American Exceptionalism and History Class

[Republic of Coldwater]

I don't think it's wrong for them to walk out in protest when there's a prospect that they'll be force fed propaganda in indoctrination history classes.

Many countries use propaganda in schools. It increases love for the country. We should tell children the truth but we can skip ugly parts like the Civil Rights movement, the Vietnam War, etc.. We can tell American history but in a positive way and without lying. This will create more nationalism and unity within the nation.

And take away ideas such as civil disobedience, which is an American Value that has saved us from Segregation, a lot of racism, sexism, perpetual war and a hell lot of other things.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I don't think it's wrong for them to walk out in protest when there's a prospect that they'll be force fed propaganda in indoctrination history classes.

Many countries use propaganda in schools. It increases love for the country. We should tell children the truth but we can skip ugly parts like the Civil Rights movement, the Vietnam War, etc.. We can tell American history but in a positive way and without lying. This will create more nationalism and unity within the nation.

And people who think there is absolutely nothing wrong with the country and that there's nothing to be fixed.

Oh wait...

[Scomagia]

I don't think it's wrong for them to walk out in protest when there's a prospect that they'll be force fed propaganda in indoctrination history classes.

Many countries use propaganda in schools. It increases love for the country. We should tell children the truth but we can skip ugly parts like the Civil Rights movement, the Vietnam War, etc.. We can tell American history but in a positive way and without lying. This will create more nationalism and unity within the nation.

There are parts of American history that cannot be told in a positive way without lying. What you propose is whitewashing our sins and faults in an attempt to create a generation of young people who unthinkingly and unquestioningly love their country without accepting or understanding its mistakes. That isn't love, it's blindness and stupidity. A monstrous proposal indeed.

[Neutraligon]

I don't think it's wrong for them to walk out in protest when there's a prospect that they'll be force fed propaganda in indoctrination history classes.

Many countries use propaganda in schools. It increases love for the country. We should tell children the truth but we can skip ugly parts like the Civil Rights movement, the Vietnam War, etc.. We can tell American history but in a positive way and without lying. This will create more nationalism and unity within the nation.

You are trying to skip the civil rights movement, something that shaped our modern day politics and the situations we live in today. That is probably one of the worst ideas I have heard on this thread. Th Civil Rights movement and the laws and judicial precedent that came out of it are central to the America today. You cannot understand the America of today without having gone over that time period, and you can't go over that time period without explaining the ugliness that existed in America.

Should we ignore how women got the right to vote, there was some serious ugliness when it came to that. Should we ignore the civil war, there was massive ugliness there. How about the revolutionary war? Ugliness is a part of history, to ignore it is to deny history.

[Freiheit Reich]

Many countries use propaganda in schools.

We aren't Nazi Germany or North Korea.

China does it as well and the US wants to copy China-Shanghai (China only releases school test scores from their wealthiest city, a smart tactic) because they have the world's highest test scores (because the world thinks there are no Chinese students outside of Shanghai).

If you admire Chinese education (as many top US school administrators do), you should also admire the fact they encourage nationalism in their schools and teach history in a positive way.

[Vamtrl]

We aren't Nazi Germany or North Korea.

China does it as well and the US wants to copy China-Shanghai (China only releases school test scores from their wealthiest city, a smart tactic) because they have the world's highest test scores (because the world thinks there are no Chinese students outside of Shanghai).

If you admire Chinese education (as many top US school administrators do), you should also admire the fact they encourage nationalism in their schools and teach history in a positive way.

How they conquered Tibet, in a positive way...

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Students have a right to unadulterated truth in their education system. And that should mean no biases and no leaving shit out because "It doesn't look good for America!"
Guess gotdammwhat, as soon they get to college everything they thought they knew about American and World history gets shattered. Why are we allowed to do that to students? why are we allowed to tell whole lies and half-truths, and stunt their progress once they get older? Now instead of being able to go "welp this was standard fare in high school, we'll only go over it briefly" we have to reteach everything those kids were taught because the school system outright lied about this shit.

[Republic of Coldwater]

We aren't Nazi Germany or North Korea.

