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by Political Wisdom » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:00 am

by Slavonian kingdom » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:00 am

by Laerod » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:01 am
Lyttenburg wrote:Hey, lingustics-expert - can you differentiate a Kharkiv native from the Belgorod region native when they speak Russian? I've trouble - and I was in Kharkiv, and served together with guys from Belgorod.

by Lyttenburg » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:01 am
Lemanrussland wrote:The 12 point ceasefire plan that was negotiated in Belarus has been announced. There will be prisoner exchanges and a promise of federalization for the eastern territories.
The seperatists/Russian troops in southeast Ukraine began shelling the satellite towns of Mariupol in the hours before the ceasefire was called.
Almost everyone is expressing caution/measured optimism over the ceasefire, and the rebels have said the ceasefire is only an immediate measure to stop the bloodshed, they still intend to establish an independent pro-Russian state, by force if necessary. The ceasefire is to be monitored by the OSCE.

by Slavonian kingdom » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:02 am
Lyttenburg wrote:Slavonian kingdom wrote:I feel sorry for the Russians. They have always been second class citizens in their own country for the last 150 years.
Thank you, but I don't need you false pity, as neither me, nor anyone who I know consider themselves a "second class citizens in their own country for the last 150 years".
And why 150 years? Why not 500?

by Farnhamia » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:03 am
Slavonian kingdom wrote:Lyttenburg wrote:
Thank you, but I don't need you false pity, as neither me, nor anyone who I know consider themselves a "second class citizens in their own country for the last 150 years".
And why 150 years? Why not 500?
Well, it is ok, you don't know better than living under a dictatorship or crony capitalism.

by Laerod » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:04 am
United Marxist Nations wrote:The referendum may very well be fair: according to a Pew Research poll, 88% of Crimeans want Kiev to recognize the referendum. That, coupled with those opposing the referendum boycotting, could have easily led to the result.
Edit: source. Also, the turnout was in the 80%+, so that makes my theory quite possible.

by Slavonian kingdom » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:05 am

by Washington Resistance Army » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:06 am
United Marxist Nations wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The rebels must have gotten their fake ballots from somewhere, maybe it was Tsar Vlad? As for your second statement, me saying Russia should hold an actual referendum with real observers (not ultra nationalists who oppose anything relating to NATO or the EU) has nothing to do with Russian troops turning away the few non biased observers that showed up. I was saying Russia should let the UN organize and hold a referendum in Crimea where people aren't held at gunpoint and actually let them have a free vote to see what they want. But we both know the Dear Leader won't allow such banderist things to happen.
The referendum may very well be fair: according to a Pew Research poll, 88% of Crimeans want Kiev to recognize the referendum. That, coupled with those opposing the referendum boycotting, could have easily led to the result.
Edit: source. Also, the turnout was in the 80%+, so that makes my theory quite possible.

by Dragomerian Islands » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:11 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:The referendum may very well be fair: according to a Pew Research poll, 88% of Crimeans want Kiev to recognize the referendum. That, coupled with those opposing the referendum boycotting, could have easily led to the result.
Edit: source. Also, the turnout was in the 80%+, so that makes my theory quite possible.
That's odd, how do you explain this?
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by United Marxist Nations » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:11 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:The referendum may very well be fair: according to a Pew Research poll, 88% of Crimeans want Kiev to recognize the referendum. That, coupled with those opposing the referendum boycotting, could have easily led to the result.
Edit: source. Also, the turnout was in the 80%+, so that makes my theory quite possible.
That's odd, how do you explain this?
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

by Jinwoy » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:12 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:The referendum may very well be fair: according to a Pew Research poll, 88% of Crimeans want Kiev to recognize the referendum. That, coupled with those opposing the referendum boycotting, could have easily led to the result.
Edit: source. Also, the turnout was in the 80%+, so that makes my theory quite possible.
That's odd, how do you explain this?

by United Marxist Nations » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:12 am
Laerod wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:The referendum may very well be fair: according to a Pew Research poll, 88% of Crimeans want Kiev to recognize the referendum. That, coupled with those opposing the referendum boycotting, could have easily led to the result.
Edit: source. Also, the turnout was in the 80%+, so that makes my theory quite possible.
No. Whether it actually manages to reflect public opinion has no impact on its legality. Not to mention there's severe doubts regarding the turnout raised by the President of Russia's Council on Civil Society and Human Rights.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

by Washington Resistance Army » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:15 am
Jinwoy wrote:
Ah yes, the Presidents Human Rights council statement. The one which was up for a good 24 hours before being taken down and still didn't get indexed, or cached, or can not be found anywhere on the internet. Is that the statement the source is referring to?

