Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ

[Vazdaria]

They aren't strict with anything...

So my earlier assessment of them comparing them to the Jewish version of Unitarian Universalists isn't completely wrong, right?

I'd say that, there is a greater distinction between UU and christianity then when comparing Reform and Orthodox judaism. The latter are closer.

[Evraim]

So my earlier assessment of them comparing them to the Jewish version of Unitarian Universalists isn't completely wrong, right?

You don't have to believe in Jesus to be a universal unitarian. You have to accept a Jewish god to be reform. In theory anyway

This. Unitarian Univeralists are more like Reconstructionist Jews than Reform Jews.

[Sebastianbourg]

You don't have to believe in Jesus to be a universal unitarian. You have to accept a Jewish god to be reform. In theory anyway

This. Unitarian Univeralists are more like Reconstructionist Jews than Reform Jews.

Finally, I have achieved enlightenment.

[Vazdaria]

I'm so sorry to bring the subject back up, but doesn't it seem like Karaites modeled themselves after the Sadducces? I'm not suggesting that they are "modern day Sadducees" but I just can't help but feeling like any Sadducces would have eventually found their way into the movement.

[Ethel mermania]

I'm so sorry to bring the subject back up, but doesn't it seem like Karaites modeled themselves after the Sadducces? I'm not suggesting that they are "modern day Sadducees" but I just can't help but feeling like any Sadducces would have eventually found their way into the movement.

i am going to have to research and get back to you. My understanding of Karism is a rejection of talmudic, or mainstrream judiasm. There wasn't talmudic judiasm in the days of the temple. The saudducees were not antithetic to the standard judiasm of their day

on the other hand they did tend to reject additions that the pharisee's made to the practice of judiams

[Menassa]

I'm so sorry to bring the subject back up, but doesn't it seem like Karaites modeled themselves after the Sadducces? I'm not suggesting that they are "modern day Sadducees" but I just can't help but feeling like any Sadducces would have eventually found their way into the movement.

i am going to have to research and get back to you. My understanding of Karism is a rejection of talmudic, or mainstrream judiasm. There wasn't talmudic judiasm in the days of the temple. The saudducees were not antithetic to the standard judiasm of their day

on the other hand they did tend to reject additions that the pharisee's made to the practice of judiams

Everyone who has chosen heterodoxy has failed.

[Ethel mermania]

i am going to have to research and get back to you. My understanding of Karism is a rejection of talmudic, or mainstrream judiasm. There wasn't talmudic judiasm in the days of the temple. The saudducees were not antithetic to the standard judiasm of their day

on the other hand they did tend to reject additions that the pharisee's made to the practice of judiams

Everyone who has chosen heterodoxy has failed.

i dunno, i do ok

[Menassa]

Everyone who has chosen heterodoxy has failed.

i dunno, i do ok

As groups.

[Evraim]

i dunno, i do ok

As groups.

Reform is still around, though, often, I lament the lack of authenticity in our faith. You and I have discussed this at length in the past. It's why I've contemplated becoming completely Orthodox.

[Menassa]

As groups.

Reform is still around, though, often, I lament the lack of authenticity in our faith. You and I have discussed this at length in the past. It's why I've contemplated becoming completely Orthodox.

However no one exists identifying as a Jew because their Great-great-great-grandparents were reform. How long can you keep from intermarrying? Maybe you... maybe even your children... but what about their children?

[Perotasoa]

As groups.

Reform is still around, though, often, I lament the lack of authenticity in our faith. You and I have discussed this at length in the past. It's why I've contemplated becoming completely Orthodox.

Being Orthodox isn't as bad as people make it. Or even haredi - I've been quite happy with it all my life!

[Ethel mermania]

As groups.

Reform is still around, though, often, I lament the lack of authenticity in our faith. You and I have discussed this at length in the past. It's why I've contemplated becoming completely Orthodox.

You could become conservative. Gay marriage and keepin kosher

[Benuty]

I'm so sorry to bring the subject back up, but doesn't it seem like Karaites modeled themselves after the Sadducces? I'm not suggesting that they are "modern day Sadducees" but I just can't help but feeling like any Sadducces would have eventually found their way into the movement.

Not necessarily.

The Sadducees modeled themselves as "hellenized" Jews they adored Jewish tradition, and culture, but mixed it with Hellenic decadence, lifestyle, and their views on beauty. They ironically took an ultra-strict view of the Tanach thus leading them to accept a monotheistic deity, but without an afterlife (how odd). Of-course the latter had basis in how Epicurus viewed the relationship of man with the Olympian deities (as far off beings who lived in isolated splendor while mans soul extinguished after the moment of death).

[Efraim-Judah]

Hello and Shalom!

I've been following this thread for awhile, off site and so I thought I might as well make a nation and join....I hope Messianics are welcome.....

[Perotasoa]

Hello and Shalom!

I've been following this thread for awhile, off site and so I thought I might as well make a nation and join....I hope Messianics are welcome.....

Hello! You're welcome!!

[Efraim-Judah]

Hello and Shalom!

I've been following this thread for awhile, off site and so I thought I might as well make a nation and join....I hope Messianics are welcome.....

Hello! You're welcome!!

Thanks!

[Evraim]

However no one exists identifying as a Jew because their Great-great-great-grandparents were reform. How long can you keep from intermarrying? Maybe you... maybe even your children... but what about their children?

Actually, you'd be surprised. Reform and Conservative Jews who attend Jewish day schools or summer camps are rather likely to keep to their faith. It's a matter of involvement, not denomination. That said, the Orthodox are generally the most involved with the Jewish community. In Israel, for obvious reasons, Jewish identity would be quite easy to preserve.

