Would you rather live in the Soviet system or the American?

[United Marxist Nations]

They are directly opposed to one-another.

Vanilla and Chocolate. Then came the swirl.

Not the same. My ideology demands nothing less than the complete destruction of the bourgeois state, and the construction of a proletarian state to take its place until such time that communism can be established.

[Geilinor]

How dare those Soviets! they inherited a perfect system/country from the Tsar and turned it into a shithole.

Oh wait the opposite happened.

Pick up a book that isn't written by Robert Conquest.

They didn't make a perfect system, if that's what you're implying.

[Antarticaria]

Vanilla and Chocolate. Then came the swirl.

Not the same. My ideology demands nothing less than the complete destruction of the bourgeois state, and the construction of a proletarian state to take its place until such time that communism can be established.

Meh Ill still give you mutual respect.

[Constantinopolis]

Having been to Romania and spoken to many who were subjected to the Soviey system I will say without a doubt I'm glad I live in the American system.

As of 2007, over 50% of Romanians said that their economic situation was worse than before 1989.

[KAS SRD]

American one. This is probably influenced to the fact that I am somewhat rich and therefore would suffer, but America, despite its many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, flaws is still better than a communist rule. Here you have freedom of speech, religion, to assemble, to own a gun, to own yor own company, etc.
Plus, your can vote in an American system, so you could elect a party that will bring in the socialist traits you like while keeping out the genocide and mass murder!

[Threlizdun]

Easily the American system, considering I possess significantly more political freedoms, have greater capacity for artistic expression, and have lesser reasons to fear what will happen to me because of my sexual orientation and gender identity.

It is highly likely that the Soviet system would have reformed its view of homosexuality and the various LBGT things just like the entire rest of the world did. I mean, let's not pretend that the Soviet Union was around when people weren't being put in mental institutions for it in the Western countries.

It did however retain the criminalization of homosexuality, at least in males, throughout the entirety of its existence.

[United Marxist Nations]

It is highly likely that the Soviet system would have reformed its view of homosexuality and the various LBGT things just like the entire rest of the world did. I mean, let's not pretend that the Soviet Union was around when people weren't being put in mental institutions for it in the Western countries.

It did however retain the criminalization of homosexuality, at least in males, throughout the entirety of its existence.

Yes, I am aware of that. And, in hindsight, that was a big mistake.

[Threlizdun]

It did however retain the criminalization of homosexuality, at least in males, throughout the entirety of its existence.

Yes, I am aware of that. And, in hindsight, that was a big mistake.

It's far from the only one they made. I may have no love for the American system of socioeconomic control, but I do not see authoritarian state capitalism as a preferable alternative.

[Koopaville]

Would I be a ruler, or a regular citizen?

[Geanna]

This is a bit of a survey, I suppose, not really sure what conclusions I hope to draw from it; anyway, here goes.

As most of you know, I think the USSR had lots of problems (namely its lack of multicandidate elections hampering Proletarian ownership of the state); however, as I read about the Soviet economic system and consider my prospects for the future, I have come to the conclusion that I would do better under a Soviet system than under the American one. For example, in the current economy, I will have to worry about health insurance, paying a large portion of my income for housing, food, electricity, internet, etc. and, given the major I wish to pursue, my employment prospects don't look like they'd be very good, and I doubt that such expenses could be afforded ( or, at the very least, will leave me with nothing of my own.

However, under a Soviet-style system, healthcare is provided by the state, housing is heavily subsidized (along with university education), and one is guaranteed employment (and in the field I wish to pursue, that is a godsend); thus, in such a system, I would have considerably more economic freedom, contrary to what is often said.

So, what system would be best for you, NSG?

You'll have to forgive me if I bail on the thread for a couple hours, as I'm typing this up at lunch.

Important note: this is referring to the system after the completion of industrialization, so probably a system like the Khrushchev era ( only set in modern times, of course).

EDIT ONE: I changed the poll to allow re- voting.

That's a question almost not worth asking - Unless you're a fundamentalist who is blindly following the Communist ideal, I'd have to go with the American system.

[Mesrane]

American system, in a heartbeat. It's not much of a contest for me.

[Threlizdun]

This is a bit of a survey, I suppose, not really sure what conclusions I hope to draw from it; anyway, here goes.

As most of you know, I think the USSR had lots of problems (namely its lack of multicandidate elections hampering Proletarian ownership of the state); however, as I read about the Soviet economic system and consider my prospects for the future, I have come to the conclusion that I would do better under a Soviet system than under the American one. For example, in the current economy, I will have to worry about health insurance, paying a large portion of my income for housing, food, electricity, internet, etc. and, given the major I wish to pursue, my employment prospects don't look like they'd be very good, and I doubt that such expenses could be afforded ( or, at the very least, will leave me with nothing of my own.

