Public Opinion on Transgender Persons

[Riiser-Larsen]

You described me as being alarmist about a non-issue. What I said was that I never had an issue with transgender people, I just didn't like the attention-seeking behavior some exhibited. You're the one who blew that up into an argument about how I must have some kind of disrespect for transgender people or else I would put up with their demands.

Umm... you're definitely confusing me for someone else.

Yeah, I might be thinking of Othelos.

[Galloism]

I think you're mistaking lack of gender with lack of hormone production, which is in no way related with the other.

Well I asked if this was something where they simply produced no hormones, and no one said anything until now, so I just kinda assumed that's what it was. If you could enlighten me as to how exactly someone could simply have no gender, that would be helpful.

I never said that. What I am confused about is how a human could just have no gender. That doesn't even make an evolutionary sense, so I find it hard to believe that's even a common thing.

Gender comes with all sorts of bullshit societal baggage - girls have dolls, boys have gi Joe's. Women stay in the kitchen, and men are violent psychopaths.

It's no wonder some have said that no gender applies to them.

[Othelos]

Indeed. I noticed. Hence the absence of any derogatory themes in my responses to you.



Indeed. The vocal minority that demand special treatment are an incredibly vocal minority and merit little consideration. The majority aren't acting like you've described.



Eh? At what point in our exchange have I done this? Are you confusing me for another poster?

You described me as being alarmist about a non-issue. What I said was that I never had an issue with transgender people, I just didn't like the attention-seeking behavior some exhibited. You're the one who blew that up into an argument about how I must have some kind of disrespect for transgender people or else I would put up with their demands.

There are attention-seeking individuals everywhere, among every group.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I think you're mistaking lack of gender with lack of hormone production, which is in no way related with the other.

Well I asked if this was something where they simply produced no hormones, and no one said anything until now, so I just kinda assumed that's what it was. If you could enlighten me as to how exactly someone could simply have no gender, that would be helpful.

Gender is a societal construct. Sex is biological. Some people refuse to conform to the societal standards of gender to the point that they do not identify by any gender.

[Distruzio]

Umm... you're definitely confusing me for someone else.

Yeah, I might be thinking of Othelos.

Othelos doesn't have nearly as nice an ass as I have. So I don't see any resemblance .

[Threlizdun]

Why do you assume there is a significant number of transgendered individuals?

Not transgendered, non-gendered.

Which is a subset of transgendered, and of whom there are exceptionally few of so it would make little sense to presume it was an evolutionary adaption rather that just a quirk that arose in some people.

[Riiser-Larsen]

I'm not saying just that I don't understand it, I'm saying that it provides no evolutionary advantage whatsoever. Not even like Cystic Fibrosis, which is theorized to give some form of defense against TB. This literally has no reason to exist whatsoever, so I find it hard to believe that it actually does in any significant number.

No, it doesn't provide any evolutionary advantage, which is why there are so few individuals who do not identify with a gender. Plenty of things arise as accidents of evolution rather serving as advantageous characteristics.

Good, because I have run into a disproportionately large number of people who call themselves "Xir" or shit like that. Maybe I just have the shitty luck to go top websites at the same time as tumblr users.

[Tekania]

Because people don't get to decide is not a reason to be disrespectful. Once again, I asked you WHY not just treat people as they express to be treated.... I didn't ask how you liked to express your person as an asshole.

Asking people to work for the things they want is not being an asshole, it's being harsh but reasonable. Being an asshole is jumping down the throat of every single person who doesn't treat you exactly the way you want people to treat you. If we just gave everyone exactly what they wanted, nobody would work for things anymore, and achievements would lose meaning. Being a scientist is a huge part of who I am as a person, but if I fuck up in college and don't get my PhD, I'm not going to make a stink about it and demand that people refer to me as Dr.xyz, or Professor xyz, I'm going to acknowledge that I need to work to get my PhD and earn those things.

If someone just corrected you as to your pronoun usage, they did work at it. Now you can use common courtesy to address them in such a manner. Once again, not a difficult concept.

[Othelos]

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

I'm not saying just that I don't understand it, I'm saying that it provides no evolutionary advantage whatsoever. Not even like Cystic Fibrosis, which is theorized to give some form of defense against TB. This literally has no reason to exist whatsoever, so I find it hard to believe that it actually does in any significant number.

That's because gender roles are created by society. They're irrelevant to evolution.

[Othelos]

I don't see how someone's gender identity is anyone else's business.

It's not, except when referring to someone as the proper pronoun.

[Riiser-Larsen]

Asking people to work for the things they want is not being an asshole, it's being harsh but reasonable. Being an asshole is jumping down the throat of every single person who doesn't treat you exactly the way you want people to treat you. If we just gave everyone exactly what they wanted, nobody would work for things anymore, and achievements would lose meaning. Being a scientist is a huge part of who I am as a person, but if I fuck up in college and don't get my PhD, I'm not going to make a stink about it and demand that people refer to me as Dr.xyz, or Professor xyz, I'm going to acknowledge that I need to work to get my PhD and earn those things.

If someone just corrected you as to your pronoun usage, they did work at it. Now you can use common courtesy to address them in such a manner. Once again, not a difficult concept.

That's not working at it, that's telling other people to work at it. "Working at it" would be, if you identified as a woman, taking estrogen supplements, dressing like a woman, sharing the same interests as women, and doing other things to ensure that people recognize you as a woman. As it stands, just telling someone else they're doing it wrong is doing nothing to solve a problem, it's just contributing to people like me who are frustrated with others expecting special treatment for things they believe.

[Threlizdun]

No, it doesn't provide any evolutionary advantage, which is why there are so few individuals who do not identify with a gender. Plenty of things arise as accidents of evolution rather serving as advantageous characteristics.

