NATION

PASSWORD

Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What Type of Jew are You?

Orthodox
24
8%
Modern Orthodox
5
2%
Conservative
45
15%
Reform
56
19%
Irreligious
108
36%
Other
45
15%
Karaite
10
3%
Reconstructionist
6
2%
 
Total votes : 299

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Prydania
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Posts: 1297
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Fri May 25, 2018 6:00 pm

Reikoku wrote:Is there a reason that Judaism is an insular faith? It always seemed strange to me as a child to contrast the universalism of the New Testament with the particularism of the Old Testament where non-believers weren't required to convert. Does that mean Judaism is more henotheistic than monotheistic?

The first thing you need to do is get passed the idea of "Abrahamic faiths."
Yes, Christianity and Islam share plenty with Judaism, having both sprung from it. And all share the legacy of Abraham. For the purposes of this discussion, however? You need to consider that connection irreverent.

See, Christianity and Islam are universal faiths, as you've pointed out. Neither applies to a single group, or "nation," of people. They claim universal truths for all of mankind.

Judaism, in its present form, is very much monotheistic. That being said? Its view of both the divine and how that relates to the "nation" has more in common with the "folk" pagan religions that dominated much of the world prior to Christianity and Islam.

See, Judaism in its present form didn't spring from nothingness. Oh sure, you can point to the Babylonian Captivity as the time when modern Judaism began to be codified as a belief system, but that codified ideology was born of something. Simply put? The religion of the Israelites, the forefathers of the Jewish people, was polytheistic.
Israelite paganism evolved from Canaanite paganism, with the Israelite variety seeing the storm god Yahweh supplant El, the traditional head of the pantheon. So Yahweh was still central to worship among pre-Babylonian Exile Israelites. He just wasn't the only god.

In this respect? The Israelite polytheistic religion, which was the immediate forerunner to Judaism, was very much in line with all other "folk" polytheistic faiths. In this world? Everyone worshipped the gods of their nation, and the people in the nation next door worshipped their gods. Your gods were real and served your nation, their gods were real and served their nation. The pagan Israelite faith fit right in with that world view.
Hell, fast forward a few thousand years to see this world view in action. The Romans had Jupiter, the Germanics had Odin. Both a Roman and a Germanic believed the other's chief god existed.

Anyway back to pre-Babylonian Exile polytheistic Judaism. Yahweh is the head of the pantheon, and there are other gods. Then, however, the Babylonians attack. The Israelites are marched off to Babylon in bondage, where they would remain from 597 BCE to 539 BCE. This might seem like a short amount of time, but it had far reaching consequences. Not just for Judaism, but for the world as a whole.

The Israelite leaders realized that the only way their people would retain their distinct cultural identity in a foreign land was to finally codify the Israelite folk religion. Oral stories such as Genesis, the story of Abraham, and the Exodus from Egypt were finally transcribed "definitively" after thousands of years of being passed down orally. The history of the Kingdoms of Israel and Judea were re-cast to remove the importance of the King from the concept of the Israelite "nation."
And finally? All other gods in the pantheon were struck down. Yahweh was elevated from being merely the chief of the pantheon to being the only god. Not just of the Israelite nation, but of all of creation. It's here the concept of the "chosen people" emerged. Yahweh was always depicted as favouring the Israelites. This made sense as the head of the Israelite pantheon, but now it was recast as the Israelites being the chosen people of the one true god.

All of this was done, as I said, to give the captives and their descendent a sense of community and identity that could be maintained even when enslaved in a foreign land.
So when Cyrus and his Persian Empire defeated the Babylonians in 539 CE, allowing the Israelites to return to Judea? Well the old polytheistic Israelite faith was gone. That had gone into the Babylonian Exile. Judaism, as we would recognize it as a "modern" faith, came out.

Now shockingly this didn't change post-Exile Jews' attitudes of the concepts of nation and divinity. Their Israelite ancestors had believed that Yahweh was the god of their nation, and other gods co-exited with Him, both in His pantheon and outside of it. The post-Exile Jews simply modified that to account with the new monotheistic belief system.
Now Yahweh was the one and only god, but only the Jews were chosen to follow His faith. No one else was required to convert, and the "righteous" of "all the nations" will be saved. In this sense we understand the concept of Jews being a "chosen people" to merely be a way to marry the post-Exile monotheism with the pre-Exile understanding that those outside of the nation don't need to be converted.