However, under a Soviet-style system, healthcare is provided by the state, housing is heavily subsidized (along with university education), and one is guaranteed employment (and in the field I wish to pursue, that is a godsend); thus, in such a system, I would have considerably more economic freedom, contrary to what is often said.

So, what system would be best for you, NSG?

You'll have to forgive me if I bail on the thread for a couple hours, as I'm typing this up at lunch.

Important note: this is referring to the system after the completion of industrialization, so probably a system like the Khrushchev era ( only set in modern times, of course).

EDIT ONE: I changed the poll to allow re- voting.

That's a question almost not worth asking - Unless you're a fundamentalist who is blindly following the Communist ideal, I'd have to go with the American system.

The answer doesn't really change that much if you're blindly devoted to communism.

[Kubra]

american obv where else can i get caviar for 6 bucks

[Anglo-California]

Say what you want, at least in America, you can say it.

And I don't fancy the idea of secret police and labor camps.

[Mesrane]

Say what you want, at least in America, you can say it.

And I don't fancy the idea of secret police and labor camps.

Me neither

[United Marxist Nations]

This is a bit of a survey, I suppose, not really sure what conclusions I hope to draw from it; anyway, here goes.

As most of you know, I think the USSR had lots of problems (namely its lack of multicandidate elections hampering Proletarian ownership of the state); however, as I read about the Soviet economic system and consider my prospects for the future, I have come to the conclusion that I would do better under a Soviet system than under the American one. For example, in the current economy, I will have to worry about health insurance, paying a large portion of my income for housing, food, electricity, internet, etc. and, given the major I wish to pursue, my employment prospects don't look like they'd be very good, and I doubt that such expenses could be afforded ( or, at the very least, will leave me with nothing of my own.

However, under a Soviet-style system, healthcare is provided by the state, housing is heavily subsidized (along with university education), and one is guaranteed employment (and in the field I wish to pursue, that is a godsend); thus, in such a system, I would have considerably more economic freedom, contrary to what is often said.

So, what system would be best for you, NSG?

You'll have to forgive me if I bail on the thread for a couple hours, as I'm typing this up at lunch.

Important note: this is referring to the system after the completion of industrialization, so probably a system like the Khrushchev era ( only set in modern times, of course).

EDIT ONE: I changed the poll to allow re- voting.

That's a question almost not worth asking - Unless you're a fundamentalist who is blindly following the Communist ideal, I'd have to go with the American system.

I answered that way solely because I think I and many others would have a better quality of life under it. It's not about what's ideal, just a survey to see which one people think they would be better off under economically.

[4years]

I would rather live in the American system, mostly because I predict that I would end up toured, starved, and shot in a modern Stalinist system.

It did however retain the criminalization of homosexuality, at least in males, throughout the entirety of its existence.

Yes, I am aware of that. And, in hindsight, that was a big mistake.

And one that is really hard to justify since Lenin decriminalized homosexuality in the young republic and Bebel was the first major poltical figure to openly demand the legalization of homosexual activity. On other words, the excuse that the rest of the world was largely homophobic cuts no ice since the Soviet leaders had to specificly act to abandon the traditions of socialism and Leninism on this issue- not that going against those traditions ever stopped them anyway, but it shows that they deliberately had to go over to a reactionary position on LGBT rights when a far more progressive option was easly at had whereas the western leaders inherented their reactionary position by defualt?

It's far from the only one they made. I may have no love for the American system of socioeconomic control, but I do not see authoritarian state capitalism as a preferable alternative.

And here I have wandered away from the Goldman-Lenin-Cliff theory of state capitalism to the Trotsky-Grant- arguably Luxemburg view of Proletarian Bonapartism.

What do you think, UNM, can we have it out on this or is it off-topic?

[Constantinopolis]

And I don't fancy the idea of secret police and labor camps.

I would rather live in the American system, mostly because I predict that I would end up toured, starved, and shot in a modern Stalinist system.

The choice isn't between the American system or living under Stalin. The choice is between the American system and the Soviet system, which changed over time, became far less repressive after Stalin's death, and was gradually moving towards more civil liberties before Gorbachev decided to slam on the gas pedal and crashed the car.

I mean, I don't see anyone here saying "I hate the American system, because of Jim Crow laws and widespread lynchings". Why is that? Because those things are in the past, and no one judges the American system based on that past. So why judge the Soviet system based on the Stalin era (which happened at the same time as the Jim Crow laws and widespread lynchings in the US)?

[Gigaverse]

Whichever appreciates my contribution more.

[United Marxist Nations]

I would rather live in the American system, mostly because I predict that I would end up toured, starved, and shot in a modern Stalinist system.

Yes, I am aware of that. And, in hindsight, that was a big mistake.

