Hip hop is ruining black america

[Telemarcia]

Some very interesting and insightful points, OP. I find many lazy white appeal to the kind of face value hip hop that you discussed (rapping about being rich, killing one's enemies etc) why do you think that is?

[Kampfenland]

Blaming hip-hop for the decline of black America is inane and grasping at straws. If people perpetuated the mentality of the music they listened to, I'd be a Satanic serial killer who charges into battle with an axe and summons demons while ranting about WWII history.

The decline of black America is hardly a decline, but a cultural shift that was heavily influenced by poverty, and the natural effects of poverty, high drug use and crime. Whites in poverty suffer the same issues, albeit with a different level of discrimination.

[Mavorpen]

Some very interesting and insightful points, OP. I find many lazy white appeal to the kind of face value hip hop that you discussed (rapping about being rich, killing one's enemies etc) why do you think that is?

Well, I kind of explained this in the OP. It's because the more complex music detailing HOW the artists became noticed and escaped the life of hardship and poverty are outside of the cultural realm of many white listeners. In short, they are more interested in what the rappers have and can do NOW than how they got there, because everyone can easily understand money, power, sex, etc. There is a demand for people to escape and place themselves into the lives of other people, and rappers who brag about those things fulfill the most basic of those desires.

[Slavonian kingdom]

Yes, Hip Hop is ruining black America by spreading this criminal cultures and which makes feel blacks victimized. But it is the faulth of white liberals that are encouraging the media to frewuently release that music. To the whites they force them to adhere to Afro-American culture as it is a kinority while at the same time damaging the black community by spreading this culture from hip hop.

[Roski]

As someone who lives in a city full of blacks, Hip-Hop has very little influence.

I listen to real Hip-Hop all the time, I don't have the gangsta mentality.

The Blacks I find to be worth of respect might listen to Rap, however, don't associate with the "gangsta" mentality.

Now, its the Artists that I find more to blame. Hip-Hop is just music. Rap, is nothing more than music.

Its this feeling of superiority, and cocky-ness, which are only furthur prepetuated by Stereotypes.

White people are also very guilty of this, just saying.

What makes me take my respect away from the "general" black community (the ones who follow this particular stereotype), are when something bad happens to a black person, only when done by a white person, its become world wide news in seconds, and everyone suddenly turns on that white person, despite innocence in the case (See: Trayvon Martin Case, DO NOT SEE: Furgason Case, that police officer is fucking guilty.).

Its those that scream racism over everything, and hold the thug mentality, which sadly holds a very, very large portion of the black american community, that is ruining black America.

(I'm very glad I at least partially read the OP, or I would have ranted something a bit different, and more against the OP)

Uh... question: why are you blaming the artists? I mean, I know that they do deserve a good bit of the blame, but they're successful because the people who, you know, pay them and keep them on their label, see the demand for their music and suck the creativity or focus on their lack of creativity to fulfill said demand.

I know it was a generalization of artists, but I'm not blaming all of them.

I see the music they put out.
Lets compare a "real rapper" to a "realest rapper"

Hopsin, personally one of my favourites, has songs like "Rip your heart out", which is kinda a song where he basically says him and Tech N9NE are the best rappers. It sounds like Rap Battle Material.
However, in songs like "Ill Mind 5" and "Ill Mind 7", the first talks about not doing drugs, not getting pregnant when you can't afford it, and generally slaps down the "Black Stereotype" that is prepetuated by "realest rappers". The second, he talks about not mindlessly following something like the bible, and actually thinking about it, and not being a slave to a book. Those are somewhat good things to teach, as compared to "realest rappers"

"Realest rappers" create songs that tell you to break the law, fuck bitches, treat ladies like fucking dogs, and drink until you are so drunk you can't fucking walk. They also incite racism, and try to make the slow racist tension die down not happen. (Shout out to Kanye). They also tell you its ok to break your religion's rules.

Unforunately, as Hopsin says in "Nocturnal Rainbows", "There ain't no real shit in yo playlist", and there are more that prepetuate bad ideas out into the community, than the ones who do good ones, and the ones who do good ones can barely get a label.