This attitude continues to this day. Which is why I said that you needed to let go of the "Abrahamic Faiths" idea. Judaism's sense of itself as it relates to "unbelievers" has more in common with Egyptian or Greek or Mesopotamian or Norse polytheism than it does either Christianity or Islam.

And so to finally answer your question? Modern Judaism is very much monotheistic. Plenty of Jewish prayers reference Yahweh as the one true god of the universe, and any Rabbi will tell you that there is only one god. So it certainly isn't henotheistic.
That being said? It's attitudes towards non-Jews is stepped in an old henotheistic world view that predates the Babylonian Exile and remains strong with the faith to this day.
Last edited by Prydania on Fri May 25, 2018 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Fri May 25, 2018 6:05 pm

Menassa wrote:
Reikoku wrote:Is there a reason that Judaism is an insular faith? It always seemed strange to me as a child to contrast the universalism of the New Testament with the particularism of the Old Testament where non-believers weren't required to convert. Does that mean Judaism is more henotheistic than monotheistic?

Judaism's insular by its nature. God chose a specific group of people to do a specific thing. Of course anyone is more then welcome to take up the torch but it's not required.... and as of the past 2000 years, doesn't appear to be worth it.

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Len Hyet
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Fri May 25, 2018 8:37 pm

Prydania wrote:
Reikoku wrote:Is there a reason that Judaism is an insular faith? It always seemed strange to me as a child to contrast the universalism of the New Testament with the particularism of the Old Testament where non-believers weren't required to convert. Does that mean Judaism is more henotheistic than monotheistic?

-snip-

Very cool post, I'd never read a history of our religion like that before.
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Prydania
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Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Fri May 25, 2018 10:48 pm

Len Hyet wrote:
Prydania wrote:-snip-

Very cool post, I'd never read a history of our religion like that before.

Thanks! I’ve been finding the origins behind a lot of our religious customs and tendencies to be fascinating.
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Oil exporting People
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Ex-Nation

Postby Oil exporting People » Fri May 25, 2018 11:50 pm

Nioya wrote:Hey. If a young gentile wanted to learn about judaism, what resources would you guys recommemd?


The Holy Bible.
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Collatis
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Founded: Aug 10, 2014
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Postby Collatis » Tue May 29, 2018 10:27 pm

Len Hyet wrote:
Prydania wrote:-snip-

Very cool post, I’d never read a history of our religion like that before.

If you’d like to learn more about the topic, I highly recommend watching Simon Schama’s The Story of the Jews.

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Prydania
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Tue May 29, 2018 10:39 pm

Collatis wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Very cool post, I’d never read a history of our religion like that before.

If you’d like to learn more about the topic, I highly recommend watching Simon Schama’s The Story of the Jews.

That's a good one.
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Menassa
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Ex-Nation

Postby Menassa » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 pm

Prydania wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Very cool post, I'd never read a history of our religion like that before.

Thanks! I’ve been finding the origins behind a lot of our religious customs and tendencies to be fascinating.

Secular Origins?
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Greater Miami Shores
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:22 pm

Prydania wrote:
Reikoku wrote:Is there a reason that Judaism is an insular faith? It always seemed strange to me as a child to contrast the universalism of the New Testament with the particularism of the Old Testament where non-believers weren't required to convert. Does that mean Judaism is more henotheistic than monotheistic?

The first thing you need to do is get passed the idea of "Abrahamic faiths."
Yes, Christianity and Islam share plenty with Judaism, having both sprung from it. And all share the legacy of Abraham. For the purposes of this discussion, however? You need to consider that connection irreverent.

See, Christianity and Islam are universal faiths, as you've pointed out. Neither applies to a single group, or "nation," of people. They claim universal truths for all of mankind.

Judaism, in its present form, is very much monotheistic. That being said? Its view of both the divine and how that relates to the "nation" has more in common with the "folk" pagan religions that dominated much of the world prior to Christianity and Islam.

