Smacking Your Children is Good For Them

[The Serbian Empire]

If it worked for our ancestors......why doesn't it work for us?

Science moves forwards and proved it never really did work for our ancestors and any thing of it working was really due to anxiety being caused by it keeping the kids in line out of fear.

[Rebellious Fishermen]

It's not fear... it was respect. I respected him. Yeah, maybe it isn't the right case to use for every child, but it is the right move for some of them. Use common sense.

With all due respect my common sense is supported by statistics, respected by psychologists, and actually makes ethical sense. Meanwhile, apparently your common sense is the sort of sense people use to justify beating their children.

And that 'respect'? That's fear, all right.

Are you telling me I don't remember my own emotions?

Man this is getting good.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

If it worked for our ancestors......why doesn't it work for us?

Science moves forwards and proved it never really did work for our ancestors and any thing of it working was really due to anxiety being caused by it keeping the kids in line out of fear.

Would it be wrong to say that corporal punishment and authoritarianism are tangentially related?

[Pimps Inc]

If it worked for our ancestors......why doesn't it work for us?

Science moves forwards and proved it never really did work for our ancestors and any thing of it working was really due to anxiety being caused by it keeping the kids in line out of fear.

Corporeal punishment was widely used back then.They all grew up fine and got jobs(in the fields,politics, whatever) like any normal person should.Thats a success in my Logic Book.

[Threlizdun]

With all due respect my common sense is supported by statistics, respected by psychologists, and actually makes ethical sense. Meanwhile, apparently your common sense is the sort of sense people use to justify beating their children.

And that 'respect'? That's fear, all right.

Are you telling me I don't remember my own emotions?

Man this is getting good.

Are you telling us you understand mental health better than psychologists? Man, this is getting good.

[Vicious Debaters]

Are you telling me I don't remember my own emotions?

Man this is getting good.

No, I'm telling you that when responded to physical intimidation or force, people will feel fear- thus leading to an unhealthy relationship.

Maybe you feel like you learned from it, I'm not discussing your specific instance because I haven't witnessed your life. But in general, corporeal punishment is a no-no.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

Science moves forwards and proved it never really did work for our ancestors and any thing of it working was really due to anxiety being caused by it keeping the kids in line out of fear.

Corporal punishment was widely used back then.They all grew up fine and got jobs(in the fields,politics, whatever) like any normal person should.Thats a success in my Logic Book.

And they beat their kids and thought atheists were evil, women should do as men tell them to, that foreigners deserved to be enslaved, etc., etc.,...
but you don't care! You just want to pass on this evil practice to your children, ad infinitum!

[Forsher]

I think there is potentially a place for a friendly sort of flick or clip and at most (and this is dubious) a single slap. On principle, therefore, I don't think the law did much... although that may be because so many of our big news stories are about child abuse. But, in all honesty, I don't know much about it or its effectiveness.

[Pimps Inc]

Corporal punishment was widely used back then.They all grew up fine and got jobs(in the fields,politics, whatever) like any normal person should.Thats a success in my Logic Book.

And they beat their kids and thought atheists were evil, women should do as men tell them to, that foreigners deserved to be enslaved, etc., etc.,...
but you don't care! You just want to pass on this evil practice to your children, ad infinitum!

Now religious beliefs and morals are one thing.Being able to grow and become a member of society is another thing.
What about Rome?

[The United Colonies of Earth]

And they beat their kids and thought atheists were evil, women should do as men tell them to, that foreigners deserved to be enslaved, etc., etc.,...
but you don't care! You just want to pass on this evil practice to your children, ad infinitum!

Now religious beliefs and morals are one thing.Being able to grow and become a member of society is another thing.
What about Rome?

In that society they're still functioning "normally".
What is your point? That Romans beat their kids and still made an Empire? Yeah, I don't doubt that. I'm just doubting the morality. After all, to bring up Godwin's cousin, Stalin killed millions of Russians and others before World War II. Yet he swiftly and brutally industrialized Russia. And it's likely that Russians practiced corporal punishment.
Ultimately those who endorse and experienced corporal punishment may see anything that is disobedient as deserving a smackdown, and act accordingly. That's the issue I see in it.

[Rebellious Fishermen]

Are you telling me I don't remember my own emotions?

Man this is getting good.

No, I'm telling you that when responded to physical intimidation or force, people will feel fear- thus leading to an unhealthy relationship.

Maybe you feel like you learned from it, I'm not discussing your specific instance because I haven't witnessed your life. But in general, corporeal punishment is a no-no.

For some children it's not an effective method to use, but for others it is. Take it on a case by case basis. Hopefully the parent is educated enough to understand when to use corporeal punishment and when not to, and to use it sparingly. And if the data says that in general it's not a good method, then perhaps in general it's not, but that doesn't specify all cases and not every parent should be strapped by the law because of it.

Anyway that's all I really have to say on it.

[Pimps Inc]

Was Stalin beaten as a kid?Serious question here.Im wondering......

