Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ

[Menassa]

I'm assuming of course that if you don't 'know' about God then you're probably fine. Like Amazonian tribesmen.

Excuse me, got to go and hide the shintai.

Put them on the inside of your doors, so when Hezekiah soldiers come a searchin they'll open the door and inadvertently hide them.

[US-SSR]

Pity. I was thinking alligator scutes might qualify as scales and since it lives more or less in water... Looks like the moving along the ground thing overrides that tho.

Yeah they're not fish so...

I'm gonna go way out there with a theoretical. How if I CRISPR me up an alligator fish? No legs, breathes through gills, lives exclusively underwater but is otherwise exactly like yummy 'gator. Are GMOs like my 'gator fish kosher?

[Len Hyet]

Yeah they're not fish so...

I'm gonna go way out there with a theoretical. How if I CRISPR me up an alligator fish? No legs, breathes through gills, lives exclusively underwater but is otherwise exactly like yummy 'gator. Are GMOs like my 'gator fish kosher?

This is actually an ongoing rabbinical debate, especially re: things like cloned pork.

[Prydania]

1. We still do it targeting Jews, Chabad regularly sends out mitzvah tanks to various neighborhoods in the city. First they ask "are you jewish", if the answer is yes they very much encourage you to participate in rituals such as laying tefillin or during succoth shaking the lulav and estrog. (Which tbh I quite enjoy). If you answer no they say good day.

This one is my mistake XD
I've never considered it proselytizing if you just try to get someone of your own group to be more observant. I just consider that what my aunt does
I know that it's a correct use of the term but it's just a mental block of mine. My mistake.

2. 9th grade history?!? You have my sympathy.

It is greatly appreciated

Using saved to describe a Jewish afterlife is still fundamentally wrong. The only proper way to describe it is almost the opposite of saved. We have no concept of salvation via a belief in the lord. Nor anything that matches a xtian heaven and hell.

It is, yeah, you're right. As I said, it's a short-hand I used, and fell into the habit of using. I probably shouldn't make as much of a habit of it as I have though.

3. To ask what is an idol is a fair question. I would answer an idol is a manifestation of God, not a representation of God. Xtians dont worship the cross as a God, so I would guess they could be righteous. Where a statue of diana was suppose to be her and worshiped as such, so i would say they couldn't be.

The question of idols is interesting to me, because every religion has items that it holds to have some kind of spiritual value. Even Judaism. The menorah, tzitzit, kippah, tefillin, etc...
Now am I saying Judaism has idols? Not at all. That would be ridiculous. I'm merely illustrating that the spectrum of items used in religious worship is a very wide one, and where the demarcation line is between "idol" and "not an idol" can be hard to pinpoint.
As an example. You're right. Christians don't pray to a cross, but some denominations are quite heavy on statues of saints. Which technically aren't worshipped to as divine, but it does skirt close to that line. And the same exists in the other direction. What's an idol vs just something of spiritual value with a significant symbol on it?

I would say, broadly, that if someone's faith holds that a physical item is a physical manifestation of a deity in some way then it is idolatry. IE if someone prays to a statue because they think their god or goddess will only answer them if they do that it's an idol, but something that just has spiritual value that's used in a ceremony but not prayed to wouldn't be an idol.
That said? I'm by no means an expert on this, so I'm happy to listen to those with a more thorough understanding.

I wish to add, I much enjoyed reading your posts in regards to our past persecutions, I thought it was very well put.

Thank you, I appreciate that Hopefully it provides some context for someone.

Also likewise. Your posts throughout this thread have been illuminating.

[Prydania]

I've been searching high and low for the cause or source of the antisemitism of Nazi Germany and I can't find much asides from the fact that many German Jews were associated with the failed Communist revolution of 1918 and the November criminals that were blamed for having lost Germany World War I and set up the Weimar Republic. But I know that antisemitism had a certain logic and justification from the National Socialist point of view. I don't think it was merely for no reason or just because a Jew in Vienna might've denied Hitler admittance into Art school.

You've missed much of medieval Europe then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Je ... Their_Lies

You can draw a line from Luther to Hitler when it comes to German antisemitism (though you can draw a line backwards from Luther to Count Emicho of Leiningen as well).

And what's tragic? Luther's anger at the Jews was primarily motivated by the fact that the Jews wouldn't accept his Reformed church.
Luther had previously been somewhat sympathetic to Jews, seeing them as targets of Catholic persecution. His tone changed, however, once it became clear that Jews weren't flocking to his Reformation movement.

