Public Opinion on Transgender Persons

[Distruzio]

It's never that simple for them, boss. There is quite a lot of work to go into preparing for that surgery. You can't just up and get it one day like you can a... wait a minute, no surgery is like that, actually.

I get that, and if I want to be a lawyer I have to spend several years learning "legalese" and then take an exam to finally prove I am qualified to be a lawyer. Before that, I can't just claim that I'm a lawyer despite the fact that I don't have anything to back that up. I don't expect people to just up and get a surgery, I expect them to be reasonable and understanding of the fact that society bases most impressions on visual input. Instead of going "Even though I'm sexually a man, I expect you to refer to me as a she" they should say "I'm transgender and am going to get a surgery to change my sex. Afterwards, when I'm sexually female, I would like you to refer to me as a she".

Truth be told, most of the TG's I've met adhere to a similar mindset. I've only met ONE transgender who took offense at the lack of appropriate gender identification on the part of another person. Just one. I've dated several transwomen. I've been steeped in this community for quite a long time and, being heterosexual, I can't say that I've seen what you're alarmed about. *shrug* Maybe I'm too close to it? Maybe I don't watch the news enough to notice what you've noticed. But it seems to me that you're being alarmist about as near a non-issue as there can be.

Truth is that most trans just want to be treated as an individual. They'll put up with so much just for that small kindness.

[Riiser-Larsen]

That... seems kinda weird. I mean, I can get behind the whole transsexual thing, and I'm fine with gay people, and I even have a decent tolerance for furries, but why would anyone use their political ideology as a reason to change what they are personally?

Maybe because they do not identify as what they are biologically... to begin with.

How exactly? I mean, I can understand asexuality, their body just doesn't have a sex drive, but how in hell could your body simply produce NO hormones?

[Othelos]

It's never that simple for them, boss. There is quite a lot of work to go into preparing for that surgery. You can't just up and get it one day like you can a... wait a minute, no surgery is like that, actually.

I get that, and if I want to be a lawyer I have to spend several years learning "legalese" and then take an exam to finally prove I am qualified to be a lawyer. Before that, I can't just claim that I'm a lawyer despite the fact that I don't have anything to back that up. I don't expect people to just up and get a surgery, I expect them to be reasonable and understanding of the fact that society bases most impressions on visual input. Instead of going "Even though I'm sexually a man, I expect you to refer to me as a she" they should say "I'm transgender and am going to get a surgery to change my sex. Afterwards, when I'm sexually female, I would like you to refer to me as a she".

Pronouns depend on the person's gender, not sex. In many countries, you can change your legal gender without changing your sex.

[Othelos]

Maybe because they do not identify as what they are biologically... to begin with.

How exactly? I mean, I can understand asexuality, their body just doesn't have a sex drive, but how in hell could your body simply produce NO hormones?

Some have a low sex drive, but some just aren't attracted to anyone. It's just the lack of a sexual orientation.

[Riiser-Larsen]

I get that, and if I want to be a lawyer I have to spend several years learning "legalese" and then take an exam to finally prove I am qualified to be a lawyer. Before that, I can't just claim that I'm a lawyer despite the fact that I don't have anything to back that up. I don't expect people to just up and get a surgery, I expect them to be reasonable and understanding of the fact that society bases most impressions on visual input. Instead of going "Even though I'm sexually a man, I expect you to refer to me as a she" they should say "I'm transgender and am going to get a surgery to change my sex. Afterwards, when I'm sexually female, I would like you to refer to me as a she".

Truth be told, most of the TG's I've met adhere to a similar mindset. I've only met ONE transgender who took offense at the lack of appropriate gender identification on the part of another person. Just one. I've dated several transwomen. I've been steeped in this community for quite a long time and, being heterosexual, I can't say that I've seen what you're alarmed about. *shrug* Maybe I'm too close to it? Maybe I don't watch the news enough to notice what you've noticed. But it seems to me that you're being alarmist about as near a non-issue as there can be.

Truth is that most trans just want to be treated as an individual. They'll put up with so much just for that small kindness.