China does it as well and the US wants to copy China-Shanghai (China only releases school test scores from their wealthiest city, a smart tactic) because they have the world's highest test scores (because the world thinks there are no Chinese students outside of Shanghai).

If you admire Chinese education (as many top US school administrators do), you should also admire the fact they encourage nationalism in their schools and teach history in a positive way.

And many young people in the People's Republic of "China" are still very rebellious and access websites such as YouTube and Facebook, which are illegal, showing the failure of the brainwashing.

[Othelos]

We aren't Nazi Germany or North Korea.

China does it as well and the US wants to copy China-Shanghai (China only releases school test scores from their wealthiest city, a smart tactic) because they have the world's highest test scores (because the world thinks there are no Chinese students outside of Shanghai).

If you admire Chinese education (as many top US school administrators do), you should also admire the fact they encourage nationalism in their schools and teach history in a positive way.

I admire facts. Schools should teach facts. Indoctrination won't help solve society's problems or help people get jobs once they're out of school.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

The students have no respect for authority and they are walking out because it is cool to be rebellious. They are just like the hippies in the 1960's.

Truly, your ability to read the minds of others and plumb their deepest motivations is astounding. Now maybe you can tell me where I left my car keys.

[Neutraligon]

We aren't Nazi Germany or North Korea.

China does it as well and the US wants to copy China-Shanghai (China only releases school test scores from their wealthiest city, a smart tactic) because they have the world's highest test scores (because the world thinks there are no Chinese students outside of Shanghai).

If you admire Chinese education (as many top US school administrators do), you should also admire the fact they encourage nationalism in their schools and teach history in a positive way.

...You are aware the schooling system in China is very different from the situation here. Also source for them only releasing it from cities.

The students have no respect for authority and they are walking out because it is cool to be rebellious. They are just like the hippies in the 1960's.

Truly, your ability to read the minds of others and plumb their deepest motivations is astounding. Now maybe you can tell me where I left my car keys.

on top of your head

[United States of The One Percent]

We need to teach the good and bad of American history.

I mean, most Americans will never learn that the Declaration of Independence has a whole section devoted to calling Native Americans subhuman savages. When Americans learn about the Declaration, we can't just learn that we were being heroic and brave by announcing that we were ditching the Crown - we have to learn the bad parts, too. We can't ignore the racist, sexist, and homophobic past of our nation. We need to learn about that to grow from it, and we must also learn about our strengths and positive moments in history.

In "person on the street" situations, a significant proportion of U.S. citizens will say they disagree with many ideas put forward in the Declaration, not to mention the Bill of Rights. I dare say all of them went to school at some point.

[United States of The One Percent]

Many countries use propaganda in schools.

We aren't Nazi Germany or North Korea.

Absolutely not. Those were oligarchies, that is, nations run by elites that are not American.

[Sternberg]

Teaching glossed-over facts about a nation's history - in the name of 'patriotism', 'innocence' or whatever rocks your boat - is being outright academically dishonest to both yourselves and those under your charge. If you want your students to understand the complete history of your nation, you have to examine the historical events (abroad and at home) and political decisions made that guided it at key points.

In this context, both good decisions and bad, the high points and low, need to have equal weight and hearing. Bias in the name of 'extreme national exceptionalism and patriotism' - even if "history is written by the victor" - should have no place in how history should be taught or remembered. It's understandably not a new phenomenon, but it is one that needs to be continually re-examined.

All in all, I'm with the camp of those who walked out.

EDIT:

I can understand that time and subject constraints in a more general class prohibit a thorough teaching of a particular historical period, hence why more general facts might be used. I think what I'm trying to drive at is if your semester unit for, say, Modern History, was on a particular period or subject, all facts - both positive and negative - need to be factored in in order to get the complete picture. I think what these protesting students feared was that a lot of these facts would be glossed-over or 'censored' in line with a particular socio-political view of history.

Justified? Maybe not, but I'd wait to see what the board has to say on what exactly is being examined for 'revision' and how.

[New Chalcedon]

I don't think it's wrong for them to walk out in protest when there's a prospect that they'll be force fed propaganda in indoctrination history classes.

Many countries use propaganda in schools. It increases love for the country.

