Has Political Correctness in the USA gone too far?

[The Holy Therns]

Instead of whining that you are being offended, cling to your cause even more.

Person X publicly hates gays? Make your homosexuality even more obvious. Embrace who you are. If you are of any culture, don't shy away from your traditions, show them off. Don't moan about having your culture offended when you yourself know nothing about your own origins.

Hi, welcome to society. You must be new here.

[Liriena]

Instead of whining that you are being offended, cling to your cause even more.

Person X publicly hates gays? Make your homosexuality even more obvious. Embrace who you are. If you are of any culture, don't shy away from your traditions, show them off. Don't moan about having your culture offended when you yourself know nothing about your own origins.

So, what you are basically saying is we don't have the right to criticise the beliefs of people if we find those beliefs hurtful, insulting or ignorant, and instead we should just express the part of our identity that is being attacked harder?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Instead of whining that you are being offended, cling to your cause even more.

Person X publicly hates gays? Make your homosexuality even more obvious. Embrace who you are. If you are of any culture, don't shy away from your traditions, show them off. Don't moan about having your culture offended when you yourself know nothing about your own origins.

So, what you are basically saying is we don't have the right to criticise the beliefs of people if we find those beliefs hurtful, insulting or ignorant, and instead we should just express the part of our identity that is being attacked harder?

If you get attacked by a gay-basher, and don't respond by being flamingly gay, then you have no one but yourself to blame for any subsequent assaults or oppression.

*nods*

[Liriena]

So, what you are basically saying is we don't have the right to criticise the beliefs of people if we find those beliefs hurtful, insulting or ignorant, and instead we should just express the part of our identity that is being attacked harder?

If you get attacked by a gay-basher, and don't respond by being flamingly gay, then you have no one but yourself to blame for any subsequent assaults or oppression.

*nods*

It is known.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I don't really understand how not-PC statements could "deny others the right to free speech" .

In my book being PC is not making "inconvenient" statements or overly aestheticizing "inconvenient" statements. What may superficially appear as racist, sexist, etc. but is actually not can still be not PC.

Rape jokes and alleged victim blaming are good examples of not-PC behavior. Simply state that not going in a certain neighborhood will lower your chance of being victimized, in a crime debate, for example, and you have a good chance of getting called a "victim blamer" when you are merely stating a fact, with 0 intention whatsoever to blame victims for the crimes. Regarding rape jokes, it's A-OK to use "murder" or "kill" jokingly or in a non-serious manner, as with other shit that would be horrible if used literally, but for whatever reason "rape" is the special snowflake of the bunch.

Well the thing is that it's not only what you say but how you say it, to quote Pygmalion here.

I agree. But really, people need to stop getting their panties in a bunch when they see or read something they find "offensive" at face value, and stop and think for a second before calling that thing "raaacisttt!!!!111" , "seeexissstttt!!111" , "victim blaming!!11111" , etc.

For instance if you say that not going in a certain neighborhood will lower your chances of being victimized in cases of rape you're grossly missing the big picture, that most rape crimes are done by relatives or someone the other person knows by far than stranger rape.

I was already aware of this fact , and no I was not referring to rape but crime in general.

And certain rape jokes and murder jokes are funny, but not all of them, and someone who is trying to make a good joke knows this. If the other person feels uncomfortable it is only polite to apologize and remind oneself that there's a limit to everything with everyone you hang around with falling in several different degrees from your norm.

I understand this, but for whatever reason people seem to be particularly oversensitive regarding rape jokes, relative to e.g. murder jokes. And I'm not just taking about jokes, it can hold just as true to any non-serious/non-literal usage. Perhaps it is because it hasn't yet been universally established that rape is wrong (as opposed to murder) , so maybe the people complaining suspect the authors of said jokes of expressing real underlying feelings towards e.g. rape through these jokes, but this is hardly the case.

All in all, PC isn't about censorship, it is a movement to make you aware of what you say and how you say it so you don't hurt other people. It's literally what we used to call "don't be an asshole" while I was growing up, there is no difference.

I'm afraid that PC can keep people from expressing valuable opinions or even facts, in that they will not do this in order not to run (or appear not to run) counter to established mainstream social views and "factoids" . It's the good old "don't be an asshole" stepped up a notch with added societal pressure, for no real benefit or rather, a worsened state of affairs.

It would be A-OK if this could remain at the level of just societal pressure/ostracization , but unfortunately a small but vocal minority of PC proponents seek legal enforcement, want extra measures so that websites such as those of social media ban "offensive" users and/or content, etc.

