Would you rather live in the Soviet system or the American?

[Roski]

Only when an example was needed. It wasn't as "Godless" as the West made it seem...

" By 1941 only 500 churches remained open out of about 54,000 in existence prior to World War I."

Yes, churches were closed, but you do not need a church to worship a god.

[United Marxist Nations]

It's not the government handing it to you, it is giving you those things in exchange for your labor. As for education and promising employment, it was the Soviet system's duty to ensure that its people had what was necessary to make it. I don't really like the prospect of not having many employment options (and therefore no options at all).

I guess it comes down to priorities. Personally, I value social freedom over amenities like that.

No way to tell what the USSR would have done, since the big progress in the study of LBGT stuff happened largely after the fall of the USSR, but it seems reasonable to think that the USSR would have liberalized in that area along with the rest of the world.

Just like Russia did?

1) Personal freedoms are worthless if you have nothing to do with them. What can you do if you have no job, house, healthcare, or the like?
2) Russia =/= USSR.

[Kelinfort]

You know, if I had the political freedoms of the US, I might consider it.

[Geilinor]

1. Owning a business

That wasn't so much a crime as it was an impossibility. There was no option to legally start a business, or privately own one, or enter into legal business contracts. You could try to start an informal black market business, of course, but that's different. And the penalty for black market activity was a fine and the confiscation of your black market goods, or prison time in the worst cases. Certainly not death.

2. Distributing banned material
3. Opposition to the people's Soviets decisions
4. Political dissension.
Etc.

The standard penalty for doing those things in the late USSR was being denied promotions in your workplace - in other words being stuck in an entry-level job for your whole life.

Being denied progress in a job because I disagree with the government isn't attractive, but it did happen in the United States due to McCarthyism.

[United Marxist Nations]

That wasn't so much a crime as it was an impossibility. There was no option to legally start a business, or privately own one, or enter into legal business contracts. You could try to start an informal black market business, of course, but that's different. And the penalty for black market activity was a fine and the confiscation of your black market goods, or prison time in the worst cases. Certainly not death.


The standard penalty for doing those things in the late USSR was being denied promotions in your workplace - in other words being stuck in an entry-level job for your whole life.

Being denied progress in a job because I disagree with the government isn't attractive, but it did happen in the United States due to McCarthyism.

He meant if you voiced it a lot; you could have private disagreement with it all you wanted.

[Geilinor]

I'd rather have the freedom to achieve those myself than have the government hand me it.

It's not the government handing it to you, it is giving you those things in exchange for your labor. As for education and promising employment, it was the Soviet system's duty to ensure that its people had what was necessary to make it. I don't really like the prospect of not having many employment options (and therefore no options at all).

There weren't necessarily many employment options in the Soviet system. They promised you any employment, but no chance of anything over the basics.

[Arkolon]

The Soviet system. From there I could help people escape the country and flee to the US. They'd probably give me a Nobel Peace Prize for that, too.

[Alyakia]

Being denied progress in a job because I disagree with the government isn't attractive, but it did happen in the United States due to McCarthyism.

He meant if you voiced it a lot; you could have private disagreement with it all you wanted.

meaningless.

[United Marxist Nations]

It's not the government handing it to you, it is giving you those things in exchange for your labor. As for education and promising employment, it was the Soviet system's duty to ensure that its people had what was necessary to make it. I don't really like the prospect of not having many employment options (and therefore no options at all).

There weren't necessarily many employment options in the Soviet system. They promised you any employment, but no chance of anything over the basics.

There aren't necessarily many in the US either. There are jobs in what they need, which would largely be the same. I would hope they would have openings for what I would have. However, in my state, there seems to be no need for people with the degree I plan to get.

[Geilinor]

Being denied progress in a job because I disagree with the government isn't attractive, but it did happen in the United States due to McCarthyism.

He meant if you voiced it a lot; you could have private disagreement with it all you wanted.

You couldn't say you wanted to change a policy and run for political office or publish an independent newspaper.

[United Marxist Nations]

He meant if you voiced it a lot; you could have private disagreement with it all you wanted.

You couldn't say you wanted to change a policy and run for political office.

Running for political office is way more difficult than you make it sound, unless you're running for a local office in a fairly small community. And even then, you could do that in the USSR by becoming a Party member.

See this for some of the stuff I'm talking about in the US (even though it's a comedy site, they make comedy out of informative articles that are sourced): http://www.cracked.com/article_20705_5- ... think.html

[Geilinor]

There weren't necessarily many employment options in the Soviet system. They promised you any employment, but no chance of anything over the basics.

There aren't necessarily many in the US either. There are jobs in what they need, which would largely be the same. I would hope they would have openings for what I would have. However, in my state, there seems to be no need for people with the degree I plan to get.

If we're comparing the Soviet system and the American system during the Cold War, the US economy was generally stronger then than it is now.

[United Marxist Nations]

There aren't necessarily many in the US either. There are jobs in what they need, which would largely be the same. I would hope they would have openings for what I would have. However, in my state, there seems to be no need for people with the degree I plan to get.

If we're comparing the Soviet system and the American system during the Cold War, the US economy was generally stronger then than it is now.

We're comparing a hypothetical Soviets system now to the American system now.

[Geilinor]

You couldn't say you wanted to change a policy and run for political office.

Running for political office is way more difficult than you make it sound, unless you're running for a local office in a fairly small community. And even then, you could do that in the USSR by becoming a Party member.

See this for some of the stuff I'm talking about in the US (even though it's a comedy site, they make comedy out of informative articles that are sourced): http://www.cracked.com/article_20705_5- ... think.html

Would you rather have flawed democracy or no democracy at all?