On false premises. This isn't just about philosophical attachment to the truth, you know - when these kids grow up and find out the hard way that America isn't perfect, they'll be a lot more disillusioned than if they were taught that their country, while beautiful, does have its warts.

We should tell children the truth but we can skip ugly parts like the Civil Rights movement, the Vietnam War, etc..

Why?

Seriously, why?

Not telling your kids about America's fuckups won't mean that those fuckups never happened. And they as adults will have to deal with those fuckups and their consequences, whether they happened at home (see: race relations) or abroad (see: $war). Speaking for myself, I'd much rather that my kids went into the world equipped with actual, trustworthy knowledge of what happened in the past, not some whitewashed bullshit feel-good version. They'll be much more equipped to make decent decisions that way.

We can tell American history but in a positive way and without lying.

Absolutely. And it should be easy enough to highlight the wondrous good deeds in America's history, without pretending that the rest didn't happen. Also, lying by omission is still lying.

This will create more nationalism and unity within the nation.

Not sure whether the first is a good thing - it depends on what kind of nationalism, I'd suppose. As to the whole, however, consider this: Building a consensus on false premises isn't sustainable. Papering over wounds won't make them go away. And if you try, you will only deepen the divides in the nation, as many parents will be passing on to their children stories of what actually happened.

The first step to healing the wounds caused by past misdeeds is to acknowledge them. Always.

[New Chalcedon]

The students have no respect for authority and they are walking out because it is cool to be rebellious. They are just like the hippies in the 1960's.

That's what fascists usually sound like...right up until they get power.

Then they get downright scary.

[Murkwood]

In the theoretical, nationalist world you speak of. In the real world, this is not the case.

Murkwood is in no way an American nationalist. But by golly is he a Zionist.

Exactly. I'm not a nationalist. I'm a patriot. They are two different things.

But by golly is he a Zionist.

Also, I'm putting that in my sig.

[Calisu]

In grade 12 in Canadian high school I took 4 history classes one semester. World History, History of World Religion, American History and Canadian history. All for books were from the same publisher and the American history book was almost twice the size of either World history books. Which is utter crap.

[Freiheit Reich]

Many countries use propaganda in schools. It increases love for the country. We should tell children the truth but we can skip ugly parts like the Civil Rights movement, the Vietnam War, etc.. We can tell American history but in a positive way and without lying. This will create more nationalism and unity within the nation.

You are trying to skip the civil rights movement, something that shaped our modern day politics and the situations we live in today. That is probably one of the worst ideas I have heard on this thread. Th Civil Rights movement and the laws and judicial precedent that came out of it are central to the America today. You cannot understand the America of today without having gone over that time period, and you can't go over that time period without explaining the ugliness that existed in America.

Should we ignore how women got the right to vote, there was some serious ugliness when it came to that. Should we ignore the civil war, there was massive ugliness there. How about the revolutionary war? Ugliness is a part of history, to ignore it is to deny history.

We can state the year when women were given the right to vote and briefly explain that women explained to men why they believed they deserved the right to vote and the men listened to their reasons and decided the women were right. We can simplify things and leave out the bad details.

The Civil War makes the USA look good. We liberated the blacks who were being oppressed by a totalitarian and powerful rebel group known as the Confederate States of America. The Civil War makes the Union look like the heroes (we freed the slaves) and the rebels bad (they kept slaves and assassinated the beloved president). We can focus on Andersonville and other Confederate prisoner of war camps (while ignoring bad Union-run prisons) to make the Conferates look even worse. This make the USA look like the heroes and the south the villains. We don't even have to lie (just not tell the whole truth).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andersonvi ... toric_Site

Revolutionary War-makes the USA look like heroes again for obvious reasons. We already have plenty of positive propaganda in schools about this war, no need for more. Even my college course (the teacher and the textbook) was heavily pro-USA when it came to this war.

Civil Rights Movement could be taught with a positive slant (US govt., the hero, demanded southern state governments, the villains, to give blacks full rights) but this will make southerners angry. Better to ignore it because it widens the racial divides in the USA (already wide enough).

