai. That is quite Clear. Shema confirms this.

That's not true.
And it still doesn't negate my point... the Shema as well as many other verses in the Torah are clearly anti-Trinity such as "No other Gods before me." The literal Hebrew there is Al-Panai "On my face." Do NOT create a God-head the Torah warns.

[Menassa]

Then they would have to start accepting that God is not a trinity, sin is not expatiated through the blood of the Messiah, and many other things that are the antithesis to sound Christian doctrine.

[...]
The wage of sin is taken away. We must still commit to the Teshuvah process in order to fully repent from sin

That's not in the Torah.

[Efraim-Judah]

Messiah wasn't prophecized to be Adonai. That is quite Clear. Shema confirms this.

That's not true.
And it still doesn't negate my point... the Shema as well as many other verses in the Torah are clearly anti-Trinity such as "No other Gods before me." The literal Hebrew there is Al-Panai "On my face." Do NOT create a God-head the Torah warns.

Yes. The trinity is pagan. Shema combined with Bemidbar 23:19 makes it clear, Messiah is NOT G-d.

[Menassa]

That's not true.
And it still doesn't negate my point... the Shema as well as many other verses in the Torah are clearly anti-Trinity such as "No other Gods before me." The literal Hebrew there is Al-Panai "On my face." Do NOT create a God-head the Torah warns.

Yes. The trinity is pagan. Shema combined with Bemidbar 23:19 makes it clear, Messiah is NOT G-d.

So what did you mean when you said that he is 'Adonai.'

[Ethel mermania]

Eats popcorn.

[Efraim-Judah]

Yes. The trinity is pagan. Shema combined with Bemidbar 23:19 makes it clear, Messiah is NOT G-d.

So what did you mean when you said that he is 'Adonai.'

I said he wasn't prophecized to be Adonai, please reread what I said.

[Efraim-Judah]

Eats popcorn.

I am not a fan of popcorn....I somehow always end up with popcorn shell in my teeth...

[Menassa]

So what did you mean when you said that he is 'Adonai.'

I said he wasn't prophecized to be Adonai, please reread what I said.

But you just said that he never will be...are you saying that he is going to be? I have just disproved that... as have you.

[Efraim-Judah]

I said he wasn't prophecized to be Adonai, please reread what I said.

But you just said that he never will be...are you saying that he is going to be? I have just disproved that... as have you.

No. Yeshua sits at the right hand of Adonai. They are distinct from one another.

[Menassa]

But you just said that he never will be...are you saying that he is going to be? I have just disproved that... as have you.

No. Yeshua sits at the right hand of Adonai. They are distinct from one another.

Oh, my bad... I thought that you said 'was' prophecized. My mistake.

Yeshua does what?

http://outreachjudaism.org/psalm110/

[Efraim-Judah]

No. Yeshua sits at the right hand of Adonai. They are distinct from one another.

Oh, my bad... I thought that you said 'was' prophecized. My mistake.

Yeshua does what?

http://outreachjudaism.org/psalm110/

The link you have here states "adonee is never used to refer to G-d" but is instead used to describe a person. If in fact this is refering to Yeshua (which it most likely isn't) that is inline with what I previously stated about Yeshua NOT being Adonai.

But when I stated Yeshua sits at the right hand of Adonai, I refer to the book of Revelation.

[Menassa]

Oh, my bad... I thought that you said 'was' prophecized. My mistake.

Yeshua does what?

http://outreachjudaism.org/psalm110/

The link you have here states "adonee is never used to refer to G-d" but is instead used to describe a person. If in fact this is refering to Yeshua (which it most likely isn't) that is inline with what I previously stated about Yeshua NOT being Adonai.

But when I stated Yeshua sits at the right hand of Adonai, I refer to the book of Revelation.

So what you're saying is that Jesus was never divine at all? Then why worship him?

[Efraim-Judah]

The link you have here states "adonee is never used to refer to G-d" but is instead used to describe a person. If in fact this is refering to Yeshua (which it most likely isn't) that is inline with what I previously stated about Yeshua NOT being Adonai.

But when I stated Yeshua sits at the right hand of Adonai, I refer to the book of Revelation.

So what you're saying is that Jesus was never divine at all? Then why worship him?

Yeshua wasn't divine.

He is the prophecised messiah who appears not only in Torah prophecy, but in our holidays as well.

Worship should be reserved for Adonai alone.