Protestantism might just be Christianity

[Nachtmysticum]

Heh, yet more arguing between Christians.

[Tmutarakhan]

Then how can you make the claim that the metaphorical church of Protestantism is bullshit when you yourself are affirming that the church is a metaphorical representation of Jesus?

Not a metaphorical representation of Jesus. Is Jesus. Is. Jesus.

Depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

What you expect? he's a carpenter.

Is that a hippie joke?

I dunno.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Not a metaphorical representation of Jesus. Is Jesus. Is. Jesus.

Depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

Thanks, Bill.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Heh, yet more arguing between Christians.

We take after our predecessors.

[Distruzio]

Not a metaphorical representation of Jesus. Is Jesus. Is. Jesus.

So then Jesus supported the burning of Lutherans and innocent witches? So Jesus supported holy wars against other religions and heretics? So Jesus supported Franco's massacres in Spain? So Jesus has been unable to form a consistent opinion for centuries?

Jesus has been saying the same things for 2000 years and more. That was kinda the entire premise in my OP. That Protestants say Jesus either lied or couldnt deliver the goods He promised. Where, in the OP I asserted that made them something other than Christian now I see that doesnt make them so distinct that they arent Christian. It, rather, makes them contradictory and heretical.

[Arcov]

So then Jesus supported the burning of Lutherans and innocent witches? So Jesus supported holy wars against other religions and heretics? So Jesus supported Franco's massacres in Spain? So Jesus has been unable to form a consistent opinion for centuries?

Jesus has been saying the same things for 2000 years and more. That was kinda the entire premise in my OP. That Protestants say Jesus either lied or couldnt deliver the goods He promised. Where, in the OP I asserted that made them something other than Christian now I see that doesnt make them so distinct that they arent Christian. It, rather, makes them contradictory and heretical.

You flat out said "Jesus IS the church".

If he IS the church, he is responsible for everything it has ever done or said.

[Meryuma]

Don't get me wrong, there is the odd insane pastor who might think that, but then the same goes for the odd Catholic or Orthodox priest who thinks the same thing. And the odd Rabbi and so forth. There are always outliers. But the vast majority of Christians do not think that people of other religions will go to hell for not being Christian, which was my main point.

Except Jews don't believe in hell and discourage conversion.

[Herskerstad]

Heh, yet more arguing between Christians.

Well guess what, it's been a back and forward that have a developing conversation that at least was interesting.

It's at least in parts been far better than the factwanking or opinion whoring that NS is infamous for.

[Immoren]

Of course Protestantism is not Christianity. It's obviously Hinduism.

Now AnaBaptism makes sense.

But why would anyone want to baptise ducks?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Now AnaBaptism makes sense.

But why would anyone want to baptise ducks?

To stop the alpacalypse.

[Distruzio]

Jesus has been saying the same things for 2000 years and more. That was kinda the entire premise in my OP. That Protestants say Jesus either lied or couldnt deliver the goods He promised. Where, in the OP I asserted that made them something other than Christian now I see that doesnt make them so distinct that they arent Christian. It, rather, makes them contradictory and heretical.

You flat out said "Jesus IS the church".

If he IS the church, he is responsible for everything it has ever done or said.

Uh huh. Did I contradict you somehow? Jesus being the Church doesn't remove the human element present within. In fact, it rather makes that element more prominent - just as the divine element is more prominent. Where the Church has acted hastily or in an aggressive manner, that isn't, necessarily, an example of Jesus being a dick. It is, rather, an example of the human element justifying dickery with the presence of the divine element. Jesus is, according to Christian doctrine, perfect. The Church is perfected by Him. Ergo, where the Church engages in dickish behavior, Jesus corrects that behavior (assuming the human element listens).

Note that I'm not saying that Jesus wasn't there during those periods where the Church was being dickish. I'm saying that because He was there, the Church didn't go as far as she might have and, in the course of time, was corrected by Him.

[Need a Name]

So then Jesus supported the burning of Lutherans and innocent witches? So Jesus supported holy wars against other religions and heretics? So Jesus supported Franco's massacres in Spain? So Jesus has been unable to form a consistent opinion for centuries?

Jesus has been saying the same things for 2000 years and more. That was kinda the entire premise in my OP. That Protestants say Jesus either lied or couldnt deliver the goods He promised. Where, in the OP I asserted that made them something other than Christian now I see that doesnt make them so distinct that they arent Christian. It, rather, makes them contradictory and heretical.

I feel like the Protestants you know and the Protestants I know are nothing alike.

[Distruzio]

Jesus has been saying the same things for 2000 years and more. That was kinda the entire premise in my OP. That Protestants say Jesus either lied or couldnt deliver the goods He promised. Where, in the OP I asserted that made them something other than Christian now I see that doesnt make them so distinct that they arent Christian. It, rather, makes them contradictory and heretical.

I feel like the Protestants you know and the Protestants I know are nothing alike.

Maybe. I do live in the Bible Belt of America. My family is in the midwest. So the two regions of the nation most known for fringe expressions of Christianity are my only exposure to Protestantism.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I feel like the Protestants you know and the Protestants I know are nothing alike.