[Angcomnon]

If you live in a nation state saying your a patriot and not a nationalist is like saying that you have love and cultural attachments to your nation (patriotism) without identifying and being attached to your nation (nationalism). Being patriotic without being a nationalist is possible if you lived in a non nation state like the the Austrio-Hungary Empire or the Russian Empire. But in a nation state it's impossible to be a patriot without being a nationalist.

[Kelinfort]

Students have a right to unadulterated truth in their education system. And that should mean no biases and no leaving shit out because "It doesn't look good for America!"
Guess gotdammwhat, as soon they get to college everything they thought they knew about American and World history gets shattered. Why are we allowed to do that to students? why are we allowed to tell whole lies and half-truths, and stunt their progress once they get older? Now instead of being able to go "welp this was standard fare in high school, we'll only go over it briefly" we have to reteach everything those kids were taught because the school system outright lied about this shit.

^

I will admit, APUSH was pretty unbiased compared to my eight grade history class.

[Freiheit Reich]

China does it as well and the US wants to copy China-Shanghai (China only releases school test scores from their wealthiest city, a smart tactic) because they have the world's highest test scores (because the world thinks there are no Chinese students outside of Shanghai).

If you admire Chinese education (as many top US school administrators do), you should also admire the fact they encourage nationalism in their schools and teach history in a positive way.

How they conquered Tibet, in a positive way...

The Chinese news teaches that China liberated Tibet against the western imperialists. If the news openly says this (it is not Colbert styled satire), then I am guessing the same story is told to schoolchildren in China. It is deceitful but brilliant. However, I think lying is wrong, it is better to just not discuss it or simply compare the poverty rates of Tibet in 1949 and now (to show how the Chinese govt. improved the lives of the Tibetan people) as long as the data is factual.

Mao Zedong and peaceful liberation of Tibet

http://english.cntv.cn/20131227/103765.shtml

Mao Zedong and peaceful liberation of Tibet

12-27-2013 15:28 BJT
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Editor's Note: On May 23, 1951, the Agreement of the Central People's Government and the Local government of Tibet on Measures for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet, also known as the 17-Article Agreement was signed in Beijing, declaring the peaceful liberation of Tibet and the unification of China's mainland. It is an epoch-making historical event in Tibet, which had promoted the unity of all ethnic groups in China. On the occasion of the 120th birthday of China's late Chairman Mao Zedong, we present the English version of this article written by Vice President of Tibet Academy of Social Sciences in commemoration of Mao's great contributions to the peaceful liberation of Tibet, which should be honored by all generations of the Chinese people.

Troops into Tibet against western imperialists "the earlier, the better"

Early 1949 saw almost all the provinces and autonomous regions in China liberated by the People's Liberation Army(PLA) under the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party. However, Mao Zedong pointed out that it should not be too rash in resolving the "Tibet issue" because it is the religious area inhabited by ethnic minorities.

In December 1949, on his way to Russia Mao wrote a letter to the Politburo of the Central Government making his final decision that "troops should enter Tibet the earlier, the better" aimed to fight against the western imperialists headed by the Great Britain and the United States and part of Tibet's upper ruling class, who jointly schemed "Tibet independence". At that time, the Tibet local government, or Gaxag wanted to take advantage of the falling regime of the Kuomintang, or China's Nationalist Party while the U.S. attempted to make Tibet as a base to curb the rise of the People's Republic of China.

Therefore, Mao made a wise decision to drive out the imperialists in order to safeguard national unification and territorial integrity by sending troops to Tibet. And the strategy also complied with the urgent need of the patriotic forces in Tibet. The 10th Panchen Lama sent his greetings to Chairman Mao to show his support to the central government of China and call for the liberation of Tibet at an early date. Tibet is an inalienable part of China and the Tibetan people are the important member of the Chinese nation. Therefore, overthrowing the imperialist and feudalist rule in Tibet and safeguarding China's independence and territorial integrity must be realized by a people's troop.

10 Conditions for negotiations with Dalai Lama

The founding of New China changed the framework of international politics, which made the British Empire who had invaded Tibet a long time ago had to recognize the People's Republic of China. And the Indian government who inherited the interests of a former British colony established the diplomatic relations with China in April 1950.

