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Would you rather live in the Soviet system or the American?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which system would you be doing better under?

I would have a better life in the American system.
313
80%
I would have a better life in the Soviet system.
79
20%
 
Total votes : 392

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Nationes Pii Redivivi
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6379
Founded: Dec 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Nationes Pii Redivivi » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:24 am

United Marxist Nations wrote:

Imprisoned during the Stalin era. In fact, it says that hi sentence ended the month Stalin died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Soviet_dissidents

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Atlanticatia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5970
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Atlanticatia » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:25 am

The whole, you know, authoritarianism thing, gulags, and state censorship don't really appeal to me. You can find universal health care and subsidized education and housing in many of the (capitalist) social democracies of the world.. I mean, I don't think you need to live in the USSR to receive public services and social benefits.
Last edited by Atlanticatia on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Economic Left/Right: -5.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.95

Pros: social democracy, LGBT+ rights, pro-choice, free education and health care, environmentalism, Nordic model, secularism, welfare state, multiculturalism
Cons: social conservatism, neoliberalism, hate speech, racism, sexism, 'right-to-work' laws, religious fundamentalism
i'm a dual american-new zealander previously lived in the northeast US, now living in new zealand. university student.
Social Democrat and Progressive.
Hanna Nilsen, Leader of the SDP. Equality, Prosperity, and Opportunity: The Social Democratic Party

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United Marxist Nations
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33804
Founded: Dec 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:25 am

The New Sea Territory wrote:There should be a neither option.

Both are extreme bastardizations of relatively decent economic systems, due to authoritarianism and corruption.

That's not the point if the thread; I even said in the OP that I am a critic of the Soviet system.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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Ruridova
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15860
Founded: Jun 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Ruridova » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:25 am

Calisu wrote:
Ruridova wrote:Personally, I think my life would be better under the system I presently live in, the American one. Under the Soviet system, I would probably wind up in trouble with the KGB for not toeing the party line.

Hows that universal healthcare treating you? Oh wait...

Guess I'll have to settle for the basic rights of free thought and self-expression.
Республіка Рюрідова - Королівство Вілкія
"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink; I was a stranger and you invited me in; I needed clothes and you clothed me; I was sick and you looked after me; I was in prison and you came to visit me... Truly, whatever you did for one of the least of my brothers and sisters, you did for me."
- the Gospel of Matthew, 25:35-40

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Communal Ecotopia
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Posts: 1730
Founded: Feb 27, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Communal Ecotopia » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:26 am

United Marxist Nations wrote:

Can you give examples from that era from that article about people being punished for criticism?


However, censorship was not completely absent from this era. Emmanuil Kazakevich’s 1962 novel, “Spring on the Oder,” was posthumously injected in 1963 with descriptions of American bigotry, selfishness, and racism which was not in the novel originally.[6] These examples of Anti-Westernization indicate that works were still expurgated for propaganda, but censorship declined with Khrushchev’s de-Stalinization. Also, Dr. Zhivago was refused publication in 1957 and had to be published from Milan. When Pasternak was awarded the Nobel Prize, he could not freely travel to accept it in 1958.
Political Compass -10, -9.28

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United Marxist Nations
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33804
Founded: Dec 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:26 am

Nationes Pii Redivivi wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:Imprisoned during the Stalin era. In fact, it says that hi sentence ended the month Stalin died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Soviet_dissidents

That page doesn't prove anything; you're supposed to prove punishment, not that there was dissidents, in the era.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

User avatar
United Marxist Nations
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33804
Founded: Dec 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:27 am

Ruridova wrote:
Calisu wrote:Hows that universal healthcare treating you? Oh wait...

Guess I'll have to settle for the basic rights of free thought and self-expression.