Maybe. I do live in the Bible Belt of America. My family is in the midwest. So the two regions of the nation most known for fringe expressions of Christianity are my only exposure to Protestantism.

I kinda resent that

[Sklavinia]

I disagree. How do you substantiate this argument?

They recognize Jesus as the Lord. That makes them Christian.

I agree as an Orthodox Christian.

[Distruzio]

Maybe. I do live in the Bible Belt of America. My family is in the midwest. So the two regions of the nation most known for fringe expressions of Christianity are my only exposure to Protestantism.

I kinda resent that

Only kinda? How do you think it makes me feel to so love the South but be defined according to the words of a few nutbags with a sign on the corner?

[Need a Name]

I feel like the Protestants you know and the Protestants I know are nothing alike.

Maybe. I do live in the Bible Belt of America. My family is in the midwest. So the two regions of the nation most known for fringe expressions of Christianity are my only exposure to Protestantism.

That explains it, I live in the North East. Where Protestants aren't like that at all.

Not saying that people in the Bible Belt are fringe, I'm just saying that they are different from the North East.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I kinda resent that

Only kinda? How do you think it makes me feel to so love the South but be defined according to the words of a few nutbags with a sign on the corner?

Speaking of which, just walked by one with a giant everyone's going to hell poster on my college campus.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Maybe. I do live in the Bible Belt of America. My family is in the midwest. So the two regions of the nation most known for fringe expressions of Christianity are my only exposure to Protestantism.

That explains it, I live in the North East. Where Protestants aren't like that at all.

Not saying that people in the Bible Belt are fringe, I'm just saying that they are different from the North East.

It's not that people in the BB are fringe, just that fringe fuckers operate in the BB. Gives us a bad name.

[Arcov]

Uh huh. Did I contradict you somehow? Jesus being the Church doesn't remove the human element present within.

So that means a divine being, who was messenger for that which determines eternal existence, has the same flaws as mankind, and thus, is prone to the same sins of mankind? If Jesus was human, would he not have been sinful on birth, as no sacrifice had yet been made?

In fact, it rather makes that element more prominent - just as the divine element is more prominent. Where the Church has acted hastily or in an aggressive manner, that isn't, necessarily, an example of Jesus being a dick.

Even if that was not the direct actions of Jesus, it would still be his responsibility.

It is, rather, an example of the human element justifying dickery with the presence of the divine element. Jesus is, according to Christian doctrine, perfect. The Church is perfected by Him. Ergo, where the Church engages in dickish behavior, Jesus corrects that behavior (assuming the human element listens).

Then, if Jesus is part of the Church, then the human and divine elements are one. This means that his divine nature has sinful elements, while his human nature would have divine elements. This has rather frightening implications about Christianity if true.

Note that I'm not saying that Jesus wasn't there during those periods where the Church was being dickish. I'm saying that because He was there, the Church didn't go as far as she might have and, in the course of time, was corrected by Him.

But Jesus, after departing Earth, became fully divine. If he didn't, then he would be human, and thus inherently flawed. If fully divine, he would have stopped the Church, unless you are insinuating that he takes centuries to act.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

Because, you know, all the records we actually have of ancient Christian communities show that those communities were intensely concerned with establishing correct theology - indeed, they seem to have spent a lot of their energy debating minute theological points with each other - and had a clearly defined organizational structure involving bishops, priests, and deacons.

Christianity was never something other than an organized religion. It certainly couldn't have survived persecution if it wasn't organized. You know what kinds of groups are the most effective at surviving repression? Those with strict internal discipline. Early Christianity came with oaths of secrecy, some of which survive to this day.[/quote]

You might have a point about ancient Christians trying to establish an organization, but that doesn't mean it had to get all too sophisticated bureaucratic like they did. You can still have organization and simplicity. But I'm not gonna be apologetic for Christianity as their goals to supposedly become a righteous Christian is unrealistic and unattainable.

[Tmutarakhan]

Where the Church has acted hastily or in an aggressive manner, that isn't, necessarily, an example of Jesus being a dick.

Then Jesus Isn't the Church. Isn't. Is Not.
You see, if "A=B" then you can replace any instance of "A" in a sentence with "B". If you were actually correct to say "Jesus is the Church" that means (yes, necessarily) that where "the Church" has acted hastily or aggressively, "Jesus" has acted hastily or aggressively.

[Hurdegaryp]

Jesus has been saying the same things for 2000 years and more. That was kinda the entire premise in my OP. That Protestants say Jesus either lied or couldnt deliver the goods He promised. Where, in the OP I asserted that made them something other than Christian now I see that doesnt make them so distinct that they arent Christian. It, rather, makes them contradictory and heretical.

You flat out said "Jesus IS the church".

If he IS the church, he is responsible for everything it has ever done or said.

The early Protestants were against the corrupt Vatican, not Jesus. Distruzio may long for the return of the Inquisition, but he shall not have his way. Also I think it is quite funny how the title of this thread was changed in a subtle way.

Also: what exactly is wrong with a proper heresy?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Oddly enough, the Office of the Pope answers the issue about church being Jesus.