Protestantism might just be Christianity

[Constantinopolis]

What is or isn't Christianity depends entirely on how you define "Christianity", and there is no single correct definition.

Protestantism contains a series of heresies, sure, but in most cases heretical groups are considered to be within the thing we call "Christianity", not outside it.

[Prezelly]

I see all religions as basically the same.
Just the hate between them separates them

[Mostrov]

It was the birthplace of Protestantism, besides the most of the more developed areas of Germany are predominantly Protestant.

Like the Rhineland against say Eastern Germany? Or is France not developed? What about Belgium? Just because you are reiterating the myths Protestant Work Ethic doesn't make it especially true.

Of course that explains why many sub-saharan African countries are more developed respectively due to their adoption of Protestantism.

I don't understand why you include Anglicans with the legitimate Churches. They are Protestants in my books, just as heretical as the rest.

Yeah, that is an odd choice.

Why are they Protestant is what I would ask? This really simplifies Anglican views.


Most of this thread seems to be filled with people who've simply been raised in a household of one religion and are simply criticising each other based upon the various exaggerations and myths they have about each other.

[Tekania]

With the exception of Anglo-Catholicism (which started as a political dispute between England and Rome), Protestantism was a rebellion against Christian theology and biblical history 1500 years old at the time. The Protestant rejects Peter and the other Apostles but accepts Christ. How can one be a Christian by doing this? A Protestant, therefore, is no mere schismatic - they are a heretic. They are as much a heretic against Christianity as the Christian is a heretic against Judaism.

That's more than a bit of an oversimplification of the Protestant Reformation. There was as much secular politics involved in the wars and upheavals associated with the Reformation as there was in the English Reformation, and yet you bend over backwards to try and wave away the English Reformation as being superficial and 'political'. That suggests that you're more interested in finding a reason to accept the Anglicans (whose aesthetics you agree with) as Christians and find the rest of Protestants (whose aesthetics you don't like) not Christians than you are in actually having a historically-informed viewpoint.

This is the most accurate element.... the Reformation was borne out the corrupt morass (at the time) of the Western Church, and Western Government (in general) at the time. It was a mess. I mean, seriously.... and at the time the idea of Papal authority was still reeling from the happenings of 1378.

[The Orson Empire]

Ahh, yet another person trying to say their particular doctrine is right and everyone else is wrong. How disappointing.

Honestly, I do not give a rat's ass if you think I am a Christian or not. Your opinion is not going to keep me from adhering to my particular doctrine.

[Shaggai]

Ahh, yet another person trying to say their particular doctrine is right and everyone else is wrong. How disappointing.

Honestly, I do not give a rat's ass if you think I am a Christian or not. Your opinion is not going to keep me from adhering to my particular doctrine.

So let me be very clear: this is not a topic attacking the character or individual traits of any particular Protestant or Protestant denomination. Such things do not, necessarily, a Christian make or unmake. You are not Christian because you're a "good" person. You are not Christian because you "believe" that Christ exists/existed. Therefore, merely being a "good" Lutheran or a "good" Presbyterian is not a justifiable reason to proclaim oneself a Christian. No one would say that a "good" atheist counts as a Christian, would they? Why not? Because the atheist, in being labelled atheist, is merely expressing their faith/lack of faith. To say that the atheists of the world "are not Christian" is no more an insult than saying they "are not firetrucks." They simply aren't. And saying this, in no way, is a reflection of their individual character or the value of their beliefs or lack of beliefs. So, too, is the statement that Protestants are not Christian.

I'm not saying that Protestants are going to hell. I'm saying that Protestants aren't firetrucks. I'm saying that firetrucks aren't Christian.

So, if I am saying that the Protestant is not Christian, then how do I treat Protestants?

With respect.

[Conkerials]

I'm not saying that Protestants are going to hell.

If Protestants have a chance of going to Heaven, they must be Christians. Since your clearly deny that Protestants are Christians, you are indeed implying Protestants are going to hell. No need to be soft about it, as you continuously did throughout the entire OP. With your "I'm not saying 'this' or 'that'. But I am saying (insert analogy that means what you just said you didn't mean)"

[Shaggai]

I'm not saying that Protestants are going to hell.

If Protestants have a chance of going to Heaven, they must be Christians. Since your clearly deny that Protestants are Christians, you are indeed implying Protestants are going to hell. No need to be soft about it, as you continuously did throughout the entire OP. With your "I'm not saying 'this' or 'that'. But I am saying (insert analogy that means what you just said you didn't mean)"

Actually, Distruzio has an interesting view of hell. I'm probably not the right person to explain it, but IIRC the gist is that it's a refusal to restore your natural relationship with God (which, since you're dead and no longer connected to the physical world, results in total isolation) and as such is temporary and voluntary. I'm probably getting a lot of this wrong, though, so you should really ask him.

[Benuty]

I'm not saying that Protestants are going to hell.

If Protestants have a chance of going to Heaven, they must be Christians. Since your clearly deny that Protestants are Christians, you are indeed implying Protestants are going to hell. No need to be soft about it, as you continuously did throughout the entire OP. With your "I'm not saying 'this' or 'that'. But I am saying (insert analogy that means what you just said you didn't mean)"

More than just Christians go to Heaven .

[Conkerials]

If Protestants have a chance of going to Heaven, they must be Christians. Since your clearly deny that Protestants are Christians, you are indeed implying Protestants are going to hell. No need to be soft about it, as you continuously did throughout the entire OP. With your "I'm not saying 'this' or 'that'. But I am saying (insert analogy that means what you just said you didn't mean)"

More than just Christians go to Heaven .