[Mavorpen]

Uh... question: why are you blaming the artists? I mean, I know that they do deserve a good bit of the blame, but they're successful because the people who, you know, pay them and keep them on their label, see the demand for their music and suck the creativity or focus on their lack of creativity to fulfill said demand.

I know it was a generalization of artists, but I'm not blaming all of them.

I see the music they put out.
Lets compare a "real rapper" to a "realest rapper"

Hopsin, personally one of my favourites, has songs like "Rip your heart out", which is kinda a song where he basically says him and Tech N9NE are the best rappers. It sounds like Rap Battle Material.
However, in songs like "Ill Mind 5" and "Ill Mind 7", the first talks about not doing drugs, not getting pregnant when you can't afford it, and generally slaps down the "Black Stereotype" that is prepetuated by "realest rappers". The second, he talks about not mindlessly following something like the bible, and actually thinking about it, and not being a slave to a book. Those are somewhat good things to teach, as compared to "realest rappers"

"Realest rappers" create songs that tell you to break the law, fuck bitches, treat ladies like fucking dogs, and drink until you are so drunk you can't fucking walk. They also incite racism, and try to make the slow racist tension die down not happen. (Shout out to Kanye). They also tell you its ok to break your religion's rules.

Unforunately, as Hopsin says in "Nocturnal Rainbows", "There ain't no real shit in yo playlist", and there are more that prepetuate bad ideas out into the community, than the ones who do good ones, and the ones who do good ones can barely get a label.

First of all, I do commend you on your taste. I also like Hopsin, and his songs do provide insight into bad musical tropes and the people who listen to said bad music, and in a humorous way.

And, I think we have to be very careful here. The "black stereotype" wasn't created by black people. Is it ironically reinforced through bad hip hop artists and black people who DO glorify the "thug" life? Yes. But the fundamental problem here, I feel, is that these stereotypes have roots in racist stereotypes created by, well, racist white people. And historically they've been perpetuated in the media, and when you have that much institutionalized racism, it reaches the point where there are black people who actually take on these stereotypes as being true and then they follow them and allow some white people to point at them and say "Look! We were right about them all along!"

Influential African Americans, including rappers, need to work to be better role models. They need to work on giving to black communities. There is indeed no valid excuse to justify the ignorance that many mainstream rappers display. I just feel we should be careful when discussing the core problems and where they originate from.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Yes, Hip Hop is ruining black America by spreading this criminal cultures and which makes feel blacks victimized. But it is the faulth of white liberals that are encouraging the media to frewuently release that music. To the whites they force them to adhere to Afro-American culture as it is a kinority while at the same time damaging the black community by spreading this culture from hip hop.

Which particular tracks strike you as encouraging a victim mentality?

What evidence do you have that white liberals are encouraging the release of rap music?

How are whites being forced to adhere to African'-American culture?

[Roski]

I know it was a generalization of artists, but I'm not blaming all of them.

I see the music they put out.
Lets compare a "real rapper" to a "realest rapper"

Hopsin, personally one of my favourites, has songs like "Rip your heart out", which is kinda a song where he basically says him and Tech N9NE are the best rappers. It sounds like Rap Battle Material.
However, in songs like "Ill Mind 5" and "Ill Mind 7", the first talks about not doing drugs, not getting pregnant when you can't afford it, and generally slaps down the "Black Stereotype" that is prepetuated by "realest rappers". The second, he talks about not mindlessly following something like the bible, and actually thinking about it, and not being a slave to a book. Those are somewhat good things to teach, as compared to "realest rappers"

"Realest rappers" create songs that tell you to break the law, fuck bitches, treat ladies like fucking dogs, and drink until you are so drunk you can't fucking walk. They also incite racism, and try to make the slow racist tension die down not happen. (Shout out to Kanye). They also tell you its ok to break your religion's rules.

Unforunately, as Hopsin says in "Nocturnal Rainbows", "There ain't no real shit in yo playlist", and there are more that prepetuate bad ideas out into the community, than the ones who do good ones, and the ones who do good ones can barely get a label.

First of all, I do commend you on your taste. I also like Hopsin, and his songs do provide insight into bad musical tropes and the people who listen to said bad music, and in a humorous way.