And one that is really hard to justify since Lenin decriminalized homosexuality in the young republic and Bebel was the first major poltical figure to openly demand the legalization of homosexual activity. On other words, the excuse that the rest of the world was largely homophobic cuts no ice since the Soviet leaders had to specificly act to abandon the traditions of socialism and Leninism on this issue- not that going against those traditions ever stopped them anyway, but it shows that they deliberately had to go over to a reactionary position on LGBT rights when a far more progressive option was easly at had whereas the western leaders inherented their reactionary position by defualt?

It's far from the only one they made. I may have no love for the American system of socioeconomic control, but I do not see authoritarian state capitalism as a preferable alternative.

And here I have wandered away from the Goldman-Lenin-Cliff theory of state capitalism to the Trotsky-Grant- arguably Luxemburg view of Proletarian Bonapartism.

What do you think, UNM, can we have it out on this or is it off-topic?

Go for it, bro.

[Infected Mushroom]

Soviet Union.

There is absolutely nothing worse than the job hunt/interview system in the capitalist system. It SUCKS BIG TIME. I bloody hate that system.

Say what you will about the Soviets, at least they gave people jobs in their heyday. Someone intellectual but introverted and not aggressive is a better fit for the Soviet system than the American one.

Ironically its more of a meritocracy than the US system which just rewards greed, opportunism, aggressiveness, dishonesty, and extraversion. I'd make it much farther in the Soviet bureaucracy through actual tests of real skill. And if I don't, I don't care because I'll always have a job.

Free healthcare, free education sounds good to me.

And screw consumerism. I'll settle for simple things so long as I am allowed to get some paper to do some sketching from time to time.

I also don't care if you don't have the right to vote. Like not at all.

[Balshvik]

With as many problems as I have with the current situation in the USA, there is no way I would ever live in the Soviet Union... in fact they might have wanted someone like me in a Gulag.

(Image)

I don't find this as offense even though I came from Russia. That's Putin's flag heck I might join in to your flag burning party.

[4years]

And I don't fancy the idea of secret police and labor camps.

I would rather live in the American system, mostly because I predict that I would end up toured, starved, and shot in a modern Stalinist system.

The choice isn't between the American system or living under Stalin. The choice is between the American system and the Soviet system, which changed over time, became far less repressive after Stalin's death, and was gradually moving towards more civil liberties before Gorbachev decided to slam on the gas pedal and crashed the car.

I mean, I don't see anyone here saying "I hate the American system, because of Jim Crow laws and widespread lynchings". Why is that? Because those things are in the past, and no one judges the American system based on that past. So why judge the Soviet system based on the Stalin era (which happened at the same time as the Jim Crow laws and widespread lynchings in the US)?

My apologies, I didn't develop that thought properly. Allow me to correct that:

My scenario for a modern Soviet Union is that it would look like the worst days of the purges. Why? Because I don't see the bureaucracy being able to return to the high growth rates of the early days. Rather I would postulate that a modern Soviet Union would have dragged itself through two more decades of utter stagnation, declining influence, and decreases in the standard of living. Therefore I conclude that the bureaucracy could only have held power through the iron first, i.e. by purely pressure measures and a reversal of the movement toward civil liberties. Essentially I would argue that the Soviet Union was played out: the bureaucracy had become to much of an anchor to economic development to allow for a resurgence of growth and that it could only hold onto power through decades of stagnation by crushing dissent underfoot.

[Infected Mushroom]

I know how to survive and thrive in the Soviet system better than the American one.

I know how to be cooperative, silent on politics except where they need to hear a certain opinion, and thrive in meritocratic bureaucracies with varying levels of corruption.

My background in a Christian middle school while surviving as a non-Christian (where they promoted a certain viewpoint while suppressing all other perspectives with the force of the school authority) has prepared me for this.

I can totally imagine myself being a contented middle-ranker in some state bureaucracy related to national security.

I doubt I would ever make it that far in a capitalist system based on self-promotion, loud voices, networking and financial opportunism. These are not my strong point.

[Republic of Coldwater]

I would never ever think about living in the Soviet system. The Soviet system was an utter failure that never has worked and has resulted in perpetual debt and eventual failure. Their GDP, at its peak was only 60% of America's. People lack the basic human rights of free expression and free association. There are constant human rights abuses across the country. The nation also has the notorious gulags, which inhumanely detains people who even slightly disagree with the state for decades. The gulags have been well known to be the root cause of numerous chronic health complications, and some statisticians have linked these gulags to the deaths of dozens of people. Many people in the USSR also starved, and the state controlled economy leads to starvation and famine under many cases. Meanwhile in America, a somewhat Free-Market system, relatively low taxes and Capitalism has led to prosperity. Under Presidents such as JFK and Reagan, the economy prospered, and people were able to enjoy the fruits of their labor, resulting in a hardworking, diligent population. People who worked almost always had bountiful quantities food on their table, people got better education, better healthcare, and better overall services. With stark disparities between a free, prosperous America and a despotic, stagnating USSR, it only makes sense for me to live under America's system.

On a side note, many people fled the USSR to America.