On Jan.18, 1950, the central government of China decided that political means was the best solution to resolve the "Tibet issue", and it would send troops only if necessary. On Feb.25, the central government stated that it would try every possible way to start a negotiation with the Dalai Lama in order to achieve reconciliation. In the meanwhile, it also persuaded the Dalai Lama to break away from the American and British imperialists by asking himself or sending representatives to Beijing for the negotiation. On May 27, Deng Xiaoping, then first general secretary of the Southwest Military Bureau of the PLA drafted the 10 Conditions, or the 10-point Policy for the peaceful liberation of Tibet to the Tibet local Government, designating that the local government of Tibet recognized Tibet as a part of China, helping drive out the imperialist forces and assisting the PLA's entry into Tibet while the central government recognized the current political, religious and military status of Tibet as well as that of the Dalai Lama, and develop Tibet's economy, culture and education in line with the wishes of the Tibetan people, which was highly acclaimed by Mao as well as most of the Tibetan people and the patriotic forces in Tibet's ruling class.

Chamdo Battle leads to peaceful liberation of Tibet 　　

The Chamdo Battle started on Oct.6 and triumphed on 24. It defeated the major forces of the Tibet local authority in Chamdo in eastern Tibet, which also smashed the wishful thinking of the imperialists and the reactionary forces of Tibet's upper ruling class on their resistance against the peaceful liberation of Tibet.

After the battle, the pro-imperialist head of the Tibet local government had to step down and the 17-year-old Dalai Lama came to throne ahead of time. On Dec.19, the Tibet local government split up into two fractions. One fraction stayed in Gaxag, the other led by the Dalai Lama went to Yadong to establish the Yadong Gaxag regime.

On Jan.11, 1951, considering the "Tibet independence" scheme was "hopeless", the Dalai Lama decided to send representatives for the negotiation in Beijing. On May 23, the 17-Article Agreement was signed in a friendly consultative manner.

On 24, Mao received the Tibet representatives in Zhongnanhai, headquarters of the central government and hosted banquet in celebration of the signing of the Agreement. On 30, the 10th Panchen Lama wired the 14th Dalai Lama and expressed his willingness to unite with the Dalai Lama to fulfill the Agreement.

During the negotiation, the Tibet representatives had kept in close contact with the 14th Dalai Lama, who had approved all of the major issues. But the Yadong Gaxag also said it would not give any comments to the Agreement without seeing the formal text.

On July 14, Mao Zedong sent a letter to the Dalai Lama to persuade him to return to Lhasa. In his letter, Mao indicated that he hoped the Dalai Lama would implement the Agreement and assisted the PLA's entry into Tibet. The Dalai Lama responded by saying that he would go back to Lhasa soon. On Oct. 24, 1951, the 14th Dalai Lama sent a telegram to Mao to show his support for the Agreement.

17-Article Agreement leads to bright future of Tibet

The 17-Article Agreement is a historical document and down-to-earth practice initiated by Mao Zedong in resolving the "Tibet issue", which had led to a bright future for Tibet. In accordance with the Agreement, Tibet would fulfill the task of driving out the imperialist forces, conducting social reform and fulfilling the new democratic revolution through peaceful means. First, it aims to safeguard national unification and sovereignty as well as consolidate the national defense. Second, it would liberate the Tibetans from the feudalist serfdom, and carry out the Regional Ethnic Autonomy in order to promote economic development, guarantee the freedom of religious belief, improve people's life and enhance ethnic unity in Tibet.　　

The Agreement has made the framework of China's Tibet policy and provided the basis for solving the problems left behind by the imperialists as well as social transformation. Furthermore, it also establish the policy basis for the treatment of the upper ruling class, attitude toward religion and the ways to change the status quo of backwardness and poverty in Tibet. In particular, it has laid out a foundation for the implementation of the Regional Ethnic Autonomy and the precondition for the establishment of the Tibet Autonomous Region.

History proves that Mao Zedong is a chief architect of the peaceful liberation of Tibet, whose contributions will be recorded and memorized by the Tibetan people.