Essentially? He was so full of himself he was convinced that HIS interpretation of Christianity would finally "convert the Jews" and he had a bit of a temper tantrum when that didn't end up being the case.

[US-SSR]

I'm gonna go way out there with a theoretical. How if I CRISPR me up an alligator fish? No legs, breathes through gills, lives exclusively underwater but is otherwise exactly like yummy 'gator. Are GMOs like my 'gator fish kosher?

This is actually an ongoing rabbinical debate, especially re: things like cloned pork.

So I'm guessing if they come up with piggies that don't cleave the hoof observant Jews might be able to eat bacon? Cool. Cheesburgers however...

[Len Hyet]

This is actually an ongoing rabbinical debate, especially re: things like cloned pork.

So I'm guessing if they come up with piggies that don't cleave the hoof observant Jews might be able to eat bacon? Cool. Cheesburgers however...

Well actually Cheeseburgers too might become kosher if the meat or cheese is cloned/grown. Again there will probably be a debate. The prohibition on meat & dairy in the same meal comes from the verse "Do not cook a kid in its mother's milk" which repeats 3 times over the course of the Torah. Because of the repetition it's been interpreted thusly.

• Torah law only prohibits the cooking (and eating) of the meat of a domesticated animal in milk. The rabbis added that one may also not cook (or eat) the meat of a kosher wild animal or bird with milk.13
  
• Torah Law only prohibits the consumption of meat that was cooked with milk. The rabbis added that one may not eat meat and milk together even if they were not cooked together.14
  
• In addition, the rabbis instituted that one must wait a certain amount of time between eating meat and milk.15
  
• The rabbis also decreed that two acquaintances may not share a table if one is eating dairy products and the other is eating meat products.16

So the question becomes is cloned meat still meat? Would halacha still deem it immoral to eat cloned meat and milk? It's going to be an interesting question.

[Pope Joan]

Where is the dividing line when it comes to Ha Aretz? I like the media outlet by that name, btw; it is much more objective than the NYT

but the land is a theological focus, biblical, as well as a very political one.

Where is the line between the two?

[Ethel mermania]

Boycotting Israel should not be prohibited or punished,

This is not about a people, it is about a regime. Many in Israel itself also despise the Likud and its actions and policies

That's lovely, but this is a religious discussion thread, you want to talk about oppressed Palestinians take it to the middle east megathread.

[Pope Joan]

That's lovely, but this is a religious discussion thread, you want to talk about oppressed Palestinians take it to the middle east megathread.[/quote]

Thanks

[Menassa]

So I'm guessing if they come up with piggies that don't cleave the hoof observant Jews might be able to eat bacon? Cool. Cheesburgers however...

Well actually Cheeseburgers too might become kosher if the meat or cheese is cloned/grown. Again there will probably be a debate. The prohibition on meat & dairy in the same meal comes from the verse "Do not cook a kid in its mother's milk" which repeats 3 times over the course of the Torah. Because of the repetition it's been interpreted thusly.

• Torah law only prohibits the cooking (and eating) of the meat of a domesticated animal in milk. The rabbis added that one may also not cook (or eat) the meat of a kosher wild animal or bird with milk.13
  
• Torah Law only prohibits the consumption of meat that was cooked with milk. The rabbis added that one may not eat meat and milk together even if they were not cooked together.14
  
• In addition, the rabbis instituted that one must wait a certain amount of time between eating meat and milk.15
  
• The rabbis also decreed that two acquaintances may not share a table if one is eating dairy products and the other is eating meat products.16

So the question becomes is cloned meat still meat? Would halacha still deem it immoral to eat cloned meat and milk? It's going to be an interesting question.

This is actually an ongoing rabbinical debate, especially re: things like cloned pork.

So I'm guessing if they come up with piggies that don't cleave the hoof observant Jews might be able to eat bacon? Cool. Cheesburgers however...

Anything which comes from a non-kosher animal, is not kosher.

Cloned pigs come from the Somatic Cells of pigs, no? Therefore, they are not kosher.

[Menassa]

Where is the dividing line when it comes to Ha Aretz? I like the media outlet by that name, btw; it is much more objective than the NYT

but the land is a theological focus, biblical, as well as a very political one.

Where is the line between the two?

https://www.ou.org/torah/parsha/rabbi-f ... beginning/

The Torah begins with an account of the creation of the heavens and the earth. Rashi asks an important question. The Torah is a work of law. It presents a system of six hundred thirteen mitzvot. It would seem appropriate for the Torah to concentrate on the objective of teaching us the commandments. Why does the Torah begin with an account of creation?