by Dragomerian Islands » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:17 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Dragomerian Islands wrote:Propaganda that is spreading mistruths.
Ah yes, the ebul banderist propaganda machine is at work. Somehow posting things on a Russian government website, maybe they're using the same black magic that allowed an SU-25 to shoot down MH-17.Jinwoy wrote:
Ah yes, the Presidents Human Rights council statement. The one which was up for a good 24 hours before being taken down and still didn't get indexed, or cached, or can not be found anywhere on the internet. Is that the statement the source is referring to?
Indeed it is, it even has a screen cap of the text and a horridly translated version. Speaking of, if someone could better translate the Russian text better than Google that would be appreciated.
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by Lyttenburg » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:22 am
United Marxist Nations wrote:Then what would have made the referendum legal? Many states that exist today were illegally created.

by Washington Resistance Army » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:26 am
Dragomerian Islands wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Ah yes, the ebul banderist propaganda machine is at work. Somehow posting things on a Russian government website, maybe they're using the same black magic that allowed an SU-25 to shoot down MH-17.
Indeed it is, it even has a screen cap of the text and a horridly translated version. Speaking of, if someone could better translate the Russian text better than Google that would be appreciated.
Where is your proof that that page even existed, besides that article. It would have been archived somewhere if it truly existed; however, no such archival exists.
For some reason this doesn't seem like something a business magazine would cook up.
by Laerod » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:26 am
United Marxist Nations wrote:Laerod wrote:No. Whether it actually manages to reflect public opinion has no impact on its legality. Not to mention there's severe doubts regarding the turnout raised by the President of Russia's Council on Civil Society and Human Rights.
Then what would have made the referendum legal?
Many states that exist today were illegally created.

by Dragomerian Islands » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:29 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Dragomerian Islands wrote:Where is your proof that that page even existed, besides that article. It would have been archived somewhere if it truly existed; however, no such archival exists.
Do you really expect me to believe Forbes made a fake screencap of the text and an even worse translationFor some reason this doesn't seem like something a business magazine would cook up.
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by Napkiraly » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:29 am
United Marxist Nations wrote:Laerod wrote:No. Whether it actually manages to reflect public opinion has no impact on its legality. Not to mention there's severe doubts regarding the turnout raised by the President of Russia's Council on Civil Society and Human Rights.
Then what would have made the referendum legal? Many states that exist today were illegally created.

by United Marxist Nations » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:31 am
Laerod wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:Then what would have made the referendum legal?
Would you actually listen if I told you? Would you genuinely change your mind if I pointed out to you what exactly was wrong with the referendum?
I'm willing to educate people on this but so far I'm underwhelmed by the willingness to learn. So don't see this as a dodge. See this as me genuinely asking if you're intellectually honest enough to handle a criticism of the referendum because for the past couple hours I have been debating someone that clearly is not.Many states that exist today were illegally created.
There's that stupid historical tu quoque fallacy again.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

by Dragomerian Islands » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:31 am
Napkiraly wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:Then what would have made the referendum legal? Many states that exist today were illegally created.
Kiev agreeing to it. Kiev did not approve of a referendum. Have the Ukrainian government agree to a referendum, have a proper debate/time period for campaigning, allow neutral outside watchdogs to ensure both sides keep shenanigans to a minimum. After that, the results will be the results.
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by Farnhamia » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:32 am
Dragomerian Islands wrote:
Just about anyone proficient in photoshop can make a fake screenshot.
Also, do you rally think that a government would publish one result and then make another different result available for such people to post online?

by Napkiraly » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:32 am
Dragomerian Islands wrote:Napkiraly wrote:Kiev agreeing to it. Kiev did not approve of a referendum. Have the Ukrainian government agree to a referendum, have a proper debate/time period for campaigning, allow neutral outside watchdogs to ensure both sides keep shenanigans to a minimum. After that, the results will be the results.
You do not need government approval for a referendum.

by Washington Resistance Army » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:35 am
Farnhamia wrote:Dragomerian Islands wrote:Just about anyone proficient in photoshop can make a fake screenshot.
Also, do you rally think that a government would publish one result and then make another different result available for such people to post online?
I think the point is that the bad-looking result was published by mistake and hurriedly withdrawn, though not before someone at Forbes found it. Forbes is a fairly prestigious organization, why would they bother faking such a thing, considering the damage it could do to their reputation if it were discovered?
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