See, Judaism in its present form didn't spring from nothingness. Oh sure, you can point to the Babylonian Captivity as the time when modern Judaism began to be codified as a belief system, but that codified ideology was born of something. Simply put? The religion of the Israelites, the forefathers of the Jewish people, was polytheistic.
Israelite paganism evolved from Canaanite paganism, with the Israelite variety seeing the storm god Yahweh supplant El, the traditional head of the pantheon. So Yahweh was still central to worship among pre-Babylonian Exile Israelites. He just wasn't the only god.

In this respect? The Israelite polytheistic religion, which was the immediate forerunner to Judaism, was very much in line with all other "folk" polytheistic faiths. In this world? Everyone worshipped the gods of their nation, and the people in the nation next door worshipped their gods. Your gods were real and served your nation, their gods were real and served their nation. The pagan Israelite faith fit right in with that world view.
Hell, fast forward a few thousand years to see this world view in action. The Romans had Jupiter, the Germanics had Odin. Both a Roman and a Germanic believed the other's chief god existed.

Anyway back to pre-Babylonian Exile polytheistic Judaism. Yahweh is the head of the pantheon, and there are other gods. Then, however, the Babylonians attack. The Israelites are marched off to Babylon in bondage, where they would remain from 597 BCE to 539 BCE. This might seem like a short amount of time, but it had far reaching consequences. Not just for Judaism, but for the world as a whole.

The Israelite leaders realized that the only way their people would retain their distinct cultural identity in a foreign land was to finally codify the Israelite folk religion. Oral stories such as Genesis, the story of Abraham, and the Exodus from Egypt were finally transcribed "definitively" after thousands of years of being passed down orally. The history of the Kingdoms of Israel and Judea were re-cast to remove the importance of the King from the concept of the Israelite "nation."
And finally? All other gods in the pantheon were struck down. Yahweh was elevated from being merely the chief of the pantheon to being the only god. Not just of the Israelite nation, but of all of creation. It's here the concept of the "chosen people" emerged. Yahweh was always depicted as favouring the Israelites. This made sense as the head of the Israelite pantheon, but now it was recast as the Israelites being the chosen people of the one true god.

All of this was done, as I said, to give the captives and their descendent a sense of community and identity that could be maintained even when enslaved in a foreign land.
So when Cyrus and his Persian Empire defeated the Babylonians in 539 CE, allowing the Israelites to return to Judea? Well the old polytheistic Israelite faith was gone. That had gone into the Babylonian Exile. Judaism, as we would recognize it as a "modern" faith, came out.

Now shockingly this didn't change post-Exile Jews' attitudes of the concepts of nation and divinity. Their Israelite ancestors had believed that Yahweh was the god of their nation, and other gods co-exited with Him, both in His pantheon and outside of it. The post-Exile Jews simply modified that to account with the new monotheistic belief system.
Now Yahweh was the one and only god, but only the Jews were chosen to follow His faith. No one else was required to convert, and the "righteous" of "all the nations" will be saved. In this sense we understand the concept of Jews being a "chosen people" to merely be a way to marry the post-Exile monotheism with the pre-Exile understanding that those outside of the nation don't need to be converted.

This attitude continues to this day. Which is why I said that you needed to let go of the "Abrahamic Faiths" idea. Judaism's sense of itself as it relates to "unbelievers" has more in common with Egyptian or Greek or Mesopotamian or Norse polytheism than it does either Christianity or Islam.

And so to finally answer your question? Modern Judaism is very much monotheistic. Plenty of Jewish prayers reference Yahweh as the one true god of the universe, and any Rabbi will tell you that there is only one god. So it certainly isn't henotheistic.
That being said? It's attitudes towards non-Jews is stepped in an old henotheistic world view that predates the Babylonian Exile and remains strong with the faith to this day.

Viva Israel and the Jewish People, Jerusalem is the eternal and sacred capital of Israel and the Jewish People, between 1933 and 1944, at least 12,000 Jewish refuges arrived in Cuba, after Fidel took power at least 20,000 Cuban Jews emigrated from Cuba, today their are only about 1,500 Cuban Jews in Cuba, Cuban Jews are called Jewbans in English and Jubanos in Spanish, Viva Israel and the Jewish People.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... ws_in_Cuba
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater Miami Shores
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Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:23 pm

Prydania wrote:
Reikoku wrote:Is there a reason that Judaism is an insular faith? It always seemed strange to me as a child to contrast the universalism of the New Testament with the particularism of the Old Testament where non-believers weren't required to convert. Does that mean Judaism is more henotheistic than monotheistic?

