GUN TALK (Favorite guns discussion thread)

[Salus Maior]

Okay, revisionist.

Where's the lie? We beat back the North in Tet, and we were poised to win until we lost interest, then we pulled out, then Vietnam fell.

How could we have lost when we weren't even there anymore?

A morale defeat is still a defeat.

And that's what the Tet offensive was for.

[Licana]

Where's the lie? We beat back the North in Tet, and we were poised to win until we lost interest, then we pulled out, then Vietnam fell.

How could we have lost when we weren't even there anymore?

A morale defeat is still a defeat.

And that's what the Tet offensive was for.

The Tet Offensive was an utter failure, though. Political effects in the US were completely unintentional and were not something that the North Vietnamese had planned for regarding the offensive.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Where's the lie? We beat back the North in Tet, and we were poised to win until we lost interest, then we pulled out, then Vietnam fell.

How could we have lost when we weren't even there anymore?

A morale defeat is still a defeat.

And that's what the Tet offensive was for.

Nah.

[Impaled Nazarene]

Oxymoron of the day.

Where's the oxymoron? Pretty much every Communist state in history was a police state.

A stateless society cannot be a police state. Basic ideology and contradiction. Not to mention Hegel.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Where's the oxymoron? Pretty much every Communist state in history was a police state.

A stateless society cannot be a police state. Basic ideology and contradiction. Not to mention Hegel.

Good thing communist societies aren't stateless despite what Communists insist.

[Pax Nerdvana]

Okay, revisionist.

Where's the lie? We beat back the North in Tet, and we were poised to win until we lost interest, then we pulled out, then Vietnam fell.

How could we have lost when we weren't even there anymore?

Have you heard of politics back home? The people wanted out, so we got out.

[Impaled Nazarene]

A stateless society cannot be a police state. Basic ideology and contradiction. Not to mention Hegel.

Good thing communist societies aren't stateless despite what Communists insist.

"the absence of social classes, money and the state."
Damn you are setting a record for longest wrong streak. Next you'll think private and personal property are the same thing.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Good thing communist societies aren't stateless despite what Communists insist.

"the absence of social classes, money and the state."
Damn you are setting a record for longest wrong streak.

Sure, I'll believe the Communists. The Russians did, look what happened to them.

Next you'll think private and personal property are the same thing.

They are. They literally are.

[Impaled Nazarene]

"the absence of social classes, money and the state."
Damn you are setting a record for longest wrong streak.

Sure, I'll believe the Communists. The Russians did, look what happened to them.

Next you'll think private and personal property are the same thing.

They are. They literally are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property
The Streak continues. At this rate you're gonna beat Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak. Next you'll say Marx advocated for the disarmament of the proletariat.

[Telconi]

Sure, I'll believe the Communists. The Russians did, look what happened to them.

They are. They literally are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property
The Streak continues. At this rate you're gonna beat Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak. Next you'll say Marx advocated for the disarmament of the proletariat.

Disagreement with Marxist theory =/= being wrong.

[Monfrox]

Back on topic folks.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... per-rifle/

[Pax Nerdvana]

Back on topic folks.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... per-rifle/

Cool. It's nice when the military get's an upgrade.

[Monfrox]

Back on topic folks.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... per-rifle/

Cool. It's nice when the military get's an upgrade.

Especially the Marines, who always end up with the Army’s handmedowns.

[Pax Nerdvana]

Cool. It's nice when the military get's an upgrade.

Especially the Marines, who always end up with the Army’s handmedowns.

Yeah. The US military has something of a history of keeping the same guns and equipment in service for a very long time.

[Impaled Nazarene]

Cool. It's nice when the military get's an upgrade.

Especially the Marines, who always end up with the Army’s handmedowns.

Cheytech Intervention when?
Also doesn't the USMC insist on using the more dated weapons like the 1911a1 and M16?

[Pax Nerdvana]

Especially the Marines, who always end up with the Army’s handmedowns.

Cheytech Intervention when?
Also doesn't the USMC insist on using the more dated weapons like the 1911a1 and M16?

I'm not sure. That is a possibility, though.

[Monfrox]

Especially the Marines, who always end up with the Army’s handmedowns.

Cheytech Intervention when?
Also doesn't the USMC insist on using the more dated weapons like the 1911a1 and M16?

Proprietary ammunition. It will probably only ever be in an extremely limited role.

The Marine Corps uses those platforms more out of necessity than choice. New shit is expensive, which is why they’re still using upgraded Hueys and Cobras. MARSOC recently switched to the Glock though iirc. Which is a shame, really. I’d rather see the M9A3 in service than the Glock.

