American Exceptionalism and History Class

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You can teach that. I just don't want the promotion of communism in schools.

The lack of sense demonstrated by this post is truly astounding. Gold Star!

Dissertation worthy even. o/

[Scomagia]

I am a history buff. They can find out from other sources.

Most highschoolers aren't history nerds.

It's almost as though they didn't really read your post.

[Othelos]

Oh, so I suppose you also don't mind if I teach that the USSR had some of the hightest GDP growth of all time, doubled the life-expectancy, eliminated illiteracy in 20 years, and conveniently leave out all the sacrifices it made to do so?

You can teach that. I just don't want the promotion of communism in schools.

The USSR wasn't communist.

[United Marxist Nations]

Oh, so I suppose you also don't mind if I teach that the USSR had some of the hightest GDP growth of all time, doubled the life-expectancy, eliminated illiteracy in 20 years, and conveniently leave out all the sacrifices it made to do so?

You can teach that. I just don't want the promotion of communism in schools.

You think that if I taught that, that students wouldn't immediately embrace it as the best fucking idea ever?

[Othelos]

It's almost as though they didn't really read your post.

Yeah, figured haha

[United Marxist Nations]

You can teach that. I just don't want the promotion of communism in schools.

The USSR wasn't communist.

It never claimed to be.

[Geilinor]

You can teach that. I just don't want the promotion of communism in schools.

You think that if I taught that, that students wouldn't immediately embrace it as the best fucking idea ever?

No, because every country that industrialized did the exact same thing.

[United Marxist Nations]

You think that if I taught that, that students wouldn't immediately embrace it as the best fucking idea ever?

No, because I could point you to capitalist countries which did the same.

And which ones are those?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Oh, so I suppose you also don't mind if I teach that the USSR had some of the hightest GDP growth of all time, doubled the life-expectancy, eliminated illiteracy in 20 years, and conveniently leave out all the sacrifices it made to do so?

You can teach that. I just don't want the promotion of communism in schools.

Dude, teaching about communism and how it developed in several countries isn't the same thing as promoting it.

For instance, when it comes to Vietnam, after learning what I did back in college, I can say confidently that it was a huge mistake on our part to try and convert them to capitalism because their culture has always been more communist by default. Meaning that for them accepting communism wasn't that hard and we should have just accepted that given Ho wasn't really a spy of the communists. He just happened to be a Vietnamese Communist, but he wasn't a Soviet-style communist.

[Othelos]

The USSR wasn't communist.

It never claimed to be.

never said it did.

[Geilinor]

No, because I could point you to capitalist countries which did the same.

And which ones are those?

Are you seriously asking me which countries had increases in life expectancy and literacy after industrializing?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Another attempt to whitewash America's less savory moments. Pathetic. Also, American Exceptionalism is horseshit. Being one of the only developed nations that didn't get bombed to shit in WW2 doesn't make you exceptional, it makes you lucky.

Oh good someone said it. I didn't want to unnecessarily hostile, but American exceptionalism really is horseshit.

I dunnow. Seems rather sensible to have gotten the hell away from Europe's fuckery ASAP.

Had that been able to happen in other regions of the globe, the amount of shittiness in history would've gone down rather heavily, most likely and there'd be a greater chance we'd have seen [insert former colony] exceptionalism rise from the ashes.

To answer the OP, I'm not a fan of these programs. However, there is a value in making sure students understand how to actually compare and contrast systems so they realize the value of 'traditional' Western freedoms as opposed to leaving them with laundry lists of where things went wrong because those freedoms weren't applied on racial or other false justification.

[United Marxist Nations]

You think that if I taught that, that students wouldn't immediately embrace it as the best fucking idea ever?

No, because every country that industrialized did the exact same thing.

Oh, every country massively increased their life-expectancy, eliminated illiteracy, and saw some of the biggest GDP growth of all time (during the Great Depression I might add) in just 20 years when they industrialized?

[Kazirstan]

I feel that this glossing over of history and glorifying of America's role in history could be a precursor to what happens in the novel "1984". With the "Department of Truth" editing historical works to fit the party's current stance.

[United Marxist Nations]

And which ones are those?

Are you seriously asking me which countries had increases in life expectancy and literacy after industrializing?

No, I'm asking which ones did it in the massively short amount of time. The USSR industrialized in ten years.