Rashi provides a response. He explains that Hashem promised the land of Israel to Bnai Yisrael. However, the Jewish people would not occupy an empty region. They would dispossess other nations. The Torah teaches justice. How can we justify the seizure of the land of Israel from these nations?

The account of creation provides the response. The Almighty created the universe. Therefore, He has the right to apportion the earth to various nations. He also has the authority to command the dispossession of these nations.

[Menassa]

You've missed much of medieval Europe then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Je ... Their_Lies

You can draw a line from Luther to Hitler when it comes to German antisemitism (though you can draw a line backwards from Luther to Count Emicho of Leiningen as well).

[...]

You can draw that line back to the book of John. Some would argue, concerning German antisemitism that line extends all the way back to Amalek.

[Len Hyet]

Well actually Cheeseburgers too might become kosher if the meat or cheese is cloned/grown. Again there will probably be a debate. The prohibition on meat & dairy in the same meal comes from the verse "Do not cook a kid in its mother's milk" which repeats 3 times over the course of the Torah. Because of the repetition it's been interpreted thusly.

• Torah law only prohibits the cooking (and eating) of the meat of a domesticated animal in milk. The rabbis added that one may also not cook (or eat) the meat of a kosher wild animal or bird with milk.13
  
• Torah Law only prohibits the consumption of meat that was cooked with milk. The rabbis added that one may not eat meat and milk together even if they were not cooked together.14
  
• In addition, the rabbis instituted that one must wait a certain amount of time between eating meat and milk.15
  
• The rabbis also decreed that two acquaintances may not share a table if one is eating dairy products and the other is eating meat products.16

So the question becomes is cloned meat still meat? Would halacha still deem it immoral to eat cloned meat and milk? It's going to be an interesting question.

So I'm guessing if they come up with piggies that don't cleave the hoof observant Jews might be able to eat bacon? Cool. Cheesburgers however...

Anything which comes from a non-kosher animal, is not kosher.

Cloned pigs come from the Somatic Cells of pigs, no? Therefore, they are not kosher.

It's obviously not that clear cut.

[Menassa]

Anything which comes from a non-kosher animal, is not kosher.

Cloned pigs come from the Somatic Cells of pigs, no? Therefore, they are not kosher.

It's obviously not that clear cut.

The single opinion of a 'Modern Orthodox Rabbi' does not a halachic decision make. I'm not to particular about the individual's credentials but a case of 'lost identity' doesn't really seem that compelling in the face of halachic facts such as, whatever comes from a non-kosher animal is not kosher.

[US-SSR]

So I'm guessing if they come up with piggies that don't cleave the hoof observant Jews might be able to eat bacon? Cool. Cheesburgers however...

Well actually Cheeseburgers too might become kosher if the meat or cheese is cloned/grown. Again there will probably be a debate. The prohibition on meat & dairy in the same meal comes from the verse "Do not cook a kid in its mother's milk" which repeats 3 times over the course of the Torah. Because of the repetition it's been interpreted thusly.

• Torah law only prohibits the cooking (and eating) of the meat of a domesticated animal in milk. The rabbis added that one may also not cook (or eat) the meat of a kosher wild animal or bird with milk.13
  
• Torah Law only prohibits the consumption of meat that was cooked with milk. The rabbis added that one may not eat meat and milk together even if they were not cooked together.14
  
• In addition, the rabbis instituted that one must wait a certain amount of time between eating meat and milk.15
  
• The rabbis also decreed that two acquaintances may not share a table if one is eating dairy products and the other is eating meat products.16

So the question becomes is cloned meat still meat? Would halacha still deem it immoral to eat cloned meat and milk? It's going to be an interesting question.

Ever hear the one about the kosher nymphomaniac? She waited six hours between the butcher and the milkman. bada-BING

[Australian rePublic]

I feel as if "Noahidist" should be an option, I mean, throw, (don't forget, Gentiles outnumber the Jews...) but then again, I wonder if Noahdism should be its own thread.... Just out of curiosity, how many Noahidists are there in NSG?


Jews, can I ask you a question? What is your opinion of Christians, Christianity and Jesus? I know answers will vary significantly, anywhere from Apostasy to False Messiah, to gateway between paganism and Judaism, but what are NS's Jews opinions?

[Ethel mermania]

Well actually Cheeseburgers too might become kosher if the meat or cheese is cloned/grown. Again there will probably be a debate. The prohibition on meat & dairy in the same meal comes from the verse "Do not cook a kid in its mother's milk" which repeats 3 times over the course of the Torah. Because of the repetition it's been interpreted thusly.