The first thing you need to do is get passed the idea of "Abrahamic faiths."
Yes, Christianity and Islam share plenty with Judaism, having both sprung from it. And all share the legacy of Abraham. For the purposes of this discussion, however? You need to consider that connection irreverent.

See, Christianity and Islam are universal faiths, as you've pointed out. Neither applies to a single group, or "nation," of people. They claim universal truths for all of mankind.

Judaism, in its present form, is very much monotheistic. That being said? Its view of both the divine and how that relates to the "nation" has more in common with the "folk" pagan religions that dominated much of the world prior to Christianity and Islam.

See, Judaism in its present form didn't spring from nothingness. Oh sure, you can point to the Babylonian Captivity as the time when modern Judaism began to be codified as a belief system, but that codified ideology was born of something. Simply put? The religion of the Israelites, the forefathers of the Jewish people, was polytheistic.
Israelite paganism evolved from Canaanite paganism, with the Israelite variety seeing the storm god Yahweh supplant El, the traditional head of the pantheon. So Yahweh was still central to worship among pre-Babylonian Exile Israelites. He just wasn't the only god.

In this respect? The Israelite polytheistic religion, which was the immediate forerunner to Judaism, was very much in line with all other "folk" polytheistic faiths. In this world? Everyone worshipped the gods of their nation, and the people in the nation next door worshipped their gods. Your gods were real and served your nation, their gods were real and served their nation. The pagan Israelite faith fit right in with that world view.
Hell, fast forward a few thousand years to see this world view in action. The Romans had Jupiter, the Germanics had Odin. Both a Roman and a Germanic believed the other's chief god existed.

Anyway back to pre-Babylonian Exile polytheistic Judaism. Yahweh is the head of the pantheon, and there are other gods. Then, however, the Babylonians attack. The Israelites are marched off to Babylon in bondage, where they would remain from 597 BCE to 539 BCE. This might seem like a short amount of time, but it had far reaching consequences. Not just for Judaism, but for the world as a whole.

The Israelite leaders realized that the only way their people would retain their distinct cultural identity in a foreign land was to finally codify the Israelite folk religion. Oral stories such as Genesis, the story of Abraham, and the Exodus from Egypt were finally transcribed "definitively" after thousands of years of being passed down orally. The history of the Kingdoms of Israel and Judea were re-cast to remove the importance of the King from the concept of the Israelite "nation."
And finally? All other gods in the pantheon were struck down. Yahweh was elevated from being merely the chief of the pantheon to being the only god. Not just of the Israelite nation, but of all of creation. It's here the concept of the "chosen people" emerged. Yahweh was always depicted as favouring the Israelites. This made sense as the head of the Israelite pantheon, but now it was recast as the Israelites being the chosen people of the one true god.

All of this was done, as I said, to give the captives and their descendent a sense of community and identity that could be maintained even when enslaved in a foreign land.
So when Cyrus and his Persian Empire defeated the Babylonians in 539 CE, allowing the Israelites to return to Judea? Well the old polytheistic Israelite faith was gone. That had gone into the Babylonian Exile. Judaism, as we would recognize it as a "modern" faith, came out.

Now shockingly this didn't change post-Exile Jews' attitudes of the concepts of nation and divinity. Their Israelite ancestors had believed that Yahweh was the god of their nation, and other gods co-exited with Him, both in His pantheon and outside of it. The post-Exile Jews simply modified that to account with the new monotheistic belief system.
Now Yahweh was the one and only god, but only the Jews were chosen to follow His faith. No one else was required to convert, and the "righteous" of "all the nations" will be saved. In this sense we understand the concept of Jews being a "chosen people" to merely be a way to marry the post-Exile monotheism with the pre-Exile understanding that those outside of the nation don't need to be converted.