[United Marxist Nations]

Running for political office is way more difficult than you make it sound, unless you're running for a local office in a fairly small community. And even then, you could do that in the USSR by becoming a Party member.

See this for some of the stuff I'm talking about in the US (even though it's a comedy site, they make comedy out of informative articles that are sourced): http://www.cracked.com/article_20705_5- ... think.html

Would you rather have flawed democracy or no democracy at all?

From what I understand, the local elections in the USSR were fairly free and fair. As for the question, I would prefer to actually have a decent living over that question.

[Camelza]

The Soviet system. From there I could help people escape the country and flee to the US. They'd probably give me a Nobel Peace Prize for that, too.

That, or you'd end up rotting in a re-education center for being an enemy of the state(in more than one way ).

[Boring People]

With as many problems as I have with the current situation in the USA, there is no way I would ever live in the Soviet Union... in fact they might have wanted someone like me in a Gulag.

[Roski]

With as many problems as I have with the current situation in the USA, there is no way I would ever live in the Soviet Union... in fact they might have wanted someone like me in a Gulag.

(Image)

So you have a picture of you buring the flag of the main Successor state?

[Imperializt Russia]

There aren't necessarily many in the US either. There are jobs in what they need, which would largely be the same. I would hope they would have openings for what I would have. However, in my state, there seems to be no need for people with the degree I plan to get.

If we're comparing the Soviet system and the American system during the Cold War, the US economy was generally stronger then than it is now.

Economic strength is something that doesn't translate well between a free market economy and a planned economy, is it?

Running for political office is way more difficult than you make it sound, unless you're running for a local office in a fairly small community. And even then, you could do that in the USSR by becoming a Party member.

See this for some of the stuff I'm talking about in the US (even though it's a comedy site, they make comedy out of informative articles that are sourced): http://www.cracked.com/article_20705_5- ... think.html

Would you rather have flawed democracy or no democracy at all?

I have my moods where I would like to tear down democracy and install a one-party oligarchy (nothing to do with the ex-Soviet "oligarchs") whose posts were staffed by a technocratic lottery by sortition.

[Solaray]

With as many problems as I have with the current situation in the USA, there is no way I would ever live in the Soviet Union... in fact they might have wanted someone like me in a Gulag.

(Image)

Wrong flag dude

[Imperializt Russia]

With as many problems as I have with the current situation in the USA, there is no way I would ever live in the Soviet Union... in fact they might have wanted someone like me in a Gulag.

(Image)

Wrong flag dude

Those poor, misunderstood Belgians.

[Boring People]

With as many problems as I have with the current situation in the USA, there is no way I would ever live in the Soviet Union... in fact they might have wanted someone like me in a Gulag.

(Image)

Wrong flag dude

Eh... close enough for me. I had trouble finding a soviet flag burning and I'm not about to draw one right now.

[The NAR]

This is a bit of a survey, I suppose, not really sure what conclusions I hope to draw from it; anyway, here goes.

As most of you know, I think the USSR had lots of problems (namely its lack of multicandidate elections hampering Proletarian ownership of the state); however, as I read about the Soviet economic system and consider my prospects for the future, I have come to the conclusion that I would do better under a Soviet system than under the American one. For example, in the current economy, I will have to worry about health insurance, paying a large portion of my income for housing, food, electricity, internet, etc. and, given the major I wish to pursue, my employment prospects don't look like they'd be very good, and I doubt that such expenses could be afforded ( or, at the very least, will leave me with nothing of my own.

However, under a Soviet-style system, healthcare is provided by the state, housing is heavily subsidized (along with university education), and one is guaranteed employment (and in the field I wish to pursue, that is a godsend); thus, in such a system, I would have considerably more economic freedom, contrary to what is often said.

So, what system would be best for you, NSG?

You'll have to forgive me if I bail on the thread for a couple hours, as I'm typing this up at lunch.

Important note: this is referring to the system after the completion of industrialization, so probably a system like the Khrushchev era ( only set in modern times, of course).

EDIT ONE: I changed the poll to allow re- voting.

I am American so..... American system. It has problems, I know, but the PURE American system is great.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!

[Imperializt Russia]

More importantly, why is Carrot Top burning it.

[United Marxist Nations]

This is a bit of a survey, I suppose, not really sure what conclusions I hope to draw from it; anyway, here goes.

As most of you know, I think the USSR had lots of problems (namely its lack of multicandidate elections hampering Proletarian ownership of the state); however, as I read about the Soviet economic system and consider my prospects for the future, I have come to the conclusion that I would do better under a Soviet system than under the American one. For example, in the current economy, I will have to worry about health insurance, paying a large portion of my income for housing, food, electricity, internet, etc. and, given the major I wish to pursue, my employment prospects don't look like they'd be very good, and I doubt that such expenses could be afforded ( or, at the very least, will leave me with nothing of my own.

However, under a Soviet-style system, healthcare is provided by the state, housing is heavily subsidized (along with university education), and one is guaranteed employment (and in the field I wish to pursue, that is a godsend); thus, in such a system, I would have considerably more economic freedom, contrary to what is often said.

So, what system would be best for you, NSG?

You'll have to forgive me if I bail on the thread for a couple hours, as I'm typing this up at lunch.

Important note: this is referring to the system after the completion of industrialization, so probably a system like the Khrushchev era ( only set in modern times, of course).

EDIT ONE: I changed the poll to allow re- voting.

I am American so..... American system. It has problems, I know, but the PURE American system is great.
http://www.creer-une-web-serie.fr/wp-co ... cement.jpg
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!

I'm an American as well, and what do you mean by "pure"? The whole thing seems to offer not a lot of opportunity.