Not according to Christians? I was never a very good Christian. So, I don't know, man.

[Constantinopolis]

I'm not saying that Protestants are going to hell.

If Protestants have a chance of going to Heaven, they must be Christians. Since your clearly deny that Protestants are Christians, you are indeed implying Protestants are going to hell. No need to be soft about it, as you continuously did throughout the entire OP. With your "I'm not saying 'this' or 'that'. But I am saying (insert analogy that means what you just said you didn't mean)"

You are mistaken. He believes (as do I, and as do many Christians) that non-Christians have a chance of going to Heaven.

[Herskerstad]

I see all religions as basically the same.
Just the hate between them separates them

I see all political ideologies as basically just the same.

It's just the funky logos that separates them.

[Conkerials]

If Protestants have a chance of going to Heaven, they must be Christians. Since your clearly deny that Protestants are Christians, you are indeed implying Protestants are going to hell. No need to be soft about it, as you continuously did throughout the entire OP. With your "I'm not saying 'this' or 'that'. But I am saying (insert analogy that means what you just said you didn't mean)"

You are mistaken. He believes (as do I, and as do many Christians) that non-Christians have a chance of going to Heaven.

Apologies then. I never made a very good Christian.

[Kiruri]

Ahh, yet another person trying to say their particular doctrine is right and everyone else is wrong. How disappointing.

Honestly, I do not give a rat's ass if you think I am a Christian or not. Your opinion is not going to keep me from adhering to my particular doctrine.

So let me be very clear: this is not a topic attacking the character or individual traits of any particular Protestant or Protestant denomination. Such things do not, necessarily, a Christian make or unmake. You are not Christian because you're a "good" person. You are not Christian because you "believe" that Christ exists/existed. Therefore, merely being a "good" Lutheran or a "good" Presbyterian is not a justifiable reason to proclaim oneself a Christian. No one would say that a "good" atheist counts as a Christian, would they? Why not? Because the atheist, in being labelled atheist, is merely expressing their faith/lack of faith. To say that the atheists of the world "are not Christian" is no more an insult than saying they "are not firetrucks." They simply aren't. And saying this, in no way, is a reflection of their individual character or the value of their beliefs or lack of beliefs. So, too, is the statement that Protestants are not Christian.

I'm not saying that Protestants are going to hell. I'm saying that Protestants aren't firetrucks. I'm saying that firetrucks aren't Christian.

So, if I am saying that the Protestant is not Christian, then how do I treat Protestants?

With respect.

I still find this to be kind of offensive (if I were a protestant). I mean, if I consider myself "christian" and I'm then told "you aren't Christian (and that's a fact) because so and so", I wouldn't take that lightly. I'd argue that I am Christian. But then there's the potential for the Protestant to say, "In fact, I'm Christian because X and since you're not X then you're not Christian (and that's a fact)" which is basically stating "I'm right and what I practice is right and you're wrong and what you're practicing is wrong".

[Constantinopolis]

More than just Christians go to Heaven .

Not according to Christians? I was never a very good Christian. So, I don't know, man.

The belief that only Christians can go to Heaven is - ironically enough - a mostly Protestant view.

[Conkerials]

Not according to Christians? I was never a very good Christian. So, I don't know, man.

The belief that only Christians can go to Heaven is - ironically enough - a mostly Protestant view.

Then I suppose that's why I had that idea. I grew up a Protestant.

[Kiruri]

If Protestants have a chance of going to Heaven, they must be Christians. Since your clearly deny that Protestants are Christians, you are indeed implying Protestants are going to hell. No need to be soft about it, as you continuously did throughout the entire OP. With your "I'm not saying 'this' or 'that'. But I am saying (insert analogy that means what you just said you didn't mean)"

You are mistaken. He believes (as do I, and as do many Christians) that non-Christians have a chance of going to Heaven.

By converting to Christianity?

[Benuty]

More than just Christians go to Heaven .

Not according to Christians? I was never a very good Christian. So, I don't know, man.

Actually.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm

[New Connorstantinople]

>anarcho-monarchist

[The New Sea Territory]

Liberation theology: It's a thing.

But it goes against Catholic teaching. You can't be a Communist and a Catholic.

Catholic condemnation of communism was a purely political thing. Still, if you want to keep up the facade that the Vatican isn't corrupt, it really only condemns the Cold War-Era Communists, and Marx, not really anything else, since the Church was pretty ignorant on the subject in general. Not unlike most conservative Christians today.

[Benuty]

>anarcho-monarchist

Point?

[The New Sea Territory]

>anarcho-monarchist

It's a thing.

[Conkerials]

Not according to Christians? I was never a very good Christian. So, I don't know, man.

Actually.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm

Interesting read.

[Jumalariik]

I don't know how to feel, should I point out that the Orthodox church is a horrible institution? Should I point out that it is idolatrous? Should I point out that it stands up for fascism or, should I just get angry and spill my hypothetical coffee?

[Fireye]

And Catholics worship and idolize saints- none of whom are actually God, however much they are blessed by Him.
EVERY CHRISTIAN IS NOT CHRISTIAN

Saints aren't the targets of worship.

They intercede on the behalf of Catholics in certain purviews.

A prayer to a saint (for example, to St Anthony while trying to locate a misplaced item), is a prayer TO God, THROUGH the saint.