[Pax Nerdvana]

Cheytech Intervention when?
Also doesn't the USMC insist on using the more dated weapons like the 1911a1 and M16?

Proprietary ammunition. It will probably only ever be in an extremely limited role.

The Marine Corps uses those platforms more out of necessity than choice. New shit is expensive, which is why they’re still using upgraded Hueys and Cobras. MARSOC recently switched to the Glock though iirc. Which is a shame, really. I’d rather see the M9A3 in service than the Glock.

The Marines still use modified Hueys? I feel really bad for them.

[Mujahidah]

That is the dumbest position I have heard in a while. Germany makes good weapons. The US military uses a good number of them because they are good. I take it you want to kick the MP5 out of SEAL service just because you have a burning hatred of anything with a foreign manufacturers stamp on it, huh?

YES. EXACTLY.

Believe it or not the SEALs would tell you thats really friggin dumb.

Fuck the SEALs.

"Buh its foreign" isn't an argument for a gun being bad. In fact, many foreign guns are of excellent manufacture. Actually explain why its bad if you want to be taken seriously. Otherwise, shove off.

You need to explain why I should buy imports first instead of American, bucko.

Better get rid of all our mortars except for the 60s. They're British and Israeli.

You should be fine with getting rid of the Israeli ones, so I don't understand the double standard here.

I don't need to explain crap dude you're the one making the dumb accusations about imports being inherently worse. How about you actually justify it instead of just screeching about the fact that they're foreign?

[Monfrox]

Proprietary ammunition. It will probably only ever be in an extremely limited role.

The Marine Corps uses those platforms more out of necessity than choice. New shit is expensive, which is why they’re still using upgraded Hueys and Cobras. MARSOC recently switched to the Glock though iirc. Which is a shame, really. I’d rather see the M9A3 in service than the Glock.

The Marines still use modified Hueys? I feel really bad for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_UH-1Y_Venom

[Pax Nerdvana]

The Marines still use modified Hueys? I feel really bad for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_UH-1Y_Venom

That's better than original Hueys that were modified.

[Valgora]

Especially the Marines, who always end up with the Army’s handmedowns.

Cheytech Intervention when?
Also doesn't the USMC insist on using the more dated weapons like the 1911a1 and M16?

The Army uses the M16A2 and M16A4 still. The M4 and M4A1 are used as well.
Also, I thought the USMC used the same handgun as the Army.

[Salus Maior]

A morale defeat is still a defeat.

And that's what the Tet offensive was for.

The Tet Offensive was an utter failure, though. Political effects in the US were completely unintentional and were not something that the North Vietnamese had planned for regarding the offensive.

The point of the Tet Offensive was to prove that the Vietcong could pull off a major attack in what was thought to be firmly South Vietnamese/American occupied territory. The Vietcong knew they couldn't keep those gains, they knew they couldn't beat the Americans toe-to-toe upfront. They just needed them to pull out of South Vietnam and let SV collapse.

And guess what? They did.

[Licana]

The point of the Tet Offensive was to prove that the Vietcong could pull off a major attack in what was thought to be firmly South Vietnamese/American occupied territory. The Vietcong knew they couldn't keep those gains, they knew they couldn't beat the Americans toe-to-toe upfront. They just needed them to pull out of South Vietnam and let SV collapse.

And guess what? They did.

This is a pop culture understanding of what the Tet Offensive's goals were, not reality. Tet was intended to spark a general uprising among the South Vietnamese populace, as it was believed that support for the South Vietnamese government and the American armed forces was so low that a large-scale attack by the NVA would inspire and embolden the populace to take up arms against them. However, the North severely underestimated the morale of the South Vietnamese troops/people (there were no uprisings or mass defections as they expected) as well as the strength and strategic mobility of the US Army. By all accounts that I am aware of, Tet was considered a dismal failure up until the point in which the American public decided to (retroactively) turn it into a success.

The North Vietnamese were not some mystical morale magicians, and they did not divine that the absolute failure of the Tet Offensive would be considered to be the tipping point for the people of a nation in which it had not even significantly impacted.

[Germanic Templars]

Talking about Vietnam War and not the guns? Fucking degeneracy is what I call that!

How about this then, what is your favorite gun(s) used in the Vietnam War?

I would say M16A2 because it was the model that fixed a lot of reliability issues with the first two models, and the M60 because of it's aesthetically pleasing design.