[Republic of Coldwater]

You are trying to skip the civil rights movement, something that shaped our modern day politics and the situations we live in today. That is probably one of the worst ideas I have heard on this thread. Th Civil Rights movement and the laws and judicial precedent that came out of it are central to the America today. You cannot understand the America of today without having gone over that time period, and you can't go over that time period without explaining the ugliness that existed in America.

Should we ignore how women got the right to vote, there was some serious ugliness when it came to that. Should we ignore the civil war, there was massive ugliness there. How about the revolutionary war? Ugliness is a part of history, to ignore it is to deny history.

We can state the year when women were given the right to vote and briefly explain that women explained to men why they believed they deserved the right to vote and the men listened to their reasons and decided the women were right. We can simplify things and leave out the bad details.

The Civil War makes the USA look good. We liberated the blacks who were being oppressed by a totalitarian and powerful rebel group known as the Confederate States of America. The Civil War makes the Union look like the heroes (we freed the slaves) and the rebels bad (they kept slaves and assassinated the beloved president). We can focus on Andersonville and other Confederate prisoner of war camps (while ignoring bad Union-run prisons) to make the Conferates look even worse. This make the USA look like the heroes and the south the villains. We don't even have to lie (just not tell the whole truth).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andersonvi ... toric_Site

Revolutionary War-makes the USA look like heroes again for obvious reasons. We already have plenty of positive propaganda in schools about this war, no need for more. Even my college course (the teacher and the textbook) was heavily pro-USA when it came to this war.

Civil Rights Movement could be taught with a positive slant (US govt., the hero, demanded southern state governments, the villains, to give blacks full rights) but this will make southerners angry. Better to ignore it because it widens the racial divides in the USA (already wide enough).

This I can agree with, there are moments in US History that shouldn't be so biased that it seems like one side are just evil, terrible people and the other side are great heroes who have done a good deed, but that doesn't mean teaching American Exceptionalism, that means teaching correct history.

For example, the CSA look like some totalitarian evil people when they fought for so many reasons and had a similar form of government that the USA had. We should teach the other side of things and some in between "grays" to ensure that students can form their own opinions instead of the biased opinions of the textbooks

The Revolutionary War, same thing, it is true that we did revolt for Republicanism and against tyranny and high taxes, but we seem to forget that despite the high taxes and tyranny the British they had, they were miles ahead in terms of freedom than any other European Power

In the Civil Rights Movement, MLK is considered the only person involved, when people like Malcom X also made great contributions and helped the Civil Rights Movement, and MLK wasn't entirely good, he allegedly plagiarized speeches from Gahndi and was a child molester by some accounts.

Yes, I agree that we need to teach more objective history, but not brainwash children.

[Freiheit Reich]

China does it as well and the US wants to copy China-Shanghai (China only releases school test scores from their wealthiest city, a smart tactic) because they have the world's highest test scores (because the world thinks there are no Chinese students outside of Shanghai).

If you admire Chinese education (as many top US school administrators do), you should also admire the fact they encourage nationalism in their schools and teach history in a positive way.

...You are aware the schooling system in China is very different from the situation here. Also source for them only releasing it from cities.

Truly, your ability to read the minds of others and plumb their deepest motivations is astounding. Now maybe you can tell me where I left my car keys.

on top of your head

In fairness, I found out that in 2015 China plans to release data from other cities. This will be a better measure of their national education system. The USA is focused more on tests which shows that they admire the Chinese education system (heavy focus on high pressure tests).

http://educationbythenumbers.org/conten ... slips_693/

If the USA is smart, we will only release data from Beverly Hills and then we can be number one in the world and impress other nations.

[United Marxist Nations]

Students have a right to unadulterated truth in their education system. And that should mean no biases and no leaving shit out because "It doesn't look good for America!"
Guess gotdammwhat, as soon they get to college everything they thought they knew about American and World history gets shattered. Why are we allowed to do that to students? why are we allowed to tell whole lies and half-truths, and stunt their progress once they get older? Now instead of being able to go "welp this was standard fare in high school, we'll only go over it briefly" we have to reteach everything those kids were taught because the school system outright lied about this shit.

^

I will admit, APUSH was pretty unbiased compared to my eight grade history class.

Oh yeah, hugely different; the book was told from a quite objective standpoint, and tied in lots of other world events for perspective.