Would you rather live in the Soviet system or the American?

[Valkalan]

More likely a "modern" USSR would be more repressive than it was in the 1980s. Consider the reasons for its disintegration. The peoples of the many former Soviet republics voted to become independent. If the USSR would have chosen to remained unified, it would have to deal with secessionist movements in the manner that is familiar to them, repression.

But the Soviet Union was getting gradually less repressive for the last several decades of its existence, and yet, until Gorbachev, it never had a serious problem with secessionist movements. Gorbachev lifted too many restrictions too quickly. A gradual easing of repression, combined with other improvements, could have easily led to a situation where the various SSRs demanded more autonomy but not outright independence.

In the end, the modern soviet state would likely be similar to China both in political modus operandi and economic management.

Yes, I agree that this was a strong possibility, but then the USSR wouldn't have the Soviet system any more. It would have a different kind of system - namely Chinese-style capitalism.

So, for the purpose of the exercise in this thread, we are assuming that the Soviet Union lasted until 2014 and did NOT switch to an entirely different kind of economic system, like China did.

Consider the case of Scottish independence that is to be decided later this month. The UK is a prosperous nation with extensive liberties, yet there exist those who desire independence. What makes you think that the people of the USSR, a nation that lacked prosperity or any great personal liberty, would want to remain a part of that cesspool? As for the question of economic management, I gave the USSR the benefit of the doubt that they would have sought a more market-oriented model, especially given the perestroika reforms. However seeing as how wish to image that the 21th century USSR had retained a command economy, perhaps you should examine other extant command economies. Cuba and North Korea will suffice.

[Great Kleomentia]

I think we can all agree that anyone who wants to live in the Soviet system is a masochist.

[Skappola]

I think we can all agree that anyone who wants to live in the Soviet system is a masochist.

Stop speaking untruth Comrade! Thought Crime is ungood for all of us!

[Great Kleomentia]

I think we can all agree that anyone who wants to live in the Soviet system is a masochist.

Stop speaking untruth Comrade! Thought Crime is ungood for all of us!

*pulls out shotgun* Commies. Commies everywhere!

[Calimera II]

Shit. It was pure shit.

Not from the descriptions I've heard of it. There is general agreement that living in America is better, but few people say that living in the Soviet Union was completely awful. A few common threads included:

-"Personal" freedom of speech - You couldn't criticize the state, but you could say what you wanted about pretty much anybody else. You could cuss out your boss if you wanted and nobody would care.

-Solidarity - Even if it was basically a joint alliance against the state, people worked together, and tended to get along. If you asked somebody in your town/city for a favor, you could generally count on getting some help. All that "comrade" stuff wasn't just a phrase people used.

A few people have mentioned "Lenin Friday," which was basically a weekly general cleaning of your town/city. Everybody got brooms, shovels, rakes, whatever, and went out to clean things up. It wasn't strictly mandated by law, although the local babushkas would often enforce it with the iron fist of social pressure.

-Welfare - Ultra-cheap housing is often cited, the equivalent of five to ten modern US dollars a month in the 80s. Sure, you generally didn't have a NICE apartment, but homelessness wasn't a big issue, at least outside of Moscow, which has always had issues with its ginormous population.

Further, the controlled economy meant that prices and inflation were both generally stable.

-Job security - The big one for a lot of people. You would always have a job. This one, personally, hits home pretty hard for me. In the Soviet Union, I'd probably have a cushy bureaucratic job thanks to my college education. In the modern US...well, I'm just one of a million out of work college kids.


I'm not going to argue whether or not these things were all actually true, but they're the impressions I've gathered on various forums, articles and from a few live discussions over the years.

+ You were poor, everybody was poor.
+ If you didn't acted like if you were in favour of the repression you would be kicked put of your job
+ You needed to wait 2 hours in a shop to get butter.

etc etc.

[Skappola]

Stop speaking untruth Comrade! Thought Crime is ungood for all of us!

*pulls out shotgun* Commies. Commies everywhere!

Comrade! You are betraying the love Big Brother gives us all! Are you a Eurasian Spy?

[Arcturus Novus]

*pulls out shotgun* Commies. Commies everywhere!

Comrade! You are betraying the love Big Brother gives us all! Are you a Eurasian Spy?