A very good example of PC gone haywire is, again, the problem of alleged victim blaming. Preach teaching people self-respect and self-esteem, ways to block or ignore e.g. cyberbullies in a debate regarding suicide and you'll easily get called a "victim-blamer" and/or a "bully apologist", "bigot" , etc. Anecdotal as this may be, you get the point.

[Keyboard Warriors]

You can make all the rape jokes and do all the victim blaming you like. Just don't complain when you're branded a sexist for what you say, or at least don't complain how you're the victim of political correctness as if to pretend the problem is that what you said didn't match what the rest of us think, rather than the problem being what you said.

Thanks for proving me right. You've addressed literally nothing I've said.

If your whole point is that some people whine too much about their feelings been hurt then I have no desire to address anything you've said. If you cannot separate a movement to be more inclusive of everybody and some people who take things too seriously then that is a problem caused by your own poor logical conclusions and it's something that you have to deal with. Right now you seem to be using this as a platform to whine about how people disagree with you and I certainly would not be surprised if it turned out that you were grossly over-exaggerating these claims.

[Bohemia Minor]

Censor the U.S.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Thanks for proving me right. You've addressed literally nothing I've said.

If your whole point is that some people whine too much about their feelings been hurt then I have no desire to address anything you've said.

No, whine all you want. By all means, do. Just don't go out there and attempt to make your feelings into law by supporting legislation that would criminalize "offensive speech" , cause websites to have to ban "offensive" users and content, etc. Which is what a very vocal part of the PC crowd is interested in doing. Don't go and bully people with perfectly valid and valuable opinions out of debates (and society in general) by using such catchphrases as "insensitive" "X-apologist" "victim-blamer" etc. You don't even have to wander far to see this. If you'd pay any attention to NSG you'd see how easy it is to get called a victim blamer in a topic regarding cyberbullying, for example, for merely expressing support of teaching people self-esteem. Similarly, suggesting anything that has to do with preventing crime from the victim's side is now labeled as "victim blaming". Dangerous neighborhood? Pff, nice try victim blamer!

If you cannot separate a movement to be more inclusive of everybody and some people who take things too seriously then that is a problem caused by your own poor logical conclusions and it's something that you have to deal with.

Perhaps it is you who should more actively distance yourself from those people. Just saying.

Right now you seem to be using this as a platform to whine about how people disagree with you and I certainly would not be surprised if it turned out that you were grossly over-exaggerating these claims.

No, I am whining about the things listed above, and I am also damn right whining about those people who, put in front of an opinion different to their own, cannot accept the fact that that other opinion is simply different, and rather choose to call the other guy "insensitive" , "victim blamer" or the content "offensive", or similar, in an attempt to conquer the moral high ground and thus appear that they are right.

[Murkwood]

Yes, so much so. These secular-progressives are trying to instill their PC doctrine in the US.

[Rhodisia]

Every man should be comfortable in his own skin, regardless of its color.

[Bohemia Minor]

Every man should be comfortable in his own skin, regardless of its color.
(Image)

I like being yellow
I know how you feel bro

[Divitaen]

No, whine all you want. By all means, do. Just don't go out there and attempt to make your feelings into law by supporting legislation that would criminalize "offensive speech" , cause websites to have to ban "offensive" users and content, etc. Which is what a very vocal part of the PC crowd is interested in doing. Don't go and bully people with perfectly valid and valuable opinions out of debates (and society in general) by using such catchphrases as "insensitive" "X-apologist" "victim-blamer" etc. You don't even have to wander far to see this. If you'd pay any attention to NSG you'd see how easy it is to get called a victim blamer in a topic regarding cyberbullying, for example, for merely expressing support of teaching people self-esteem. Similarly, suggesting anything that has to do with preventing crime from the victim's side is now labeled as "victim blaming". Dangerous neighborhood? Pff, nice try victim blamer!

Ok, look. The PC crowd is always going to be filled with unreasonable people but most of the cases I've encountered online of "victim-blaming" claims involve remarks that amount to exactly that. Maybe I'm more cynical, but I think the fact that rape victims face a disproportionate amount of media scrutiny for their actions, for their clothing, for their sobriety, for their sexual activity, and the pervasive nature of rape culture, would make most people concerned about the way the issue of rape is treated, especially online. You may have faced some unreasonable people online, but they are a very small minority, because most of the "victim-blaming" and "rape-apologist" online-battles that I've encountered have involved people making the most ridiculous claims, that short skirts invite rape to the notion that women who don't sleep around will protect themselves from sexual assault. To guard against this dangerous trend that we've seen in Steubenville, Maryville and Cleveland. I don't think its a bad thing that people are concerned about comments that hope to overturn this tide. As for comments about "preventing crime on the victim's side", I would appreciate if you're more specific about these comments. I've read the weirdest comments about how victims ought to protect themselves from rape, even though rape has occurred in a whole variety of circumstances regardless of the victim's relationship to the rapist, her sobriety, her location or her dress at the time, so if its related to that it may not be surprising that that reaction ensued.

