Could the Northeast USA be an independent country?

[America 2104]

If the northeast was independent, it would be a thriving nation.But morally speaking, even with al the money engaged, it wouldn't be good.Thousands of poor people across the other states would suffer, because indeed the richest states would go out.In a union, nothing's perfect.Some are held back, some have a bad economy or poor laws.But remmber, and this is valid for every union across the world, I think : "United we stand, divided we fall".Of course, if you only consider the good done to the natives, it would be fine.But as I said, it would be selfish regarding the other people, and it would be selfish regarding the trust D.C has put in you.Instead of seceding, I think that things can be changed.Give the states more freedom.Plenty of things can be done in Congress.

To sum it up, and that's a little extreme, the northeast would be like an able, healthy person leaving behind a disabled person without his wheelchair, just because pushing the said wheelchair and taking care of the disabled person slowed him down.In that exemple, the good solution that would benefit both person would be to improve technology and find a way for the disabled to walk.of course, it'll take time and money for the able person, but it would make more sense too.That being said, I'm french, so I don't want to meddle with your affairs.

[Jamessonia]

If the northeast was independent, it would be a thriving nation.But morally speaking, even with al the money engaged, it wouldn't be good.Thousands of poor people across the other states would suffer, because indeed the richest states would go out.In a union, nothing's perfect.Some are held back, some have a bad economy or poor laws.But remmber, and this is valid for every union across the world, I think : "United we stand, divided we fall".Of course, if you only consider the good done to the natives, it would be fine.But as I said, it would be selfish regarding the other people, and it would be selfish regarding the trust D.C has put in you.Instead of seceding, I think that things can be changed.Give the states more freedom.Plenty of things can be done in Congress.

To sum it up, and that's a little extreme, the northeast would be like an able, healthy person leaving behind a disabled person without his wheelchair, just because pushing the said wheelchair and taking care of the disabled person slowed him down.In that exemple, the good solution that would benefit both person would be to improve technology and find a way for the disabled to walk.of course, it'll take time and money for the able person, but it would make more sense too.That being said, I'm french, so I don't want to meddle with your affairs.

Not to mention that the majority of the people who think every state outside of the Northeast is crippled happen to live in the Northeast.

[Gun Manufacturers]

So, after seeing the "1 in 4 Americans open to secession" thread, and with many Northeasterners/New Englanders saying it'd be interesting to see what it'd be like if the Northeast was separate from the US. I've been thinking about this recently: could the Northeastern United States go it alone? Should it be its own country?
I'm not saying that I'd even advocate for this, but it's interesting to think about and discuss.

(Disclaimer: IMO it'd be pointless to 'secede' but it is an interesting topic to examine.)

The Northeast is very different from the rest of the United States politically, demographically, and culturally. It is the economic center of the US and would be one of the wealthiest economies in the world. The people are much more liberal. We support multiculturalism.
As a Northeasterner - many of us often feel disconnected from Washington when we have trouble relating to the "gun culture", social conservatism, Evangelicalism in politics, etc. We aren't anti-intellectualism.

Using the most strict definition of the Northeast, let's say that it includes Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania.

- It'd have a population of about ~55.94 million.
- It'd have a GDP of about ~$3.422 trillion, and a GDP per capita of about $61,172.
- The current GDP of the US is $17.3 trillion, with a GDP per capita of about $54,746.
- Without the Northeast, the US' GDP would fall to $13.91 trillion, with a GDP per capita of $44,018. ($17,154 less than an independent Northeast!)
- It'd be the 5th largest economy in the world

The Northeast is far different from the rest of the US. The culture is completely different, the emphasis on urban areas is different, etc. I mean, I'd say we're far closer (politically and culturally) to Canada than to Texas or Alabama.
I imagine that an independent Northeast would be a much fairer society, with an emphasis on social liberalism and multiculturalism. We'd be a secular country, with respect for irreligious people.
We'd probably have comprehensive environmental protection measures like a carbon tax or a cap and trade scheme. We already get significant amounts of our power from renewable sources.
We'd have universal health care. A woman's right to choose would never be taken away, and the rights of the LGBT community would be protected.
We'd follow states like NJ and Rhode Island and provide paid parental/family leave, paid sick leave, etc to all residents.
We'd respect our immigrants and multiculturalism, and actually reform the immigration system.
Our borders would be the US, Canada, and the Atlantic Ocean. No threats at all.
We'd have great schools - for example, Massachusetts, if it were its own country, it'd be ranked within the top 10 countries in the world for education (PISA). We'd have amazing universities (I mean, we have the whole Ivy League, SUNY system, etc).
Our poverty rate would be far lower than the current USA's.
Our obesity rate would be 20-25%.
Our crime rates would be far lower, with far less gun violence.
We don't have a racist culture.
We'd have some of the highest average incomes in the world.
I hate to say it, but the Northeast is almost "held back" in a way by parts of the rest of the country. There are very few areas in which we do not exceed the rest of the country in rankings and statistics. (except for maybe our cold winters)

Politics are one of the biggest things - we've voted Democrat consistently for the past 20 years. We are the most politically liberal areas of the country. Even our Republicans are moderate. (We lack a Tea Party base.)

