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Neo-Conservatism: Bomb this thread, we have Oil

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What is your stance on Neo-Conservatism?

As a NeoCon, I believe it's good.
32
12%
I'm not a NeoCon, but I agree with many of their points.
36
13%
I'm not a NeoCon, and they are right once in a blue moon.
50
18%
I'm not a NeoCon, and I believe they are wrong.
98
36%
Why does America even need a military? Costa Rica seems to be doing fine.
12
4%
It's a Zionist-Halliburton-Bush-Saudi-Enron-Blair conspiracy for oil.
43
16%
 
Total votes : 271

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Murkwood
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Neo-Conservatism: Bomb this thread, we have Oil

Postby Murkwood » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:42 am

Edit: I decided to change the title to something funnier.

After participating in a pretty long threadjack on the Neo-Conservatism, I decided to create a post about it. When people bring up Neo-Conservatism/Interventionism, everyone has their two cents. Some believe that's it's the moral stance to take, to protect those who can't protect themselves and strengthen our standing in the world. Others disagreeing, thinking of NeoCons as trigger happy cowboys. What do you, denizens of NSG, think of Neo-Conservtism?

As a staunch NeoCon myself, I fully support it. Some people, usually Libertarians, say that you can't be pro-market and a NeoCon. I disagree. It's possible to be pro-smaller government and a NeoCon. Just because you believe the defense budget shouldn't be cut doesn't make you anti-small government. Rather, it mean that you value a strong country.
Last edited by Murkwood on Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

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The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate
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Postby The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:48 am

Remember kids, small government is good (except when it's forcing its power on people not even in the country—then big government is great).
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Canaore
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Postby Canaore » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:49 am

When are you going to stop trying to be funny and write normal titles?
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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:49 am

The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:Remember kids, small government is good (except when it's forcing its power on people not even in the country—then big government is great).

It's possible to have a big defense and a small domestic government.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:49 am

Canaore wrote:When are you going to stop trying to be funny and write normal titles?



Eh, humor is needed in NSG after a while.
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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:50 am

Canaore wrote:When are you going to stop trying to be funny and write normal titles?

Every thread I make has to have two things:
1. Funny title
2. Poll with at least one humorous option.

It's my NSG tradition, like how Benuty spoilers everything.
Last edited by Murkwood on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate
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Postby The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:51 am

Murkwood wrote:
The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:Remember kids, small government is good (except when it's forcing its power on people not even in the country—then big government is great).

It's possible to have a big defense and a small domestic government.

Obviously, it's possible, as we can clearly see with the US. I, however, find it not only immoral, but also a tremendous waste of resources.
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Kelinfort
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Postby Kelinfort » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:52 am

I'm not completely against it, in fact, I am sometimes in favour of intervention, but intervening just because of a dictatorial government or oil reserves is not good enough of a reason to intervene.

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:52 am

The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:
Murkwood wrote:It's possible to have a big defense and a small domestic government.

Obviously, it's possible, as we can clearly see with the US. I, however, find it not only immoral, but also a tremendous waste of resources.

Immoral?
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:52 am

I'm not an enormous fan. Their foreign policy in practice is grossly hypocritical - supporting the destruction of dictatorships they don't like while surreptitiously propping up the ones they do, as long as they keep labour costs low and resources ready to exploit. Not to mention neocons' tendencies towards formenting class warfare and using the state as a blunt instrument against people and ideologies they don't like.
Last edited by Avenio on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Estado Nacional
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Postby Estado Nacional » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:54 am

Interventionism is [almost] never practiced for humanitarian or moral reasons, but because countries need to watch out for their own interests. Not that I find anything wrong with that. Do you even realpolitik?
Last edited by Estado Nacional on Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate
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Postby The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:55 am

Murkwood wrote:
The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:Obviously, it's possible, as we can clearly see with the US. I, however, find it not only immoral, but also a tremendous waste of resources.

Immoral?

Yes, immoral.

Are you going to argue that we actually helped the majority of these people?
Last edited by The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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NSG is your blog; don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:Way to go for SUPPRESSING my opinion.
Economic Left/Right: -7.88
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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:57 am

The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:
Murkwood wrote:Immoral?

Yes, immoral.

Are you going to argue that we actually helped the majority of these people?

That wasn't immoral. We toppled one of the worst dictators in modern history.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:59 am

Murkwood wrote:
The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:Remember kids, small government is good (except when it's forcing its power on people not even in the country—then big government is great).