I'm not really being alarmist, what I specifically said was that I only have an issue with Transgender people who expect to be treated in special ways. From what you've described, that's the vast minority, so it's not really an issue. You're really the only one treating this like I hate all transgender people or something.

[Galloism]

Maybe because they do not identify as what they are biologically... to begin with.

How exactly? I mean, I can understand asexuality, their body just doesn't have a sex drive, but how in hell could your body simply produce NO hormones?

Are you of the opinion that your personal identity is 100% determined by hormone levels?

No cognitive function?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Maybe because they do not identify as what they are biologically... to begin with.

How exactly? I mean, I can understand asexuality, their body just doesn't have a sex drive, but how in hell could your body simply produce NO hormones?

Their physiology is that way? Rather like people who do not produce lithium and have to take it.

This is however more than just the production or absence of hormones. There's a psychological component here too.

[Riiser-Larsen]

How exactly? I mean, I can understand asexuality, their body just doesn't have a sex drive, but how in hell could your body simply produce NO hormones?

Are you of the opinion that your personal identity is 100% determined by hormone levels?

No cognitive function?

I never said that. What I am confused about is how a human could just have no gender. That doesn't even make an evolutionary sense, so I find it hard to believe that's even a common thing.

[Distruzio]

Truth be told, most of the TG's I've met adhere to a similar mindset. I've only met ONE transgender who took offense at the lack of appropriate gender identification on the part of another person. Just one. I've dated several transwomen. I've been steeped in this community for quite a long time and, being heterosexual, I can't say that I've seen what you're alarmed about. *shrug* Maybe I'm too close to it? Maybe I don't watch the news enough to notice what you've noticed. But it seems to me that you're being alarmist about as near a non-issue as there can be.

Truth is that most trans just want to be treated as an individual. They'll put up with so much just for that small kindness.

I'm not really being alarmist, what I specifically said was that I only have an issue with Transgender people who expect to be treated in special ways.

Indeed. I noticed. Hence the absence of any derogatory themes in my responses to you.

From what you've described, that's the vast minority, so it's not really an issue.

Indeed. The vocal minority that demand special treatment are an incredibly vocal minority and merit little consideration. The majority aren't acting like you've described.

You're really the only one treating this like I hate all transgender people or something.

Eh? At what point in our exchange have I done this? Are you confusing me for another poster?

[Riiser-Larsen]

How exactly? I mean, I can understand asexuality, their body just doesn't have a sex drive, but how in hell could your body simply produce NO hormones?

Their physiology is that way? Rather like people who do not produce lithium and have to take it.

This is however more than just the production or absence of hormones. There's a psychological issue here too.

Lithium is not the same thing as testosterone or estrogen. It would be like if your body simply didn't produce Amino Acids, or Vitamin A, or serotonin.

[Techno-Titania]

If they want to be male and female is fine with me. Twice the taxes!

[Galloism]

Are you of the opinion that your personal identity is 100% determined by hormone levels?

No cognitive function?

I never said that. What I am confused about is how a human could just have no gender. That doesn't even make an evolutionary sense, so I find it hard to believe that's even a common thing.

Gender comes with all sorts of bullshit societal baggage - girls have dolls, boys have gi Joe's. Women stay in the kitchen, and men are violent psychopaths.

It's no wonder some have said that no gender applies to them.

[Othelos]

Are you of the opinion that your personal identity is 100% determined by hormone levels?

No cognitive function?

I never said that. What I am confused about is how a human could just have no gender. That doesn't even make an evolutionary sense, so I find it hard to believe that's even a common thing.

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

[Othelos]

If they want to be male and female is fine with me. Twice the taxes!

I think that you're confusing intersex with trans.

[Riiser-Larsen]

I'm not really being alarmist, what I specifically said was that I only have an issue with Transgender people who expect to be treated in special ways.

Indeed. I noticed. Hence the absence of any derogatory themes in my responses to you.

From what you've described, that's the vast minority, so it's not really an issue.

Indeed. The vocal minority that demand special treatment are an incredibly vocal minority and merit little consideration. The majority aren't acting like you've described.