Good, because I have run into a disproportionately large number of people who call themselves "Xir" or shit like that. Maybe I just have the shitty luck to go top websites at the same time as tumblr users.

Agender, androgynous, and other nonbinary individuals are more likely to frequent sites such as this one than they are many others. Typically, I just find referring to everyone using the singular "they" is the easiest way to carry out conversations without having to know what another's preferred pronoun is.

[Othelos]

Yeah, I might be thinking of Othelos.

Othelos doesn't have nearly as nice an ass as I have. So I don't see any resemblance .

You wish you could see my ass

[Farnhamia]

It's more of an issue of comfort and not an issue of thinking they're special. Being misgendered can be a very dysphoric experience for some trans people (especially when it's deliberate).

I'll take consideration for their comfort when someone can find me a good reason that they believe they are the wrong gender, like a genetic anomaly or a chemical imbalance. As it stands, if it's only someone's opinion or belief that they're the wrong gender, I'm not doing anything special for them. Doing so would minimize the struggle of people who actually do have genetic anomalies or chemical imbalances that cause them to be different than the societal norms, like people who are homosexual or asexual.

What you do out in the Cold Cruel is up to you, but you should know that here, if you've been asked to refer to someone in a specific manner and insist on not honoring that request, your actions constitute bad faith posting and are actionable.

[Othelos]

No, it doesn't provide any evolutionary advantage, which is why there are so few individuals who do not identify with a gender. Plenty of things arise as accidents of evolution rather serving as advantageous characteristics.

Good, because I have run into a disproportionately large number of people who call themselves "Xir" or shit like that. Maybe I just have the shitty luck to go top websites at the same time as tumblr users.

I still don't understand why you have such a huge personal issue with it. It shouldn't matter to you...at all.

[Farnhamia]

Othelos doesn't have nearly as nice an ass as I have. So I don't see any resemblance .

You wish you could see my ass

I'm sure we all do but it's something over which we suffer in silence.

[Riiser-Larsen]

I'm not saying just that I don't understand it, I'm saying that it provides no evolutionary advantage whatsoever. Not even like Cystic Fibrosis, which is theorized to give some form of defense against TB. This literally has no reason to exist whatsoever, so I find it hard to believe that it actually does in any significant number.

That's because gender roles are created by society. They're irrelevant to evolution.

Then why does that require anyone to demand special pronouns at all?! Gender-based pronouns exist to differentiate between sex, not gender roles or anything like that! If anyone was even thinking through this whole bloody thing I wouldn't even have a problem with some transgendered people in the first place!

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Othelos doesn't have nearly as nice an ass as I have. So I don't see any resemblance .

You wish you could see my ass

Don't you wish your ass was as big as mine!

No, it doesn't accommodate to the song I was thinking of. Drat.

[Distruzio]

If someone just corrected you as to your pronoun usage, they did work at it. Now you can use common courtesy to address them in such a manner. Once again, not a difficult concept.

That's not working at it, that's telling other people to work at it. "Working at it" would be, if you identified as a woman, taking estrogen supplements, dressing like a woman, sharing the same interests as women, and doing other things to ensure that people recognize you as a woman. As it stands, just telling someone else they're doing it wrong is doing nothing to solve a problem, it's just contributing to people like me who are frustrated with others expecting special treatment for things they believe.

Indeed. And that's the precise reason (the labor you describe) I refer to all transgenders as the gender they identify with. As for the intersexed individuals... I simply ignore any issue that might arise by erring on the side of compassion. They could say they're a firetruck and I'd give in. Less of a hassle for me to relent than it is for me to insist otherwise. I've got other things to worry about.

[Othelos]

That's because gender roles are created by society. They're irrelevant to evolution.

Then why does that require anyone to demand special pronouns at all?! Gender-based pronouns exist to differentiate between sex, not gender roles or anything like that! If anyone was even thinking through this whole bloody thing I wouldn't even have a problem with some transgendered people in the first place!

No, they exist to differentiate between genders. Most people are cisgender, so it just overlaps a lot.

Besides, there isn't a proper pronoun for intersex people.

[Distruzio]

Othelos doesn't have nearly as nice an ass as I have. So I don't see any resemblance .

You wish you could see my ass

How else was I going to call attention to that which I've been deprived?

[Riiser-Larsen]

Good, because I have run into a disproportionately large number of people who call themselves "Xir" or shit like that. Maybe I just have the shitty luck to go top websites at the same time as tumblr users.

I still don't understand why you have such a huge personal issue with it. It shouldn't matter to you...at all.

I'll tell you why I have an issue with it: I don't like it when people expect me to change how I act, learn an entirely new set of nonsensical pronouns that they made up, and give them an allowance to chastise me when I inevitably don't, simply because those people think that they're special. Believe it or not, I don't like making allowances for people simply because they believe they deserve them, I expect a legitimate reason and, as it stands, all I've gotten are "You shouldn't care about this so much" or variations of "Because it will make them feel good".

[Othelos]

You wish you could see my ass

Don't you wish your ass was as big as mine!

No, it doesn't accommodate to the song I was thinking of. Drat.

Are you talking about 'Don't cha'?

[Riiser-Larsen]

Then why does that require anyone to demand special pronouns at all?! Gender-based pronouns exist to differentiate between sex, not gender roles or anything like that! If anyone was even thinking through this whole bloody thing I wouldn't even have a problem with some transgendered people in the first place!

No, they exist to differentiate between genders. Most people are cisgender, so it just overlaps a lot.

Besides, there isn't a proper pronoun for intersex people.

No, they have never referred to genders. You only believe they do because someone's told you that they do.

[Cyrisnia]

Don't you wish your ass was as big as mine!

No, it doesn't accommodate to the song I was thinking of. Drat.

Are you talking about 'Don't cha'?

My ass is the best.