Being Orthodox isn't as bad as people make it. Or even haredi - I've been quite happy with it all my life!

I don't see either as bad, though I don't think I'd agree with the Haredim on an number of points.

You could become conservative. Gay marriage and keepin kosher

I still find the conservatives weird. They're like the Dr. Pepper of religious Jews.

[Benuty]

However no one exists identifying as a Jew because their Great-great-great-grandparents were reform. How long can you keep from intermarrying? Maybe you... maybe even your children... but what about their children?

Actually, you'd be surprised. Reform and Conservative Jews who attend Jewish day schools or summer camps are rather likely to keep to their faith. It's a matter of involvement, not denomination. That said, the Orthodox are generally the most involved with the Jewish community. In Israel, for obvious reasons, Jewish identity would be quite easy to preserve.

Being Orthodox isn't as bad as people make it. Or even haredi - I've been quite happy with it all my life!

I don't see either as bad, though I don't think I'd agree with the Haredim on an number of points.

You could become conservative. Gay marriage and keepin kosher

I still find the conservatives weird. They're like the Dr. Pepper of religious Jews.

Eww no, they are the Diet coke .

[Ethel mermania]

However no one exists identifying as a Jew because their Great-great-great-grandparents were reform. How long can you keep from intermarrying? Maybe you... maybe even your children... but what about their children?

Actually, you'd be surprised. Reform and Conservative Jews who attend Jewish day schools or summer camps are rather likely to keep to their faith. It's a matter of involvement, not denomination. That said, the Orthodox are generally the most involved with the Jewish community. In Israel, for obvious reasons, Jewish identity would be quite easy to preserve.

Being Orthodox isn't as bad as people make it. Or even haredi - I've been quite happy with it all my life!

I don't see either as bad, though I don't think I'd agree with the Haredim on an number of points.

You could become conservative. Gay marriage and keepin kosher

I still find the conservatives weird. They're like the Dr. Pepper of religious Jews.

Fair point, but it does seem the comprise you are looking for.

[Evraim]

Fair point, but it does seem the comprise you are looking for.

True. Most students involved with the local Hillel chapter are pretty involved with the Jewish community as a whole.

[Ethel mermania]

Fair point, but it does seem the comprise you are looking for.

True. Most students involved with the local Hillel chapter are pretty involved with the Jewish community as a whole.

You can keep kosher and be completely egalitarian.

[Confederate Ramenia]

I'm so sorry to bring the subject back up, but doesn't it seem like Karaites modeled themselves after the Sadducces? I'm not suggesting that they are "modern day Sadducees" but I just can't help but feeling like any Sadducces would have eventually found their way into the movement.

Non-Jew here, but does anyone else wonder how the sadducees/Karaites aren't the dominant denomination of Judaism? Around the world, polytheist faith was failing (Greco-Roman philosophies with monads and primitive monotheism, Celtic interconnectedness and easy acceptance of Christianity, Indian and Persian zoroastrianism and the Hindi Brahman) to monotheism, and it seems to me like that didn't fully happen with Judaism. Karaites seem (to me at least) to be "truer" monotheists than other variants of Judaism, but they're one of the most obscure sects.

[Neutraligon]

Fair point, but it does seem the comprise you are looking for.

True. Most students involved with the local Hillel chapter are pretty involved with the Jewish community as a whole.

I am trying figure out how to start one where I live.

[Benuty]

I'm so sorry to bring the subject back up, but doesn't it seem like Karaites modeled themselves after the Sadducces? I'm not suggesting that they are "modern day Sadducees" but I just can't help but feeling like any Sadducces would have eventually found their way into the movement.

Non-Jew here, but does anyone else wonder how the sadducees/Karaites aren't the dominant denomination of Judaism? Around the world, polytheist faith was failing (Greco-Roman philosophies with monads and primitive monotheism, Celtic interconnectedness and easy acceptance of Christianity, Indian and Persian zoroastrianism and the Hindi Brahman) to monotheism, and it seems to me like that didn't fully happen with Judaism. Karaites seem (to me at least) to be "truer" monotheists than other variants of Judaism, but they're one of the most obscure sects.

The Sadducees became full of themselves, and the Greco-Roman lifestyle centered around their control of the second Temple. Once the Temple was set aflame by the Zealots who tried to defend it from the Romans all was lost to them especially their power to negotiate a peace with the Romans. Of-course the civil war which was plaguing Jerusalem at the time of its siege didn't help.

As for the Karaites, the main reason they aren't as dominant is due to the power of tradition which binds many sects together. Especially certain theological issues (among ritual ones) the Oral Torah helped explain as the Judaism came from its captivity in Babylon backed to a changed homeland. Interestingly enough I think it is because of the Samaritanism, and their extreme literalism that scared many Jews from adopting a strict "sole scripture" outlook (Keep in mind the Samaritans stuck to the first five books only).

[Vazdaria]

I'm so sorry to bring the subject back up, but doesn't it seem like Karaites modeled themselves after the Sadducces? I'm not suggesting that they are "modern day Sadducees" but I just can't help but feeling like any Sadducces would have eventually found their way into the movement.

Non-Jew here, but does anyone else wonder how the sadducees/Karaites aren't the dominant denomination of Judaism? Around the world, polytheist faith was failing (Greco-Roman philosophies with monads and primitive monotheism, Celtic interconnectedness and easy acceptance of Christianity, Indian and Persian zoroastrianism and the Hindi Brahman) to monotheism, and it seems to me like that didn't fully happen with Judaism. Karaites seem (to me at least) to be "truer" monotheists than other variants of Judaism, but they're one of the most obscure sects.

What in the world do you mean by they're "truer monotheists"?