This attitude continues to this day. Which is why I said that you needed to let go of the "Abrahamic Faiths" idea. Judaism's sense of itself as it relates to "unbelievers" has more in common with Egyptian or Greek or Mesopotamian or Norse polytheism than it does either Christianity or Islam.

And so to finally answer your question? Modern Judaism is very much monotheistic. Plenty of Jewish prayers reference Yahweh as the one true god of the universe, and any Rabbi will tell you that there is only one god. So it certainly isn't henotheistic.
That being said? It's attitudes towards non-Jews is stepped in an old henotheistic world view that predates the Babylonian Exile and remains strong with the faith to this day.

Viva Israel and the Jewish People, Jerusalem is the eternal and sacred capital of Israel and the Jewish People, between 1933 and 1944, at least 12,000 Jewish immigrants arrived in Cuba, after Fidel took power at least 20,000 Cuban Jews emigrated from Cuba, today their are only about 1,500 Cuban Jews in Cuba, Cuban Jews are called Jewbans in English and Jubanos in Spanish, Viva Israel and the Jewish people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... ws_in_Cuba
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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Prydania
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Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:34 pm

Menassa wrote:
Prydania wrote:Thanks! I’ve been finding the origins behind a lot of our religious customs and tendencies to be fascinating.

Secular Origins?

Depends on what you mean by secular.
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Kubumba Tribe
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Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:17 am

Assalamu 'Alaikum/Shalom Alekhem!

So I was asking a Jewish person in another thread about if Jews are required to obey the Torah and Talmud. I didn't get a definitive answer yet, so I decided to ask y'all. Are Jews required to obey Jewish Law in the Torah and Talmud? Also, I found this: http://www.jewfaq.org/m/halakhah.htm
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This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:20 am

Kubumba Tribe wrote:Assalamu 'Alaikum/Shalom Alekhem!

So I was asking a Jewish person in another thread about if Jews are required to obey the Torah and Talmud. I didn't get a definitive answer yet, so I decided to ask y'all. Are Jews required to obey Jewish Law in the Torah and Talmud? Also, I found this: http://www.jewfaq.org/m/halakhah.htm

Depends on your sect.

I gave you a definite answer. You just didn’t like it.

In some sects following Jewish law is paramount in others it’s treated more like a guide to live by.
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Kubumba Tribe
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Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:46 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:Assalamu 'Alaikum/Shalom Alekhem!

So I was asking a Jewish person in another thread about if Jews are required to obey the Torah and Talmud. I didn't get a definitive answer yet, so I decided to ask y'all. Are Jews required to obey Jewish Law in the Torah and Talmud? Also, I found this: http://www.jewfaq.org/m/halakhah.htm

Depends on your sect.

I gave you a definite answer. You just didn’t like it.

In some sects following Jewish law is paramount in others it’s treated more like a guide to live by.

Yes, you told me that.
But I want to know what Torah and Talmud say.
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Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:49 am

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Depends on your sect.

I gave you a definite answer. You just didn’t like it.

In some sects following Jewish law is paramount in others it’s treated more like a guide to live by.

Yes, you told me that.
But I want to know what Torah and Talmud say.

That’s not how it works though.
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Len Hyet
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:13 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Depends on your sect.

I gave you a definite answer. You just didn’t like it.

In some sects following Jewish law is paramount in others it’s treated more like a guide to live by.

Yes, you told me that.
But I want to know what Torah and Talmud say.

It's complicated.

Every sect follows different rules, different Halacha. Almost every sect follows the idea that while their interpretation of Judaism is right, nobody else's is really wrong. Which is awkward phrasing but gets the point across.

So the Torah says you must follow the Torah. The Talmud says, "But what does the Torah really say?" The rest of Halacha are different Rabbinical traditions which are mostly different interpretations of the Torah and Talmud.

Generally, Jews are expected to obey the 613 Mitzvot, and, but.

Each sect has its own set of ands, and its own set of buts. For example:

Chabad-Ludavitch. The 613, and the teachings of the Chabad Rebbes, but no peyot and a few other buts.

American-Reform. The 613, but pared down to the really important ones, keep Kosher, observe the Sabbath and Passover, maintain the High Holy Days.
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Kubumba Tribe
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:17 pm

Len Hyet wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:Yes, you told me that.
But I want to know what Torah and Talmud say.