[Olerand]

Oh good someone said it. I didn't want to unnecessarily hostile, but American exceptionalism really is horseshit.

I dunnow. Seems rather sensible to have gotten the hell away from Europe's fuckery ASAP.

Had that been able to happen in other regions of the globe, the amount of shittiness in history would've gone down rather heavily, most likely.

To answer the OP, I'm not a fan of these programs. However, there is a value in making sure students understand how to actually compare and contrast systems so they realize the value of 'traditional' Western freedoms as opposed to leaving them with laundry lists of where things went wrong because those freedoms weren't applied on racial or other false justification.

Sensible to get away from Europe? Maybe. Debatable.

Does that make America or its history "exceptional", or God's chosen? Absolutely not.

[Republic of Coldwater]

This is terrible, we should be advocating for the teaching all of US History, regardless of how bad it is. There should be more support of civil disobedience, more support for these more "rebellious" ideas as they were the ones that ended segregation, they were the ones that ended many bad practices, they were the ones that caused the creation of America in the first god damn place.

[Othelos]

I dunnow. Seems rather sensible to have gotten the hell away from Europe's fuckery ASAP.

Had that been able to happen in other regions of the globe, the amount of shittiness in history would've gone down rather heavily, most likely.

To answer the OP, I'm not a fan of these programs. However, there is a value in making sure students understand how to actually compare and contrast systems so they realize the value of 'traditional' Western freedoms as opposed to leaving them with laundry lists of where things went wrong because those freedoms weren't applied on racial or other false justification.

Sensible to get away from Europe? Maybe. Debatable.

Does that make America or its history "exceptional", or God's chosen? Absolutely not.

Evangelicals get around America not being mentioned in the Bible, by arguing that most of us won't be here because of the rapture.

[Geilinor]

Are you seriously asking me which countries had increases in life expectancy and literacy after industrializing?

No, I'm asking which ones did it in the massively short amount of time. The USSR industrialized in ten years.

Would you rather have 10 years and 20 million deaths or 50 years and fewer deaths due to state brutality? It comes out to about the same, but 50 years allows society more time to adjust to the changes.

[United Marxist Nations]

No, I'm asking which ones did it in the massively short amount of time. The USSR industrialized in ten years.

Would you rather have 10 years and 20 million deaths or 50 years and fewer deaths due to state brutality? It comes out to about the same, but 50 years allows society more time to adjust to the changes.

Time they didn't have.

Also, you illustrated my point perfectly, since the post you started this argument out of was intended to illustrate to RSSS how leaving the bad stuff out leads to a very biased view of things.

[The Two Jerseys]

I'd settle for history classes that didn't teach you the same damn thing every single year.

Yes, we get it, the natives got screwed and slavery was bad. Now can we please learn about things that happened after 1945?

[United Marxist Nations]

How are they supposed to look them up if they don't know that they happened? Most highschoolers aren't history nerds.

I am a history buff. They can find out from other sources.

Considering you call everything you don't like "fascist" or "nazi", no, no you aren't.

[Occupied Deutschland]

This is terrible, we should be advocating for the teaching all of US History, regardless of how bad it is. There should be more support of civil disobedience, more support for these more "rebellious" ideas as they were the ones that ended segregation, they were the ones that ended many bad practices, they were the ones that caused the creation of America in the first god damn place.

You're right.

It's always rather sad to see principles of treason, rebellion and disobedience abandoned in favor of more 'comfortable' values that make people feel somewhat better about their past. America was founded on high treason. That's not something that needs covered-up in history, it's something the national character should find pride in.

If that means some people who think perhaps the treason was unjustified arise...so be it. That treason was partially concerned with the right of people to determine for themselves what was justified and unjustified based on the facts available to them.

In short, treason is a virtue Americans need to be more proud of.

[United Marxist Nations]

I'd settle for history classes that didn't teach you the same damn thing every single year.

Yes, we get it, the natives got screwed and slavery was bad. Now can we please learn about things that happened after 1945?

In TN, we split US history into two classes: one, taken in 8th grade covers from the Revolution to the Civil War, and the second, taken in high school, is from reconstruction to present.

[Greater Weselton]

I am a history buff. They can find out from other sources.

Considering you call everything you don't like "fascist" or "nazi", no, no you aren't.

I love history.