Thoughts on the President

by **Atlanticatia** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:47 pm

Burleson wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:
It was started by civil war veterans in the South. I live maybe twenty minutes from the town it started in. They were Democrats, but Democrats were conservative in those days. You don't know history.

Well, being secular in public institutions is basically following the law in America. Being pro-LBGT+ Rights is called common sense.

No, the law doesn't ban prayer, the law guarantees the rights of American's to pray without government interference.

what does praying have to do with LGBT rights? the law also guarantees equal protection

You have the right to pray and follow religion, just as people have the right to be free from religion.

by **Burleson** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:49 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
Burleson wrote:No, the law doesn't ban prayer, the law guarantees the rights of American's to pray without government interference.

what does praying have to do with LGBT rights? the law also guarantees equal protection

Equal protection doesn't mean marry whoever you want and praying doesn't have anything to do with gay privileges.

by **Atlanticatia** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:51 pm

Burleson wrote:
Atlanticatia wrote:
what does praying have to do with LGBT rights? the law also guarantees equal protection

Equal protection doesn't mean marry whoever you want and praying doesn't have anything to do with gay privileges.

Yes, it does. All people have the right to equal protection under the law, meaning all people have the right to legally marry whomever they would like. Private churches are welcome to refuse to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies if they like, but why do you think the state has the right to ban same sex marriage?

by **Stormwind-City** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:54 pm

I am happy with some of his actions, like pushing for higher wages, social policies (not all), and an attempt to get healthcare for those who need it. But, he is still to conservative economically and socially for my and many other people's taste. So, not the worst, but slightly above average 5.5-6.25/10.

by **Insaeldor** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:55 pm

Simply put I agree with him ideologically however the policy he has supported and the legislation that has supported things he's wished to do is mediocre at best most if the time. His foreign policy is lackluster as well seeing as he is far to timid it seems in Iraq and I would like to see he push a little harder in practice on both Russia and ISIS as the bombing isn't extensive enough and the sanctions armed extensive enough.

I understand that both Eurooe and Congress are factors in some if the things I'm talking about and honestly I can't blame him about Europe and I'm surprised as to how timid Merkel is with both Russia and ISIS. But I feel he is only adding to division in congress although it's literally ever bodies fault in congress for how fucked congress is simple as that.

by **Communal Ecotopia** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:55 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Talanzaar wrote:I have a feeling people only remember the good things a President did after he leaves office.

...unless a President really is bad. Like Nixon.

The irony here is the Nixon, crooked weasel though he was, probably signed more progressive legislation into law than anyone since, except maybe Obama. Clean Air Act? Check. Clean Water Act? Check. Creation of the EPA? Check. Title IX? Check. Support detente? Check. Oversaw the gender de-segregation of the United States Civil Service Commission? Check. OSHA? Check.

by **Atlanticatia** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:00 pm

Communal Ecotopia wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:
...unless a President really is bad. Like Nixon.

The irony here is the Nixon, crooked weasel though he was, probably signed more progressive legislation into law than anyone since, except maybe Obama. Clean Air Act? Check. Clean Water Act? Check. Creation of the EPA? Check. Title IX? Check. Support detente? Check. Oversaw the gender de-segregation of the United States Civil Service Commission? Check. OSHA? Check.

I actually thought his domestic policy was decent, other than the whole Watergate corruption scandal and his bad foreign policy.
He actually supported a universal national healthcare plan, but it never happened because he resigned. He also supported the first Affirmative Action program.

by **Giovenith** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:11 pm

Not the greatest, but not as bad as people make him out to be. He's alright.

by **The New Sea Territory** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:25 pm

Burleson wrote:
Atlanticatia wrote:
what does praying have to do with LGBT rights? the law also guarantees equal protection

Equal protection doesn't mean marry whoever you want and praying doesn't have anything to do with gay privileges.

Equal protection does actually mean that. Praying doesn't have anything to do with it, but you said a few posts ago it did. All this conjures up the image on an inconsistent, hypocritical, homophobic theocrat.

by **The New Sea Territory** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:27 pm

Stormwind-City wrote: and an attempt to get healthcare for those who need it.

By forcing you to buy it. Obamacare is a corporatist healthcare plan that came from Newt Fucking Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation in the 90s that forces people to buy healthcare from corporations. It is NOT universal healthcare.

by **The 93rd Coalition** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:30 pm

The Scientific States wrote:
Zelacraux wrote:He promised more jobs but I only see unemployment for the future generation.

The number of private sector jobs has grown under Obama, and thanks to his policies and stimulus, our unemployment rate is much lower than most other countries who were afflicted with the recession. Obama's handling of the recession was, in my opinion, the best thing he handled as a president.