And, I think we have to be very careful here. The "black stereotype" wasn't created by black people. Is it ironically reinforced through bad hip hop artists and black people who DO glorify the "thug" life? Yes. But the fundamental problem here, I feel, is that these stereotypes have roots in racist stereotypes created by, well, racist white people. And historically they've been perpetuated in the media, and when you have that much institutionalized racism, it reaches the point where there are black people who actually take on these stereotypes as being true and then they follow them and allow some white people to point at them and say "Look! We were right about them all along!"

Influential African Americans, including rappers, need to work to be better role models. They need to work on giving to black communities. There is indeed no valid excuse to justify the ignorance that many mainstream rappers display. I just feel we should be careful when discussing the core problems and where they originate from.

Precisely this.

[Greater Weselton]

Music used to be much better.

[Farnhamia]

Music used to be much better.

That's always true.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Some very interesting and insightful points, OP. I find many lazy white appeal to the kind of face value hip hop that you discussed (rapping about being rich, killing one's enemies etc) why do you think that is?

Well, I kind of explained this in the OP. It's because the more complex music detailing HOW the artists became noticed and escaped the life of hardship and poverty are outside of the cultural realm of many white listeners. In short, they are more interested in what the rappers have and can do NOW than how they got there, because everyone can easily understand money, power, sex, etc. There is a demand for people to escape and place themselves into the lives of other people, and rappers who brag about those things fulfill the most basic of those desires.

As a Latino I get this.

My mother is Mexican and as such I have become acclimated to her culture a bit. In Mexico, especially the North, there's these genre called "Narco-Corridos" which would be a combination of lyrical blues and folk Mexican music. It's like hip-hop, except instead of idolizing thugs it idolizes the cartels. Surprisingly enough it sells.It sells a lot of discs and they are extremely popular among Mexican people up north.

Now, why is this relevant to your point? Because, I've listened to hip-hop and rap a bit, and I have the slightest hint at that everything about black music stems from the blues culture back when people used to sit with a guitar and sing a story about the struggles of one person or a group of people. Rock is exactly how it began, and then its lyrics became more vapid.

I'd not say that hip hop is ruining black america, but the expectation that hip hop should be mainstream is killing hip hop as an art form akin to the blues.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'm not a fan and I truly don't know enough, but it seems that some people do bring some negatives to mainstream culture that stem from what hey hear in some hip hop. But is it ruining black culture? Nope. I don't think it is. For every fan that upholds values that come from it, and that can seem negative, there are many others who just enjoy it as another music genre, and nothing more.

Much like rap, hip hop has also been used to bring forth and discuss valid social problems that may not have seen any interest in them or seen the light of day had hip hop not been there to say "hey, this is happening and it's fucked up and we should try to do something to fix it".

[Slavonian kingdom]

Which particular tracks strike you as encouraging a victim mentality?

What evidence do you have that white liberals are encouraging the release of rap music?

How are whites being forced to adhere to African'-American culture?

1. The message of this gangster music is generally that becuase of poverty and racism blacks are turning into crime. So, yes hip hop is spreading this victimising mentality among blacks that they are by default peope uncapable to earn money on normal way.

2. Well it is highly unlikely that a Republican would be a fan of this multi-kulti minority inventions

3. When you are sourounded with white people that considered it cool (also progresives) who dominate the media, it is hard to resist when they constantly play hip hop.

[The Fascist American Empire]

I may not like hip hop, but the idea that any form of music is "ruining" anybody is ignorant. Unless we're talking about Justin Bieber and/or Miley Cyrus. Or maybe Vanilla Ice. That's pretty much the only "ruining" music out there.

[Mavorpen]

Well, I kind of explained this in the OP. It's because the more complex music detailing HOW the artists became noticed and escaped the life of hardship and poverty are outside of the cultural realm of many white listeners. In short, they are more interested in what the rappers have and can do NOW than how they got there, because everyone can easily understand money, power, sex, etc. There is a demand for people to escape and place themselves into the lives of other people, and rappers who brag about those things fulfill the most basic of those desires.

As a Latino I get this.

My mother is Mexican and as such I have become acclimated to her culture a bit. In Mexico, especially the North, there's these genre called "Narco-Corridos" which would be a combination of lyrical blues and folk Mexican music. It's like hip-hop, except instead of idolizing thugs it idolizes the cartels. Surprisingly enough it sells.It sells a lot of discs and they are extremely popular among Mexican people up north.