• Torah law only prohibits the cooking (and eating) of the meat of a domesticated animal in milk. The rabbis added that one may also not cook (or eat) the meat of a kosher wild animal or bird with milk.13
  
• Torah Law only prohibits the consumption of meat that was cooked with milk. The rabbis added that one may not eat meat and milk together even if they were not cooked together.14
  
• In addition, the rabbis instituted that one must wait a certain amount of time between eating meat and milk.15
  
• The rabbis also decreed that two acquaintances may not share a table if one is eating dairy products and the other is eating meat products.16

So the question becomes is cloned meat still meat? Would halacha still deem it immoral to eat cloned meat and milk? It's going to be an interesting question.

So I'm guessing if they come up with piggies that don't cleave the hoof observant Jews might be able to eat bacon? Cool. Cheesburgers however...

Anything which comes from a non-kosher animal, is not kosher.

Cloned pigs come from the Somatic Cells of pigs, no? Therefore, they are not kosher.

I dont know all the issues but I do remember seeing this a couple months ago.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 1496119791


Edit: I see I was basically ninja'ed.

However if we had non pork vat based meat product where the taste and texture of the meat were artificially created to be pork like. From what I read in the local jew papers that may be OK.

Edit again: to add

and weirdly enough I am not OK with that.

[Ethel mermania]

You can draw a line from Luther to Hitler when it comes to German antisemitism (though you can draw a line backwards from Luther to Count Emicho of Leiningen as well).

[...]

You can draw that line back to the book of John. Some would argue, concerning German antisemitism that line extends all the way back to Amalek.

I blame Paul.

[Ethel mermania]

I feel as if "Noahidist" should be an option, I mean, throw, (don't forget, Gentiles outnumber the Jews...) but then again, I wonder if Noahdism should be its own thread.... Just out of curiosity, how many Noahidists are there in NSG?


Jews, can I ask you a question? What is your opinion of Christians, Christianity and Jesus? I know answers will vary significantly, anywhere from Apostasy to False Messiah, to gateway between paganism and Judaism, but what are NS's Jews opinions?

Xtianity gets real complicated for Jews for. Whole multitude of reasons.
Personally
I like jesus, nice Jewish boy, preached Judaism to Jews. He had nothing to do with outsiders. Rend to ceaser, ceasers, and all that.

Christianity? Yuck.

[Australian rePublic]

Anything which comes from a non-kosher animal, is not kosher.

Cloned pigs come from the Somatic Cells of pigs, no? Therefore, they are not kosher.

I dont know all the issues but I do remember seeing this a couple months ago.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 1496119791


Edit: I see I was basically ninja'ed.

However if we had non pork vat based meat product where the taste and texture of the meat were artificially created to be pork like. From what I read in the local jew papers that may be OK.

Yuck. Kosher or non-Kosher, why would anyone eat that? Good luck convincing people that it's close enough to pork to be considered pork, whilst simultaneously convincing Jews (and Muslims for that matter) that it's not pork. I mean, I would have trouble with either one of those tasks, let alone both

[Australian rePublic]

I feel as if "Noahidist" should be an option, I mean, throw, (don't forget, Gentiles outnumber the Jews...) but then again, I wonder if Noahdism should be its own thread.... Just out of curiosity, how many Noahidists are there in NSG?


Jews, can I ask you a question? What is your opinion of Christians, Christianity and Jesus? I know answers will vary significantly, anywhere from Apostasy to False Messiah, to gateway between paganism and Judaism, but what are NS's Jews opinions?

Xtianity gets real complicated for Jews for. Whole multitude of reasons.
Personally
I like jesus, nice Jewish boy, preached Judaism to Jews. He had nothing to do with outsiders. Rend to ceaser, ceasers, and all that.

Christianity? Yuck.

Hmmmm…. interesting... So, Noahidists?...

[Ethel mermania]

Xtianity gets real complicated for Jews for. Whole multitude of reasons.
Personally
I like jesus, nice Jewish boy, preached Judaism to Jews. He had nothing to do with outsiders. Rend to ceaser, ceasers, and all that.

Christianity? Yuck.

Hmmmm…. interesting... So, Noahidists?...

Rightous gentiles.

[Australian rePublic]

Hmmmm…. interesting... So, Noahidists?...

Rightous gentiles.

Fair point. My original question was whether or not they belong in this thread, and whether or not they deserve a thread of their own

[Ethel mermania]

Rightous gentiles.

Fair point. My original question was whether or not they belong in this thread, and whether or not they deserve a thread of their own

Deserve? Sure why not. That said I don't know if there is much general interest on nationstates.