[Totalise]

I was spanked as a child, I have turned out fine so far. no murders, or drugs

[Dajing (Ancient)]

I don't think violence should be used against children, and I don't think psychological questions should be necessary to adhere to that.

[Solaray]

To a small degree, it's probably alright. But according to the majority of psychologists, it's far from the best way to handle your kids. So I guess I'll go with them, and say it should be generally avoided.

[-The Trade Federation-]

I consider the people who say corporal punishment (or "spanking") is psychologically bad pitiful.

I was spanked by mother many times (for good reasons). Actually, I still get spanked once or twice a week...and I am nearing 16 years of age.

It didn't affect me in any way. At all.

[Dajing (Ancient)]

Actually, I still get spanked once or twice a week...and I am nearing 16 years of age.

You may have a problem.

[Luziyca]

While I think a spanking for a young child every now and then they mess up, bad, helps them, I don't think it prevents suicide or prostitution.

This.

[Socialist Tera]

Great way of victim blaming, I was physically abused as a child, it only taught me fear and anger, not how to behave. Children don't learn by getting hit.

[Nervium]

Was Stalin beaten as a kid?Serious question here.Im wondering......

Yes, he apperently was.

So, if you want your kid to become a genocidal egotistical maniac, vote Saafi!

[Great Kleomentia]

I was never smacked and I still behaved.

This. I've never received a smack and yet i am disciplined and know respect. Funny how that works.

[Aquillus]

Because it prevents them fro committing suicide, going into prostitution or catching sexually transmitted diseases:

The anti-smacking law is to blame for youth suicide, youth prostitution and even sexually-transmitted infections, a leading Conservative party candidate claims.

Edward Saafi, who is fifth on the Conservative list and would be elected if they break the 5 per cent threshold, has delivered the striking message during recent speeches at Tongan churches, Fairfax has learned.

"We are starting to recognise the incidence of suicide going up in Pacific communities, especially the Tongan community and people are starting to understand the lead-on from this legislation.

"Once you pass it, children, rather than doing what mum and dad says, they go and commit suicide. It opens up another thing they could do," Saafi, who holds a doctorate in biomedicine, said.

Asked if he thought there was a direct link between the anti-smacking bill and youth suicide, Saafi said: "It's just common sense, really. It's our way of thinking parents have a role to look after their kids, including disciplining them. If the law tells the child that mum and dad can't discipline you any more, they will do whatever they want, including these other alternatives like suicide. It's quite appalling."

God approved!

So basically this is a candidate for the New Zealand Conservative Party says that smacking your children will prevent them from doing all sorts of terrible things. And whilst I do not agree with this man in particular, I do think that the anti-smacking law, which was passed in Labour's last term in 2007 and was the subject of a controversial referendum in 2009, had the best intentions but did not actively seek to reduce the horrific amount of domestic abuse this country suffers.

So the question to you NSG is not whether or not this man is correct (I used him merely to make Americans feel better about themselves) but whether or not the anti-smacking bill is an effective piece of legislation and whether or not it should remain as law. Because the way I see it, nothing has changed before or since the bill was introduced.

I would like to see actual study to back up Saafi's claim, rather than empty rhetoric, because there is lot of evidence to the contrary (as has already been posted in this thread).

I have never really felt the need to discipline a child by smacking them, anyway. To me that seems like something a mediocre parent has to fall back on. You can instill values like respect in a child without being hitting them and psychologically damaging them.

[Aquillus]

Let me tell you a little story about myself.

I was a little shit growing up. I never did what people told me because I was too damn stubborn. My parents almost never used corporal punishment because they didn't believe in it. So you know what, they tried to reason with me and show me what I was doing was wrong, but I kept doing it. I always threw fits, back talked, and hit other kids when they upset me. They tried the corner method, taking away my toys, etc. but nothing ever really got through to me.

I remember growing up like this and then one day my father got really angry at me and grabbed my shirt, pinning me against the wall. He never did things like this. He held me there and looked me straight in the eye and told me to listen to him and not do whatever the hell it was I was doing. You know what, I damn well listened to him. It worked.

I never really went through corporal punishment but on those very rare occasions, and it is on those very rare occasions when it pierced my brain and made me listen. I don't care if your little studies show that it can cause some emotional damage when mishandled or however else. They are studies based on certain conditions with certain subjects. I'd have to really comb through them to see where the fine lines are and frankly I don't feel like doing so. I already know it works because it worked with me and I have zero ill will or feelings out of it.

I was never hit as a child, and I turned out fine. See? Anecdotal evidence means nothing, and it is hardly a reason to reject observable evidence and peer-reviewed studies because they do not conform to your pre-conceived beliefs.

[Blekksprutia]

Funny, if someone smacked me, it would probably make me more likely to want to kill myself

[Camelza]

Violence will bring more violence.
Love, reason, providing an example and patience are what constitutes a good parent, not smacking.