Now, why is this relevant to your point? Because, I've listened to hip-hop and rap a bit, and I have the slightest hint at that everything about black music stems from the blues culture back when people used to sit with a guitar and sing a story about the struggles of one person or a group of people. Rock is exactly how it began, and then its lyrics became more vapid.

I'd not say that hip hop is ruining black america, but the expectation that hip hop should be mainstream is killing hip hop as an art form akin to the blues.

The part in red is more or less red. The music that has evolved over the years and were pioneered by black artists all have some ground in African music. And that music was brought to America by slaves. The slaves combined African music and styles and created songs that often served to lift the moods of the slaves singing them. And eventually that did, as you say, lead to music like the Blues. In the end, these musical styles are more or less about expressing social realities the artist and their group faces. And it's difficult for people outside of that group to identify with it.

[Roski]

Which particular tracks strike you as encouraging a victim mentality?

What evidence do you have that white liberals are encouraging the release of rap music?

How are whites being forced to adhere to African'-American culture?

1. The message of this gangster music is generally that becuase of poverty and racism blacks are turning into crime. So, yes hip hop is spreading this victimising mentality among blacks that they are by default peope uncapable to earn money on normal way.

2. Well it is highly unlikely that a Republican would be a fan of this multi-kulti minority inventions

3. When you are sourounded with white people that considered it cool (also progresives) who dominate the media, it is hard to resist when they constantly play hip hop.

1: Some artist create songs that do that, but not all songs do that. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPHHudm0NTY

2: I'm not a liberal and I love rap music. Broke that stereotype.

3: Last time a "Liberal" media source played "Rap Music", they got in lots of trouble. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIcHounLZhY

[Mavorpen]

1. The message of this gangster music is generally that becuase of poverty and racism blacks are turning into crime. So, yes hip hop is spreading this victimising mentality among blacks that they are by default peope uncapable to earn money on normal way.

That's not a victimization mentality. That's called being aware of reality. Poverty and racism ARE responsible for the major problems facing black people.

2. Well it is highly unlikely that a Republican would be a fan of this multi-kulti minority inventions

Are Republicans fans of rock and roll, country, blues, jazz, etc? Because, you know, they all have significant black influence.

[Alevuss]

The decline of black America has more to do with drugs, the thug culture, and most importantly the breakdown of the black family. Hip hop is just music.

Referring to it as "just music" ignores that virtually regardless the sort of information a piece of media , it can still have an influence on society. The possibility for this is much greater within hip-hop, at one point having a strong grassroots relationship with the largely disenfranchised, largely black population of America. That image, associating a concept of "common black-ness" with the hip-hop genre, still holds to this day; never mind the validity of that image.

Having popular white figures within the genre (i.e. Iggy Azalea, The Beastie Boys, Macklemore, etc.) gives some amount of control to White people (not just Americans) over the public image that is held of Black people. Through popularizing a genre, stripping it down to the stereotypical images associated with black people, the grassroots connection is scarcely visible to the average listener.*

The result is presenting groups as more other and isolated than they actually are. Hence, referring to hip-hop as "just music" would be like referring to the Bible as "just a book", or "Der Fuehrer's Face" as "just a movie". Regardless of whether you consider these works to be legitimate or fabricated, they have had a bearing on many people's lives and have, at one point in history or another, have influenced people's ideas about morality and other groups of people.

Plus, there's also the popular idea that emotion is more of a centerpiece in music than other media. There's also the fact that most songs from the West are about 3 to 4 minutes long and are digitally distributed. All of this makes music/song a very easy thing to be sought after by a large audience.



*even if you can argue that The Beastie Boys were more so a force in popularizing hip-hop and did not completely remove the themes of societal discontent from the lyrics. They were a force in this and started the pulling away of mainstream hip-hop from its grassroots

[Mavorpen]

I'm not a fan and I truly don't know enough, but it seems that some people do bring some negatives to mainstream culture that stem from what hey hear in some hip hop. But is it ruining black culture? Nope. I don't think it is. For every fan that upholds values that come from it, and that can seem negative, there are many others who just enjoy it as another music genre, and nothing more.