So, the Northeast is considerably different - and dare I say better - than the rest of the US. (Yankee pride?)

NSG, what do you think? Could the Northeast go it alone as its own country? Should it?

I mean, I don't think we should secede necessarily but if we did, we could definitely thrive. I think that we are definitely more similar to countries like Canada, the UK, Australia, etc rather than states like Texas or Kansas. The biggest thing is that we're far more secular and socially liberal than the rest of the country. Most people here believe in LGBT rights, womens' rights, affirmative action programs, etc, but we're held back by more conservative parts of the country. Same goes for the role of government - we support a welfare state, redistribution of wealth, etc. Gun control is also a big thing. Apart from the rural states of VT and NH, gun ownership isn't really prevalent. We already have some of the strictest gun laws in the country, and some of the lowest rates of gun ownership.
Also I think that if we were independent, we wouldn't have a neoconservative foreign policy.

Secession probably would be pointless, but hey, I wouldn't be upset if it happened. Maybe Canada could annex us or something.

If the Northeast seceded, I'd be out of here before the ink were to dry on the paperwork.

BTW, you're assuming NOTHING would change other than who our leaders are, but I'd imagine there would be a LOT of turmoil due to a split with the US.

[Jamessonia]

So, after seeing the "1 in 4 Americans open to secession" thread, and with many Northeasterners/New Englanders saying it'd be interesting to see what it'd be like if the Northeast was separate from the US. I've been thinking about this recently: could the Northeastern United States go it alone? Should it be its own country?
I'm not saying that I'd even advocate for this, but it's interesting to think about and discuss.

(Disclaimer: IMO it'd be pointless to 'secede' but it is an interesting topic to examine.)

The Northeast is very different from the rest of the United States politically, demographically, and culturally. It is the economic center of the US and would be one of the wealthiest economies in the world. The people are much more liberal. We support multiculturalism.
As a Northeasterner - many of us often feel disconnected from Washington when we have trouble relating to the "gun culture", social conservatism, Evangelicalism in politics, etc. We aren't anti-intellectualism.

Using the most strict definition of the Northeast, let's say that it includes Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania.

- It'd have a population of about ~55.94 million.
- It'd have a GDP of about ~$3.422 trillion, and a GDP per capita of about $61,172.
- The current GDP of the US is $17.3 trillion, with a GDP per capita of about $54,746.
- Without the Northeast, the US' GDP would fall to $13.91 trillion, with a GDP per capita of $44,018. ($17,154 less than an independent Northeast!)
- It'd be the 5th largest economy in the world

The Northeast is far different from the rest of the US. The culture is completely different, the emphasis on urban areas is different, etc. I mean, I'd say we're far closer (politically and culturally) to Canada than to Texas or Alabama.
I imagine that an independent Northeast would be a much fairer society, with an emphasis on social liberalism and multiculturalism. We'd be a secular country, with respect for irreligious people.
We'd probably have comprehensive environmental protection measures like a carbon tax or a cap and trade scheme. We already get significant amounts of our power from renewable sources.
We'd have universal health care. A woman's right to choose would never be taken away, and the rights of the LGBT community would be protected.
We'd follow states like NJ and Rhode Island and provide paid parental/family leave, paid sick leave, etc to all residents.
We'd respect our immigrants and multiculturalism, and actually reform the immigration system.
Our borders would be the US, Canada, and the Atlantic Ocean. No threats at all.
We'd have great schools - for example, Massachusetts, if it were its own country, it'd be ranked within the top 10 countries in the world for education (PISA). We'd have amazing universities (I mean, we have the whole Ivy League, SUNY system, etc).
Our poverty rate would be far lower than the current USA's.
Our obesity rate would be 20-25%.
Our crime rates would be far lower, with far less gun violence.
We don't have a racist culture.
We'd have some of the highest average incomes in the world.
I hate to say it, but the Northeast is almost "held back" in a way by parts of the rest of the country. There are very few areas in which we do not exceed the rest of the country in rankings and statistics. (except for maybe our cold winters)

Politics are one of the biggest things - we've voted Democrat consistently for the past 20 years. We are the most politically liberal areas of the country. Even our Republicans are moderate. (We lack a Tea Party base.)

So, the Northeast is considerably different - and dare I say better - than the rest of the US. (Yankee pride?)