It's complicated.

Every sect follows different rules, different Halacha. Almost every sect follows the idea that while their interpretation of Judaism is right, nobody else's is really wrong. Which is awkward phrasing but gets the point across.

So the Torah says you must follow the Torah. The Talmud says, "But what does the Torah really say?" The rest of Halacha are different Rabbinical traditions which are mostly different interpretations of the Torah and Talmud.

Generally, Jews are expected to obey the 613 Mitzvot, and, but.

Each sect has its own set of ands, and its own set of buts. For example:

Chabad-Ludavitch. The 613, and the teachings of the Chabad Rebbes, but no peyot and a few other buts.

American-Reform. The 613, but pared down to the really important ones, keep Kosher, observe the Sabbath and Passover, maintain the High Holy Days.

Oh ok, thx.
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I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Len Hyet
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Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:21 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:It's complicated.

Every sect follows different rules, different Halacha. Almost every sect follows the idea that while their interpretation of Judaism is right, nobody else's is really wrong. Which is awkward phrasing but gets the point across.

So the Torah says you must follow the Torah. The Talmud says, "But what does the Torah really say?" The rest of Halacha are different Rabbinical traditions which are mostly different interpretations of the Torah and Talmud.

Generally, Jews are expected to obey the 613 Mitzvot, and, but.

Each sect has its own set of ands, and its own set of buts. For example:

Chabad-Ludavitch. The 613, and the teachings of the Chabad Rebbes, but no peyot and a few other buts.

American-Reform. The 613, but pared down to the really important ones, keep Kosher, observe the Sabbath and Passover, maintain the High Holy Days.

Oh ok, thx.

You're welcome, but bear in mind I almost certainly got something in there wrong because I am a bad Jew. I don't keep kosher, I don't observe the sabbath or Passover or the high holy days.
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Fahran
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Fahran » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:23 pm

Honey, I'm home! If you're super Orthodox, you probably shouldn't click this link. I'll probably bring an old school Reform (Conservative) perspective back like it's going out of style. Also, am I allowed to usurp Men's position now that he's never around?
Last edited by Fahran on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:37 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Depends on your sect.

I gave you a definite answer. You just didn’t like it.

In some sects following Jewish law is paramount in others it’s treated more like a guide to live by.

Yes, you told me that.
But I want to know what Torah and Talmud say.

Torah says follow the torah. Talmud says follow torah, and the interpretation of the law in the Talmud.

Each stream of Judaism has a different interpretation of what that means and what is required.
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Prydania
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Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:34 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Depends on your sect.

I gave you a definite answer. You just didn’t like it.

In some sects following Jewish law is paramount in others it’s treated more like a guide to live by.

Yes, you told me that.
But I want to know what Torah and Talmud say.

Judaism places a huge emphasis on analytical analysis of even holy texts. So, as Ethel mermania said, each sect of Judaism will interpret what the Torah and Talmud say differently.

After all, the Talmud is pretty much just a collection of rabbis and scholars arguing about the Torah.
Last edited by Prydania on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Fahran » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:36 pm

Prydania wrote:After all, the Talmud is pretty much just a collection of rabbis and scholars arguing about the Torah.

Leave it to us to keep an argument going for millennia.

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Astrolinium
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Ex-Nation

Postby Astrolinium » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:59 pm

Fahran wrote:
Prydania wrote:After all, the Talmud is pretty much just a collection of rabbis and scholars arguing about the Torah.

Leave it to us to keep an argument going for millennia.


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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:03 pm

Len Hyet wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:Oh ok, thx.

You're welcome, but bear in mind I almost certainly got something in there wrong because I am a bad Jew. I don't keep kosher, I don't observe the sabbath or Passover or the high holy days.

Looks like I got ya beat on one thing Len!
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Len Hyet
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Posts: 10798
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:17 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:You're welcome, but bear in mind I almost certainly got something in there wrong because I am a bad Jew. I don't keep kosher, I don't observe the sabbath or Passover or the high holy days.

Looks like I got ya beat on one thing Len!

Two, I also have a tattoo :p
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On a formerly defunct now re-declared one-man campaign to elevate the discourse of you heathens.
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