I'd rather have healthcare, myself.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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Elam-Kurdistan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 861
Founded: Jun 21, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Elam-Kurdistan » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:28 am

Soviet Union, I think I coulkd have done quite well for myself in the USSR, Politburo member or KGB General perhaps. Maybe even leader.
R.I.P Tuva SSR, Unjustly deleted on 30/8/2014
The Crimes of America: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 8437,d.d2s

I don't care if I fall as long as someone else picks up my gun and keeps on shooting.
Che Guevara

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Fenexia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Aug 14, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Fenexia » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:29 am

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Ruridova wrote:Guess I'll have to settle for the basic rights of free thought and self-expression.

I'd rather have healthcare, myself.

to be fairly honest, THEIR universal healthcare wasnt that great.

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United Marxist Nations
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33804
Founded: Dec 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:29 am

Communal Ecotopia wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:Can you give examples from that era from that article about people being punished for criticism?


However, censorship was not completely absent from this era. Emmanuil Kazakevich’s 1962 novel, “Spring on the Oder,” was posthumously injected in 1963 with descriptions of American bigotry, selfishness, and racism which was not in the novel originally.[6] These examples of Anti-Westernization indicate that works were still expurgated for propaganda, but censorship declined with Khrushchev’s de-Stalinization. Also, Dr. Zhivago was refused publication in 1957 and had to be published from Milan. When Pasternak was awarded the Nobel Prize, he could not freely travel to accept it in 1958.

Not getting to go get a Nobel Prize is a bit different from the punishments he was implying; however, I didn't specify, so you get a cookie.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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MERIZoC
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:31 am

I wouldn't mind living in the Soviet system for a bit, just to see what it was like.

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Communal Ecotopia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1730
Founded: Feb 27, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Communal Ecotopia » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:31 am

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Communal Ecotopia wrote:
However, censorship was not completely absent from this era. Emmanuil Kazakevich’s 1962 novel, “Spring on the Oder,” was posthumously injected in 1963 with descriptions of American bigotry, selfishness, and racism which was not in the novel originally.[6] These examples of Anti-Westernization indicate that works were still expurgated for propaganda, but censorship declined with Khrushchev’s de-Stalinization. Also, Dr. Zhivago was refused publication in 1957 and had to be published from Milan. When Pasternak was awarded the Nobel Prize, he could not freely travel to accept it in 1958.

Not getting to go get a Nobel Prize is a bit different from the punishments he was implying; however, I didn't specify, so you get a cookie.


Still stifling freedom of expression...and thank you.
Political Compass -10, -9.28

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United Marxist Nations
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33804
Founded: Dec 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:31 am

Fenexia wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:I'd rather have healthcare, myself.

to be fairly honest, THEIR universal healthcare wasnt that great.

It wasn't that bad; in fact, IIRC, their life expectancy was higher than that of the US for a long time, and Cuba's still is.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

User avatar
Atlanticatia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5970
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Atlanticatia » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:33 am

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Fenexia wrote:to be fairly honest, THEIR universal healthcare wasnt that great.

It wasn't that bad; in fact, IIRC, their life expectancy was higher than that of the US for a long time, and Cuba's still is.


Most developed countries in the world have universal healthcare. It's not unique to the USSR or Cuba.
Economic Left/Right: -5.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.95

Pros: social democracy, LGBT+ rights, pro-choice, free education and health care, environmentalism, Nordic model, secularism, welfare state, multiculturalism
Cons: social conservatism, neoliberalism, hate speech, racism, sexism, 'right-to-work' laws, religious fundamentalism
i'm a dual american-new zealander previously lived in the northeast US, now living in new zealand. university student.
Social Democrat and Progressive.
Hanna Nilsen, Leader of the SDP. Equality, Prosperity, and Opportunity: The Social Democratic Party

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Ruridova
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15860
Founded: Jun 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Ruridova » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:33 am

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Ruridova wrote:Guess I'll have to settle for the basic rights of free thought and self-expression.

I'd rather have healthcare, myself.