I think the problem is not that there are not that there aren't any jobs to be had, but the jobs are very, very low paying. In New York, anyway.

by **-The Unified Earth Governments-** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:33 pm

Could be better, but with this Congress I don't hold much on him, you really can't do much with such a piss ass Government, and Obama doesn't want to look bad in the public eyes.

And eyes I do blame the Republicans for this, Obama could have more balls but he wouldn't be able to use them if Congress keeps being a fucking corporate pig house.

by **Lalaki** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:04 pm

-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:Could be better, but with this Congress I don't hold much on him, you really can't do much with such a piss ass Government, and Obama doesn't want to look bad in the public eyes.

And eyes I do blame the Republicans for this, Obama could have more balls but he wouldn't be able to use them if Congress keeps being a fucking corporate pig house.

Though I am a bit less blunt and partisan, I agree with your sentiment. Gridlock is never a good thing.

by **Kelinfort** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:39 pm

I can sum my opinion in one word: meh.

I understand he works hard, but not all his goals or vision is analogous to mine, though I do share some of his beliefs.

by **The Fascist American Empire** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:47 pm

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/poll--obama-worst-president-since-wwii-294860355986
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025182253
http://www.nbcrightnow.com/story/25928250/poll-finds-obama-ranks-first-as-worst-president-since-wwii
http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2014/07/02/obama-george-w-bush-quinnipiac-poll-reagan-clinton/11985837/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/2/obama-worst-president-wwii-new-poll-shows/?page=all
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/obama-the-worst-president-since-wwii-see-how-he-stacks-up/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-the-worst-president-since-wwii/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/07/02/americans-say-obama-is-the-worst-president-since-world-war-ii-thats-not-his-real-problem/

I wouldn't go this far... Maybe second worst.

by **Kelinfort** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:55 pm

The Fascist American Empire wrote:http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/poll--obama-worst-president-since-wwii-294860355986
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025182253
http://www.nbcrightnow.com/story/25928250/poll-finds-obama-ranks-first-as-worst-president-since-wwii
http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2014/07/02/obama-george-w-bush-quinnipiac-poll-reagan-clinton/11985837/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/2/obama-worst-president-wwii-new-poll-shows/?page=all
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/obama-the-worst-president-since-wwii-see-how-he-stacks-up/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-the-worst-president-since-wwii/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/07/02/americans-say-obama-is-the-worst-president-since-world-war-ii-thats-not-his-real-problem/

I wouldn't go this far... Maybe second worst.

So that's your argument? Ad populeum?

by **Independent State AF** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:04 pm

Alexandreon wrote:Well, at the beginning I'd like to say that I'm not from the USA (I'm from EU), but US President is a person important enough to be assessed by the foreigners too, I think.

I can see that Obama has been partially blocked by the Congress, which confirms my judgement that US political system might be less efficient than European models (not always, but it's more prone to be such IMHO, but that's a bit offtopic). Therefore, some of his plans got undermined due to the two-party system...

I won't say a word about Obama's internal policy- I don't feel myself entitled to do so, I'll only state that some of my American friends complained about him, and complained a lot. I'll allow myself to say something about US foreign policy, though.

Generally, after the hyperactive phase of Bush, America fell into a kind of stupor, I'd say, which is particularly dangerous as, like it or not, the USA are the strongest state of something I'll call "Western world" in rather broad meaning. It is particularly visible in my region, Central-Eastern Europe, the region of former Warsaw Pact. Recent increase of Russian activity, or rather aggression is not mitigated enough in my opinion, and Obama's "RESET" idea was good, but lasted for tad too long- Georgia was an important signum temporis and memento.

Of course, one can't expect that US will always deal with everything, but European allies are not sure about US support in case of crisis, and that's one major charge against Obama's policy I can state.

Other than that, I guess that Obama is neither among the best nor among the worst US Presidents, but it is an opinion of somebody from abroad. I'll gladly see what Americans think about him.

I agree with most said here, but as an American. I have to say this, (and its nothing against EU or European countries in general.) We can't constantly babysit you guys, you have to deal with your own problems too. Holding back on everything until Uncle Sam gives you the A-okay and a promise of support wont get this world anywehre.

by **The Fascist American Empire** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:04 pm

Kelinfort wrote:
The Fascist American Empire wrote:http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/poll--obama-worst-president-since-wwii-294860355986
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025182253
http://www.nbcrightnow.com/story/25928250/poll-finds-obama-ranks-first-as-worst-president-since-wwii
http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2014/07/02/obama-george-w-bush-quinnipiac-poll-reagan-clinton/11985837/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/2/obama-worst-president-wwii-new-poll-shows/?page=all
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/obama-the-worst-president-since-wwii-see-how-he-stacks-up/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-the-worst-president-since-wwii/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/07/02/americans-say-obama-is-the-worst-president-since-world-war-ii-thats-not-his-real-problem/

I wouldn't go this far... Maybe second worst.