NSG, what do you think? Could the Northeast go it alone as its own country? Should it?

I mean, I don't think we should secede necessarily but if we did, we could definitely thrive. I think that we are definitely more similar to countries like Canada, the UK, Australia, etc rather than states like Texas or Kansas. The biggest thing is that we're far more secular and socially liberal than the rest of the country. Most people here believe in LGBT rights, womens' rights, affirmative action programs, etc, but we're held back by more conservative parts of the country. Same goes for the role of government - we support a welfare state, redistribution of wealth, etc. Gun control is also a big thing. Apart from the rural states of VT and NH, gun ownership isn't really prevalent. We already have some of the strictest gun laws in the country, and some of the lowest rates of gun ownership.
Also I think that if we were independent, we wouldn't have a neoconservative foreign policy.

Secession probably would be pointless, but hey, I wouldn't be upset if it happened. Maybe Canada could annex us or something.

If the Northeast seceded, I'd be out of here before the ink were to dry on the paperwork.

BTW, you're assuming NOTHING would change other than who our leaders are, but I'd imagine there would be a LOT of turmoil due to a split with the US.

So would I.

[Dejanic]

The Northeast part of the USA is by far the nicest region of America, I could definitely envision quite a successful progression nation being build in that region, one which actually invests and fully supports public healthcare, education, etc, a Social Democracy if you will. I'd probably considering hopping over the Atlantic myself.

[Mushet]

Heh Northeast doesn't have a racist culture, suuure

[Gun Manufacturers]

If the Northeast seceded, I'd be out of here before the ink were to dry on the paperwork.

BTW, you're assuming NOTHING would change other than who our leaders are, but I'd imagine there would be a LOT of turmoil due to a split with the US.

So would I.

What state would you go to? I'm trying to decide, and for me, it would definitely be more west of here (most likely midwest or southwest).

[Jamessonia]

So would I.

What state would you go to? I'm trying to decide, and for me, it would definitely be more west of here (most likely midwest or southwest).

Either the southeast, the southwest or the northwest.

[Cetacea]

.
To sum it up, and that's a little extreme, the northeast would be like an able, healthy person leaving behind a disabled person without his wheelchair, just because pushing the said wheelchair and taking care of the disabled person slowed him down.In that exemple, the good solution that would benefit both person would be to improve technology and find a way for the disabled to walk.of course, it'll take time and money for the able person, but it would make more sense too.That being said, I'm french, so I don't want to meddle with your affairs.

Maybe it could form an American Economic Union and force the other countries to take austerity measures and then give state cash to private banks in order to stimulate banker profits

[The Scientific States]

No. The Northeast USA is a very, very important part of the US with a long, unique history, and a thriving community and economy that the US needs.

[Arcov]

Go ahead. The Midwest and West will stop giving you food and water, then.

[Jamessonia]

Go ahead. The Midwest and West will stop giving you food and water, then.

I live in New York and I know I don't get any of my water from the Midwest or West. I don't think a huge proportion of my food comes from there either. The majority of New Yorkers get their water from upstate.

[Arcov]

Go ahead. The Midwest and West will stop giving you food and water, then.

I live in New York and I know I don't get any of my water from the Midwest or West. I don't think a huge proportion of my food comes from there either. The majority of New Yorkers get their water from upstate.

Oh, the food most certainly does. The Midwest and South grow a majority of the country's food. The Northeast by its sheer size is not big enough to farm food to sustain itself, let alone the humongous population there. It can farm some, but not nearly enough.

In addition, while some of the lake states in the Northeast get their water from themselves, not all of them do.

[Jamessonia]

I live in New York and I know I don't get any of my water from the Midwest or West. I don't think a huge proportion of my food comes from there either. The majority of New Yorkers get their water from upstate.

Oh, the food most certainly does. The Midwest and South grow a majority of the country's food. The Northeast by its sheer size is not big enough to farm food to sustain itself, let alone the humongous population there. It can farm some, but not nearly enough.

In addition, while some of the lake states in the Northeast get their water from themselves, not all of them do.

Alright, I'll admit I really don't know a lot about where my food actually comes from. Anyway, why would the Midwest not trade with the Northeast?

[Arcov]

Oh, the food most certainly does. The Midwest and South grow a majority of the country's food. The Northeast by its sheer size is not big enough to farm food to sustain itself, let alone the humongous population there. It can farm some, but not nearly enough.

In addition, while some of the lake states in the Northeast get their water from themselves, not all of them do.

Alright, I'll admit I really don't know a lot about where my food actually comes from. Anyway, why would the Midwest not trade with the Northeast?

Why should it? Secession would cause a huge economic calamity across the rest of the country, even if it wasn't the Northeast, any region seceding would cause a disaster.