[Mavorpen]

Every man should be comfortable in his own skin, regardless of its color.
(Image)

Holy shit this is amazing. It contributed. ..nothing really.

[Haktiva]

Political correctness is essentially a form of censorship. It's politically incorrect to be against welfare, even though welfare hurts a nation(IMO since it tends to create more leeches compared to how many people it may help, plus I don't much like taxes in general)...

See, political correctness is about being sensitive to the feelings of others. In some cases it can go to far, but must you use the word "leeches?"

I know, I know. It is your absolute right to say that under the first amendment. I am not saying you don't have the right to say it. However, could you at least try to use a term that won't potentially hurt others? This isn't about being allowed to do something. It's about thinking of other human beings.

A more appropriate sentence would be:

"Welfare can have some disadvantages, and it has a tendency to create dependency on public aid."

Exact same point, and it doesn't hurt others.

are people so spineless they can't stand having their feelings hurt even slightly?

[Mavorpen]

See, political correctness is about being sensitive to the feelings of others. In some cases it can go to far, but must you use the word "leeches?"

I know, I know. It is your absolute right to say that under the first amendment. I am not saying you don't have the right to say it. However, could you at least try to use a term that won't potentially hurt others? This isn't about being allowed to do something. It's about thinking of other human beings.

A more appropriate sentence would be:

"Welfare can have some disadvantages, and it has a tendency to create dependency on public aid."

Exact same point, and it doesn't hurt others.

are people so spineless they can't stand having their feelings hurt even slightly?

Yeah, you tell them, ITG!

[Keyboard Warriors]

If your whole point is that some people whine too much about their feelings been hurt then I have no desire to address anything you've said.

No, whine all you want. By all means, do. Just don't go out there and attempt to make your feelings into law by supporting legislation that would criminalize "offensive speech" , cause websites to have to ban "offensive" users and content, etc. Which is what a very vocal part of the PC crowd is interested in doing. Don't go and bully people with perfectly valid and valuable opinions out of debates (and society in general) by using such catchphrases as "insensitive" "X-apologist" "victim-blamer" etc. You don't even have to wander far to see this. If you'd pay any attention to NSG you'd see how easy it is to get called a victim blamer in a topic regarding cyberbullying, for example, for merely expressing support of teaching people self-esteem. Similarly, suggesting anything that has to do with preventing crime from the victim's side is now labeled as "victim blaming". Dangerous neighborhood? Pff, nice try victim blamer!

And as above, this is turning into a rant about a group of people who have a debating style which you disagree with. In other words, about your bad experiences on the internet rather than political correctness. I have no desire whatsoever than to argue this with you because there's.... nothing to argue here and doing so is pointless.

If you cannot separate a movement to be more inclusive of everybody and some people who take things too seriously then that is a problem caused by your own poor logical conclusions and it's something that you have to deal with.

Perhaps it is you who should more actively distance yourself from those people. Just saying.

Do I have to actively distance myself from murderers as well to prove I don't like murder? I'm sorry if you don't like these people but please don't try and guilt-trip the rest of us into attending your pity party.

Right now you seem to be using this as a platform to whine about how people disagree with you and I certainly would not be surprised if it turned out that you were grossly over-exaggerating these claims.

No, I am whining about the things listed above, and I am also damn right whining about those people who, put in front of an opinion different to their own, cannot accept the fact that that other opinion is simply different, and rather choose to call the other guy "insensitive" , "victim blamer" or the content "offensive", or similar, in an attempt to conquer the moral high ground and thus appear that they are right.

I really hate this phrase sometimes but I think it's perfectly apt here: just argue it down.

[Aquesta]

Yes it has gone way too far you can't express your opinion without being labeled a racist or sexist or an arsehole.

[Avenio]

Yes it has gone way too far you can't express your opinion without being labeled a racist or sexist or an arsehole.

"Yes, political correctness has gone way to far! I mean, when I say shitty things people call me on it! That just won't do. They should all just shut up and let me go on about my terrible opinions and not express their own about mine. It's only fair!"

[Aquesta]

Yes it has gone way too far you can't express your opinion without being labeled a racist or sexist or an arsehole.

"Yes, political correctness has gone way to far! I mean, when I say shitty things people call me on it! That just won't do. They should all just shut up and let me go on about my terrible opinions and not express their own about mine. It's only fair!"