So that's your argument? Ad populeum?

I have no idea what that is. But my argument is that liberals are in the minority when it comes to the President. However, I do not believe that he is the worst President ever. That will always be Andrew Jackson's title. Nor is he the worst since WWII, that would be Nixon. Thus, Obama is the THIRD worst President ever elected.

by **Sailsia** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:06 pm

I think socially he's been stronger than his predecessors, but honestly that isn't saying much. LGBT issues are important but they aren't the top issues that I vote on. I'm much more concerned with the War on Drugs, which the US is losing, as a new tide of heroin use is sweeping the country (or the East Coast at least) and the drug cartels gain footholds in the US to directly sell drugs. I think his handling the economic recession was fine, but I personally don't believe that the stimulus was the best option. I know in my state, there was a lot of wasted money, and if felt like the idea was more to throw money at the problem them to build infrastructure in a smart way. Education-wise, he's been much the same way. My state was one of the Race to the Top winners, and although the flood of money greatly improved things, my students and myself saw a lot of spending that wasnt actually improving things, so more wasted money. Now that the money is gone, things look like they'll go on a downward trajectory for a while until they stabilize, which is the worst kind of environment to be teaching kids in.

On foreign policy, I feel he has done a good job of not getting the US into any major ground engagements, but he has been striking me as very inconsistent. He'll be harsh and unforgiving one day, like when he made his "red line" speech about Syria, and then he'll be very hands off later. I would prefer he just be hands off, but honestly I'd rather him just pick any course and actually pursue it instead of dancing from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Economically, I believe presidents truly don't have a lot of say in what happens, so I really don't care so much as a voter about this issue. I think he should have either done healthcare right or not have done it at all, but we've got what we've got and it wont be going anywhere anytime soon so no point in fighting it now. I do resent that his administration tends to point to falling unemployment as if it were responsible for the phenomena, when in reality the government has been one of the largest job creators, and of course unemployment doesn't count people who just stop looking for work.

There is a lot more I could write about but no one is reading by this point anyway so I wont waste any more of my time. I guess I would rate his presidency as a 4-5/10. Lackluster, especially in comparison to his campaign's promises, but he's far from the devil many claim he is. I think if he were able to pass every piece of legislation he wanted, I'd give him a solid 8, and consider him in the top 5 best presidents of the last 100 years.

by **Alexandreon** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:09 pm

Independent State AF wrote: I agree with most said here, but as an American. I have to say this, (and its nothing against EU or European countries in general.) We can't constantly babysit you guys, you have to deal with your own problems too. Holding back on everything until Uncle Sam gives you the A-okay and a promise of support wont get this world anywehre.

I agree about that "babysitting" part too, the stronger European armies are, the better, but I mean that current irresolute policy is not a good sign for us, from the other bank of the Pond. Generally, things would be better IMO if EU was in charge of the common defence policy and had its own army, but I guess I won't see that coming...

by **Stormwind-City** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:20 pm

The Fascist American Empire wrote:
Kelinfort wrote:So that's your argument? Ad populeum?

I have no idea what that is. But my argument is that liberals are in the minority when it comes to the President. However, I do not believe that he is the worst President ever. That will always be Andrew Jackson's title. Nor is he the worst since WWII, that would be Nixon. Thus, Obama is the THIRD worst President ever elected.

Hardly, to claim so is ignorant of American demographics and US history. What about Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, and Warren Harding? Also the fact that not liking a president = not being of their party in your mind is such a gross simplification its worse than childish.

by **Alcase** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:32 pm

His hair has gotten really grey.

by **Geilinor** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:34 pm

Alcase wrote:His hair has gotten really grey.

Being president does that to you.

by **The Fascist American Empire** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:57 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Alcase wrote:His hair has gotten really grey.

Being president does that to you.

Last I heard, he was in perfect health. Being in such a stressful job is supposed to slowly kill you, but I guess all that golf and all that not working on the crises at hand (ISIS, Ukraine, the border) is pretty relaxing.

by **Geilinor** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:59 pm

The Fascist American Empire wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Being president does that to you.

Last I heard, he was in perfect health. Being in such a stressful job is supposed to slowly kill you, but I guess all that golf and all that not working on the crises at hand (ISIS, Ukraine, the border) is pretty relaxing.

He isn't working on ISIS and Ukraine? That's funny.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/06/world/middleeast/us-and-allies-form-coalition-against-isis.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/04/world/europe/obama-calls-russia-ukraine-moves-brazen-assault.html

Thoughts on the President

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