Why would the rest of the country encourage secession? Secede, then well stop trading with you. In the long run the rest of the country, although less industrialized, has all the raw resources.

[Jamessonia]

Alright, I'll admit I really don't know a lot about where my food actually comes from. Anyway, why would the Midwest not trade with the Northeast?

Why should it? Secession would cause a huge economic calamity across the rest of the country, even if it wasn't the Northeast, any region seceding would cause a disaster.

Why would the rest of the country encourage secession? Secede, then well stop trading with you. In the long run the rest of the country, although less industrialized, has all the raw resources.

Because the farmers would lose money by not trading with one of the richest portions of the nation?

[Arcov]

Why should it? Secession would cause a huge economic calamity across the rest of the country, even if it wasn't the Northeast, any region seceding would cause a disaster.

Why would the rest of the country encourage secession? Secede, then well stop trading with you. In the long run the rest of the country, although less industrialized, has all the raw resources.

Because the farmers would lose money by not trading with one of the richest portions of the nation?

They've already caused those farmers great misery by seceding in the first place.

Worst come to worse the rest of the country will rally against the NE and pressure, either economically, or by force. The US, contrary to popular belief, does not oppress the states. Things like gay marriage, abortion, welfare etc. are ALL left to the states. There isn't a valid reason to secede other than as a massive middle finger to the rest of the country.

[Cetacea]

I live in New York and I know I don't get any of my water from the Midwest or West. I don't think a huge proportion of my food comes from there either. The majority of New Yorkers get their water from upstate.

Oh, the food most certainly does. The Midwest and South grow a majority of the country's food. The Northeast by its sheer size is not big enough to farm food to sustain itself, let alone the humongous population there. It can farm some, but not nearly enough.

In addition, while some of the lake states in the Northeast get their water from themselves, not all of them do.

I'm sure Canada would be more than happy to increase agricultural exports to New England, thus allowing The Northeast to give a FU to those Midwest farmers

[Havenburgh]

Everyone keeps saying that to seceede its illegal. Well no duh. Did you just suspect the goverment to say "well go on ahead!" Especially after the civil war? Speaking of that, did it stop the confedracy from seceeding?

[Arcov]

Oh, the food most certainly does. The Midwest and South grow a majority of the country's food. The Northeast by its sheer size is not big enough to farm food to sustain itself, let alone the humongous population there. It can farm some, but not nearly enough.

In addition, while some of the lake states in the Northeast get their water from themselves, not all of them do.

I'm sure Canada would be more than happy to increase agricultural exports to New England, thus allowing The Northeast to give a FU to those Midwest farmers

It doesn't have anywhere near the fertile land the Midwest does. The Northeast is not some isolated, industrial juggernaut that you seem to think it is.

[Benuty]

Oh, the food most certainly does. The Midwest and South grow a majority of the country's food. The Northeast by its sheer size is not big enough to farm food to sustain itself, let alone the humongous population there. It can farm some, but not nearly enough.

In addition, while some of the lake states in the Northeast get their water from themselves, not all of them do.

I'm sure Canada would be more than happy to increase agricultural exports to New England, thus allowing The Northeast to give a FU to those Midwest farmers

Frankly it doesn't matter since no one will be alive in the smoldering ruins by 2078 anyway. Well except for Boston of course since they always survive in some form.

[Jamessonia]

Because the farmers would lose money by not trading with one of the richest portions of the nation?

They've already caused those farmers great misery by seceding in the first place.

Worst come to worse the rest of the country will rally against the NE and pressure, either economically, or by force. The US, contrary to popular belief, does not oppress the states. Things like gay marriage, abortion, welfare etc. are ALL left to the states. There isn't a valid reason to secede other than as a massive middle finger to the rest of the country.

I think, for theoretical purposes, we are supposed to assume that the rest of the US is ok with the secession.

[Arcov]

They've already caused those farmers great misery by seceding in the first place.

Worst come to worse the rest of the country will rally against the NE and pressure, either economically, or by force. The US, contrary to popular belief, does not oppress the states. Things like gay marriage, abortion, welfare etc. are ALL left to the states. There isn't a valid reason to secede other than as a massive middle finger to the rest of the country.

I think, for theoretical purposes, we are supposed to assume that the rest of the US is ok with the secession.

Then almost any part of the country could "succeed" if everybody was fine with it. The point is, secession will hurt the economy so much that's an impossibility.

[Greed and Death]

The could, the main drawback they have is without getting food from the Midwest and the Southeast their cost of living would go up significantly. And cost of living is already ridiculous up there.

They would very likely become exactly like Denmark.

[The Two Jerseys]

Heh Northeast doesn't have a racist culture, suuure

The Klan had a resort at the Jersey Shore in the '20s and '30s, and a church formerly affiliated with the Klan still has its headquarters in the state.