It's possible to have a big defense and a small domestic government.

Only if you want a military dictatorship.
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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:00 am

Norstal wrote:
Murkwood wrote:It's possible to have a big defense and a small domestic government.

Only if you want a military dictatorship.

Prone to military juntas as well.
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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:03 am

It's similar to what would be neoimperialism, really. The furtherment of "democracy" and "freedom" abroad through war and military intervention is hypocritical, flawed, and unethical.
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The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate
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Postby The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:04 am

Murkwood wrote:
The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:Yes, immoral.

Are you going to argue that we actually helped the majority of these people?

That wasn't immoral. We toppled one of the worst dictators in modern history.

He wasn't exactly a great guy, but he did a hell of a lot better job at keeping the country stable than anyone after him. It's very hard to make the case that Iraq is now somehow better than it was before we invaded.

And everyone knows it was just about the oil and benefit as a country. Otherwise, we would have already invaded the basically resource-less North Korea...especially since they actually have weapons of mass destruction.
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NSG is your blog; don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:Way to go for SUPPRESSING my opinion.
Economic Left/Right: -7.88
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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:05 am

The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:
Murkwood wrote:That wasn't immoral. We toppled one of the worst dictators in modern history.

He wasn't exactly a great guy, but he did a hell of a lot better job at keeping the country stable than anyone after him. It's very hard to make the case that Iraq is now somehow better than it was before we invaded.

And everyone knows it was just about the oil and benefit as a country. Otherwise, we would have already invaded the basically resource-less North Korea...especially since they actually have weapons of mass destruction.

North Korea is tricky, mainly because of China's backing.

Now, we should've invaded Sudan, but we haven't for some reason.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:06 am

Arkolon wrote:It's similar to what would be neoimperialism, really. The furtherment of "democracy" and "freedom" abroad through war and military intervention is hypocritical, flawed, and unethical.

Hypocritical?
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:09 am

Kelinfort wrote:I'm not completely against it, in fact, I am sometimes in favour of intervention, but intervening just because of a dictatorial government or oil reserves is not good enough of a reason to intervene.

Most of our defense budget is used for military research. There's a reason why the U.S is at the forefront of technology overall. Sure, we don't have television in our phones like the Japanese does, but we can shoot down missiles with lasers.

However, if our budget is in excess, there isn't a point in it. We have too much surplus for the military. Either we cut it down or we restructure its budgeting.
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The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate
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Postby The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:11 am

Murkwood wrote:
The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:He wasn't exactly a great guy, but he did a hell of a lot better job at keeping the country stable than anyone after him. It's very hard to make the case that Iraq is now somehow better than it was before we invaded.

And everyone knows it was just about the oil and benefit as a country. Otherwise, we would have already invaded the basically resource-less North Korea...especially since they actually have weapons of mass destruction.

North Korea is tricky, mainly because of China's backing.

Now, we should've invaded Sudan, but we haven't for some reason.

China doesn't really even back North Korea anymore; in recent years, they've become very distant, and I highly doubt China would step in if the US were to invade. But we all know that's not gonna happen.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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NSG is your blog; don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:Way to go for SUPPRESSING my opinion.
Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.08

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:11 am

The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:
Murkwood wrote:North Korea is tricky, mainly because of China's backing.

Now, we should've invaded Sudan, but we haven't for some reason.

China doesn't really even back North Korea anymore; in recent years, they've become very distant, and I highly doubt China would step in if the US were to invade. But we all know that's not gonna happen.

You can't invade a country hoping that another might not help them.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:12 am

Murkwood wrote:
Arkolon wrote:It's similar to what would be neoimperialism, really. The furtherment of "democracy" and "freedom" abroad through war and military intervention is hypocritical, flawed, and unethical.

Hypocritical?

Bombing for peace is pretty hypocritical, yes.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:16 am

Arkolon wrote:
Murkwood wrote:Hypocritical?

Bombing for peace is pretty hypocritical, yes.

But it's not for peace.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate
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Postby The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:19 am

Murkwood wrote:
The Lithuanian-Surinamese Caliphate wrote:China doesn't really even back North Korea anymore; in recent years, they've become very distant, and I highly doubt China would step in if the US were to invade. But we all know that's not gonna happen.

You can't invade a country hoping that another might not help them.

If a country was actually going around invading other countries for purely ethical reasons, then yes, they could, and would, take that infinitesimally small risk.
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NSG is your blog; don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:Way to go for SUPPRESSING my opinion.
Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.08

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