You're really the only one treating this like I hate all transgender people or something.

Eh? At what point in our exchange have I done this? Are you confusing me for another poster?

You described me as being alarmist about a non-issue. What I said was that I never had an issue with transgender people, I just didn't like the attention-seeking behavior some exhibited. You're the one who blew that up into an argument about how I must have some kind of disrespect for transgender people or else I would put up with their demands.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Their physiology is that way? Rather like people who do not produce lithium and have to take it.

This is however more than just the production or absence of hormones. There's a psychological issue here too.

Lithium is not the same thing as testosterone or estrogen. It would be like if your body simply didn't produce Amino Acids, or Vitamin A, or serotonin.

I think you're mistaking lack of gender with lack of hormone production, which is in no way related with the other.

[Distruzio]

Their physiology is that way? Rather like people who do not produce lithium and have to take it.

This is however more than just the production or absence of hormones. There's a psychological issue here too.

Lithium is not the same thing as testosterone or estrogen. It would be like if your body simply didn't produce Amino Acids, or Vitamin A, or serotonin.

So you do understand what all this is about then.

[Distruzio]

Indeed. I noticed. Hence the absence of any derogatory themes in my responses to you.



Indeed. The vocal minority that demand special treatment are an incredibly vocal minority and merit little consideration. The majority aren't acting like you've described.



Eh? At what point in our exchange have I done this? Are you confusing me for another poster?

You described me as being alarmist about a non-issue. What I said was that I never had an issue with transgender people, I just didn't like the attention-seeking behavior some exhibited. You're the one who blew that up into an argument about how I must have some kind of disrespect for transgender people or else I would put up with their demands.

Umm... you're definitely confusing me for someone else.

[Riiser-Larsen]

I never said that. What I am confused about is how a human could just have no gender. That doesn't even make an evolutionary sense, so I find it hard to believe that's even a common thing.

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

I'm not saying just that I don't understand it, I'm saying that it provides no evolutionary advantage whatsoever. Not even like Cystic Fibrosis, which is theorized to give some form of defense against TB. This literally has no reason to exist whatsoever, so I find it hard to believe that it actually does in any significant number.

[Distruzio]

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

I'm not saying just that I don't understand it, I'm saying that it provides no evolutionary advantage whatsoever. Not even like Cystic Fibrosis, which is theorized to give some form of defense against TB. This literally has no reason to exist whatsoever, so I find it hard to believe that it actually does in any significant number.

Why do you assume there is a significant number of transgendered individuals?

[Riiser-Larsen]

Lithium is not the same thing as testosterone or estrogen. It would be like if your body simply didn't produce Amino Acids, or Vitamin A, or serotonin.

I think you're mistaking lack of gender with lack of hormone production, which is in no way related with the other.

Well I asked if this was something where they simply produced no hormones, and no one said anything until now, so I just kinda assumed that's what it was. If you could enlighten me as to how exactly someone could simply have no gender, that would be helpful.

[The Union of the West]

I don't see how someone's gender identity is anyone else's business.

[Riiser-Larsen]

I'm not saying just that I don't understand it, I'm saying that it provides no evolutionary advantage whatsoever. Not even like Cystic Fibrosis, which is theorized to give some form of defense against TB. This literally has no reason to exist whatsoever, so I find it hard to believe that it actually does in any significant number.

Why do you assume there is a significant number of transgendered individuals?

Not transgendered, non-gendered.

[Threlizdun]

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

I'm not saying just that I don't understand it, I'm saying that it provides no evolutionary advantage whatsoever. Not even like Cystic Fibrosis, which is theorized to give some form of defense against TB. This literally has no reason to exist whatsoever, so I find it hard to believe that it actually does in any significant number.

No, it doesn't provide any evolutionary advantage, which is why there are so few individuals who do not identify with a gender. Plenty of things arise as accidents of evolution rather serving as advantageous characteristics.

[Distruzio]

Why do you assume there is a significant number of transgendered individuals?

Not transgendered, non-gendered.

Fair enough. I've admitted already that I understood your position in that light.