I'd like healthcare too, but in the US I can say that the government should change shit. Not so in the USSR.
Республіка Рюрідова - Королівство Вілкія
"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink; I was a stranger and you invited me in; I needed clothes and you clothed me; I was sick and you looked after me; I was in prison and you came to visit me... Truly, whatever you did for one of the least of my brothers and sisters, you did for me."
- the Gospel of Matthew, 25:35-40

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Calimera II
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8790
Founded: Jan 03, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:36 am

American system. Soviet system is simply shit.

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Valkalan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1599
Founded: Jun 26, 2009
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Valkalan » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:36 am

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Valkalan wrote:Do I want a modicum of freedom with the opportunity to enrich myself or do I want to be repressed and starving? Let me think. Obviously, the American system is by far the more palatable. And seeing as how I do in fact live in the US, I know for a fact that the problems exist within the US system are easily manageable.

Find one famine the USSR experienced following the end if the War famine of '48 (called that because it was caused by war damage).

Is that so? All I see is incompetent economic management, at best.
Last edited by Valkalan on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
वज्रमात अस्ता रिजथम


The Directorate of Valkalan is a federation of autonomous city-states which operate a joint military and share uniform commercial and civil law and a common foreign policy, and which is characterized by wealth, intrigue, and advanced technology.

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Kubrath
Minister
 
Posts: 2039
Founded: Feb 23, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Kubrath » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:38 am

If everyone had the professions they wanted, no one would work as a cleaner or a garbage man. Guaranteed profession of one's choice is a poison to a country's economy as is the lack of competition.
Kubrath Embassy Program
If your commanders are surprised every time they lose a squad, they probably die several minutes into a campaign due to being critically over-gasped.

North Valinka: What kind of an oxymoron is "Libertarian Police State"?
Petroviya: It arrests law makers.

Phocidaea wrote:Maybe democracy isn't the way?

Of course democracy is the way, dammit! There is no such thing as too much democracy!

Fuckin' dictatorships.

Sociobiology wrote:This is the problem with trying to understand the universe with a brain evolved to find ripe fruit and scream defiance at the ape in the next tree.

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Fenexia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Aug 14, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Fenexia » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:39 am

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Fenexia wrote:to be fairly honest, THEIR universal healthcare wasnt that great.

It wasn't that bad; in fact, IIRC, their life expectancy was higher than that of the US for a long time, and Cuba's still is.

source? let me guess, castro himself?
Last edited by Fenexia on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53349
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:39 am

Neither, but if I had to choose; American.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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The Grey Wolf
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32675
Founded: May 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Grey Wolf » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:42 am

Neither, I despise both.

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Calimera II
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8790
Founded: Jan 03, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:43 am

Merizoc wrote:I wouldn't mind living in the Soviet system for a bit, just to see what it was like.

Shit. It was pure shit.

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Malgrave
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5719
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Malgrave » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:44 am

Neither. I'd rather live in Atlee's economic system.
Frenequesta wrote:Well-dressed mad scientists with an edge.

United Kingdom of Malgrave (1910-)
Population: 331 million
GDP Per Capita: 42,000 dollars
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Kubrath
Minister
 
Posts: 2039
Founded: Feb 23, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Kubrath » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:48 am

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Ruridova wrote:Guess I'll have to settle for the basic rights of free thought and self-expression.

I'd rather have healthcare, myself.


With their dogmatic acceptance of bs science, I doubt your healthcare would be any better than visiting a witchdoctor.
Kubrath Embassy Program
If your commanders are surprised every time they lose a squad, they probably die several minutes into a campaign due to being critically over-gasped.

North Valinka: What kind of an oxymoron is "Libertarian Police State"?
Petroviya: It arrests law makers.

Phocidaea wrote:Maybe democracy isn't the way?

Of course democracy is the way, dammit! There is no such thing as too much democracy!

Fuckin' dictatorships.

Sociobiology wrote:This is the problem with trying to understand the universe with a brain evolved to find ripe fruit and scream defiance at the ape in the next tree.

User avatar
Kelinfort
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:49 am

Do I get freedom of speech, press, assembly, right to refuse unauthorised search and seizure along with the right to a fair and just trial?

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