Much like rap, hip hop has also been used to bring forth and discuss valid social problems that may not have seen any interest in them or seen the light of day had hip hop not been there to say "hey, this is happening and it's fucked up and we should try to do something to fix it".

Well, technically, rap is the medium by which rappers make hip hop music and not a genre in of itself, but yes, you're right.

And the thing is, I don't believe that hip hop songs even have to be about those problems. Songs commonly referred to as "diss tracks" or songs that are primarily about bragging about the lyrical skill of the rapper have a place as well. My problem is that the majority of mainstream songs do it extremely lazily and bring nothing new to the table. Whereas other artists take full advantage of their skill and show just how well the medium of rap can morph English (or any other language) in order to create something that is in essence poetry.

[Slavonian kingdom]

to resist when they constantly ply hip hop

1: Some artist create songs that do that, but not all songs do that. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPHHudm0NTY

2: I'm not a liberal and I love rap music. Broke that stereotype.

3: Last time a "Liberal" media source played "Rap Music", they got in lots of trouble. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIcHounLZhY

1. Not all but let us face that the majority of people associate hip hop with crime due to the fact that the best known artists highligting it. Of course, in meanwhile new less known derivations of HH are created.
2. If helps you that
3. So MTV is obvious right leaning?

[The United Territories of Providence]

I feel like you're speaking from an ivory tower.

[Ancient Magmia]

...you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I feel like I should add something, but you've pretty much said it all.

Actually, the only thing I would add since this doesn't seem to be understood by a lot of people, is that I believe there is such a thing as good (or "non-negative" for lack of a better word) and bad (negative) gangsta rap, which I believe is based on the intention of the artist. Somebody who opposes gangsta rap would put 2Pac and Lil Wayne's subject manner in the same box of negativity, but real hip hop fans don't see it that way. Why? Because 2Pac didn't talk about the "thug life" in a way that was intended to simply make money; he was telling the struggles and the stories of the people and the environment around him. Lil Wayne on the other hand talks about that shit to make money; there is no portrayal of a struggle.
Gangsta rap can't be put in a box. Even within that subgenre there are different varieties; it's not black and white.

Perhaps it's a stretch, to some extant, but I can't understand putting all gangsta rappers in the same category; I just don't feel the same sense of "this is bullshit" with rappers like 2Pac, or even some of these newer "Chiraq" rappers (Lil Herb, Lil Bibby, and Dreezy come to mind), as I do with rappers like Lil Wayne, 50 Cent, etc.

[Chestaan]

Which particular tracks strike you as encouraging a victim mentality?

What evidence do you have that white liberals are encouraging the release of rap music?

How are whites being forced to adhere to African'-American culture?

1. The message of this gangster music is generally that becuase of poverty and racism blacks are turning into crime. So, yes hip hop is spreading this victimising mentality among blacks that they are by default peope uncapable to earn money on normal way.

2. Well it is highly unlikely that a Republican would be a fan of this multi-kulti minority inventions

3. When you are sourounded with white people that considered it cool (also progresives) who dominate the media, it is hard to resist when they constantly play hip hop.

But its true that people turn to crime because of poverty.

[Mavorpen]

I feel like you're speaking from an ivory tower.

Uh, no. I don't think it's accurate to say that simply because I've started a thread topic that's outside of the cultural context of many people here simply because, well, there aren't a lot of urban black people using this forum.

[Slavonian kingdom]

1. The message of this gangster music is generally that becuase of poverty and racism blacks are turning into crime. So, yes hip hop is spreading this victimising mentality among blacks that they are by default peope uncapable to earn money on normal way.

That's not a victimization mentality. That's called being aware of reality. Poverty and racism ARE responsible for the major problems facing black people.

2. Well it is highly unlikely that a Republican would be a fan of this multi-kulti minority inventions

Are Republicans fans of rock and roll, country, blues, jazz, etc? Because, you know, they all have significant black influence.

1. Even if that is true, are the majority of black people affected by poverty and racism? Yet it seems that all getting into that mode. Evenmore wgen they are living in a supposedly rich country?
2. Ok. But that music does not usually speak abour crime and poverty