No, comrade! Eastasia is our enemy. Eurasia is plusgood.

[Great Kleomentia]

*pulls out shotgun* Commies. Commies everywhere!

Comrade! You are betraying the love Big Brother gives us all! Are you a Eurasian Spy?

Big brother calls it love, police call it family abuse.

[Canakhstan]

Soviet Union, no contest. There I wouldn't have to risk homelessness and such. Also, I would actually be able to get educated.

[Couasia]

Russian man of Moscow need potato, but cannot into potato.

Knock at door.

Man open door.

Is not of KGB, but is of potato man!

Just kidding. Is of KGB.

[Skappola]

Comrade! You are betraying the love Big Brother gives us all! Are you a Eurasian Spy?

No, comrade! Eastasia is our enemy. Eurasia is plusgood.

How could I forget Comrade? Eastasia has always been our enemy! Have I commited crimethink? Must I be sent to Joycamp or Minitrue?

[Great Kleomentia]

Russian man of Moscow need potato, but cannot into potato.

Knock at door.

Man open door.

Is not of KGB, but is of potato man!

Just kidding. Is of KGB.

This is of funnies. I approvings.

[Arcturus Novus]

Ok, Orwell and Polandball aside, I think I'd rather live in a Soviet-style system, but definitely with more personal freedom.

[South Pacific Republic]

At least here I can say the government sucks and not disappear into the night

[Couasia]

Ok, Orwell and Polandball aside, I think I'd rather live in a Soviet-style system, but definitely with more personal freedom.

...oxymoron here...

[Norstal]

Ok, Orwell and Polandball aside, I think I'd rather live in a Soviet-style system, but definitely with more personal freedom.

Are you talking about free government services like healthcare? Cause most of Europe already have that.

[Arcturus Novus]

Ok, Orwell and Polandball aside, I think I'd rather live in a Soviet-style system, but definitely with more personal freedom.

Are you talking about free government services like healthcare? Cause most of Europe already have that.

Yeah, basically. Like, if Soviet Canada was a thing. That'd be ideal.

[Meridiani Planum]

I personally am not going to be bought out with healthcare funded by stolen money. The American system isn't perfect, but it is at least closer to the free society I would like to live in.

[The New Sea Territory]

There should be a neither option.

Both are extreme bastardizations of relatively decent economic systems, due to authoritarianism and corruption.

That's not the point if the thread; I even said in the OP that I am a critic of the Soviet system.

Well, yeah it is. You asked "would you rather", and my response is "neither, they both suck".

[Al Nahar]

As a normal citizen, the American citizen, I am content with being able to make a lot of money if my skills allow me to. In the Soviet Union no matter what I do I would be the same as everyone else no matter how hard I work. However If I was to be a military leader or government official I would be in the Soviet Union.

[Obeyistan]

I would rather both systems be dismantled and a stateless society take place, where everyone has the freedom to pursue whichever ideology they have as long as it doesn't infringe on any other person's freedom in doing so, from communism to voluntaryism...

[The New Sea Territory]

I would rather both systems be dismantled and a stateless society take place, where everyone has the freedom to pursue whichever ideology they have as long as it doesn't infringe on any other person's freedom in doing so, from communism to voluntaryism...

That last part should be labeled "capitalism", since voluntaryism isn't an economic system. But I agree.

[Solaray]

American. I prefer the variety of consumer goods and potential for great wealth, and the greater variety of ways to make a living that capitalism offers. Although I'd really miss the healthcare.

[Untaroicht]

Speaking as someone with more or less several sympathies to an ideology heavily frowned upon with a big social stigma in both countries (That being Fascism)...

I'd rather have a flawed Ochlocracy like the U.S. that does a better job at protecting basic human rights then the USSR... where, say, I can get shot for wearing a crucifix necklace in public.

[Obeyistan]

I would rather both systems be dismantled and a stateless society take place, where everyone has the freedom to pursue whichever ideology they have as long as it doesn't infringe on any other person's freedom in doing so, from communism to voluntaryism...

That last part should be labeled "capitalism", since voluntaryism isn't an economic system. But I agree.

Voluntaryism is seen as furthest on the economic right and communism furthest left. That's why I said from communism to voluntaryism.