"Shitty things" "terrible opinions" The self righteousness is strong with this one. Whatever man just because you can't handle my opinion doesn't mean i should be forced to PG myself for you.

[Avenio]

"Yes, political correctness has gone way to far! I mean, when I say shitty things people call me on it! That just won't do. They should all just shut up and let me go on about my terrible opinions and not express their own about mine. It's only fair!"

"Shitty things" "terrible opinions" The self righteousness is strong with this one. Whatever man just because you can't handle my opinion doesn't mean i should be forced to PG myself for you.

I'm not the one that's so sensitive to criticism that any opposing opinion is immediately dismissed as censorship.

[Aquesta]

"Shitty things" "terrible opinions" The self righteousness is strong with this one. Whatever man just because you can't handle my opinion doesn't mean i should be forced to PG myself for you.

I'm not the one that's so sensitive to criticism that any opposing opinion is immediately dismissed as censorship.

I'm not sensitive to criticism i just don't like to be labeled as an arsehole just because my opinions differ from yours.

[Avenio]

I'm not the one that's so sensitive to criticism that any opposing opinion is immediately dismissed as censorship.

I'm not sensitive to criticism i just don't like to be labeled as an arsehole just because my opinions differ from yours.

If your opinions make you an asshole, why shouldn't you be called an asshole? Offending your delicate sensibilities isn't a good enough reason, btw.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

No, whine all you want. By all means, do. Just don't go out there and attempt to make your feelings into law by supporting legislation that would criminalize "offensive speech" , cause websites to have to ban "offensive" users and content, etc. Which is what a very vocal part of the PC crowd is interested in doing. Don't go and bully people with perfectly valid and valuable opinions out of debates (and society in general) by using such catchphrases as "insensitive" "X-apologist" "victim-blamer" etc. You don't even have to wander far to see this. If you'd pay any attention to NSG you'd see how easy it is to get called a victim blamer in a topic regarding cyberbullying, for example, for merely expressing support of teaching people self-esteem. Similarly, suggesting anything that has to do with preventing crime from the victim's side is now labeled as "victim blaming". Dangerous neighborhood? Pff, nice try victim blamer!

Ok, look. The PC crowd is always going to be filled with unreasonable people but most of the cases I've encountered online of "victim-blaming" claims involve remarks that amount to exactly that.

I can't really say the same. The times that "victim-blaming" has been used properly have been few and far between in my experience. It's annoying because it's a catchphrase easily thrown around, and, as with anything used trivially and improperly, does a general disservice to and lowers the credibility of those that may be using it properly.

Maybe I'm more cynical, but I think the fact that rape victims face a disproportionate amount of media scrutiny for their actions, for their clothing, for their sobriety, for their sexual activity, and the pervasive nature of rape culture, would make most people concerned about the way the issue of rape is treated, especially online.

I agree, and this is exactly what I've said in a previous post of mine.

You may have faced some unreasonable people online, but they are a very small minority, because most of the "victim-blaming" and "rape-apologist" online-battles that I've encountered have involved people making the most ridiculous claims, that short skirts invite rape to the notion that women who don't sleep around will protect themselves from sexual assault.

Which is actual victim blaming and whoever expresses such opinions shouldn't be surprised when it's called as such.

To guard against this dangerous trend that we've seen in Steubenville, Maryville and Cleveland. I don't think its a bad thing that people are concerned about comments that hope to overturn this tide.

It's OK for people to be worried and act against this but I'd love to see people stopping to think for a second before throwing catchphrases around.

As for comments about "preventing crime on the victim's side", I would appreciate if you're more specific about these comments. I've read the weirdest comments about how victims ought to protect themselves from rape, even though rape has occurred in a whole variety of circumstances regardless of the victim's relationship to the rapist, her sobriety, her location or her dress at the time, so if its related to that it may not be surprising that that reaction ensued.

I've never held such a position , and again, I was not referring exclusively to rape. A good example would be the cyberbullying thing.

[Aquesta]

I'm not sensitive to criticism i just don't like to be labeled as an arsehole just because my opinions differ from yours.

If your opinions make you an asshole, why shouldn't you be called an asshole? Offending your delicate sensibilities isn't a good enough reason, btw.

Uhh because it's rude and childish "delicate sensibilities" okay man just because i don't like being called an arsehole for speaking my perfectly acceptable opinions i'm delicate? Yea sure totally man totally.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Yes it has gone way too far you can't express your opinion without being labeled a racist or sexist or an arsehole.

Yes, that will generally happen when you say racist or sexist things.