Public Opinion on Transgender Persons

[Ulrenon]

It may be wrong to you, but it isn't wrong to a good amount of people. Noone shares the same universal ideal.

Not even that, it's also grammatically wrong.

What if they are referring to a singular transexual? Maybe someone would use they if it was more than one.

[Othelos]

Not even that, it's also grammatically wrong.

What if they are referring to a singular transexual? Maybe someone would use they if it was more than one.

I don't think 'they' is proper, either, but that's the closest gender-neutral pronoun that English has.

[Riiser-Larsen]

I have no problem with it after they have the surgery. Both from an english language perspective and from a medical perspective, I'm not going to treat them like a man and use male pronouns unless they have male genitals, and vice-versa. I do not like the idea of someone thinking that they should be treated in a special way simply because they think that they're special. Until they actually take actions to change that (like having a gender alteration surgery) I'm not going to treat them any differently.

Many trans people never have 'the surgery' for various reasons. Sex and gender are two different things, and they don't always match. They're not looking for 'special' treatment, they just want to be themselves, just like everybody else wants to be.

Right, they're not asking for special treatment when they expect me to use a special set of pronouns, or to consider and treat them like a different gender from what they for all purposes appear to be.

Facepalming, you're making me do it. *sigh*

I was not aware that asking "why" was a stupid thing to do. My bad, I'll just hold no opinions and do whatever you tell me to do because you're obviously infallible and have no flaws whatsoever.

[Rocopurr]

I'll take consideration for their comfort when someone can find me a good reason that they believe they are the wrong gender, like a genetic anomaly or a chemical imbalance. As it stands, if it's only someone's opinion or belief that they're the wrong gender, I'm not doing anything special for them. Doing so would minimize the struggle of people who actually do have genetic anomalies or chemical imbalances that cause them to be different than the societal norms, like people who are homosexual or asexual.

Trans people's brains are different; it's psychological. Gimme a minute to find some articles about it.

Here we go.

Many trans people never have 'the surgery' for various reasons. Sex and gender are two different things, and they don't always match. They're not looking for 'special' treatment, they just want to be themselves, just like everybody else wants to be.

Right, they're not asking for special treatment when they expect me to use a special set of pronouns, or to consider and treat them like a different gender from what they for all purposes appear to be.

Facepalming, you're making me do it. *sigh*

I was not aware that asking "why" was a stupid thing to do. My bad, I'll just hold no opinions and do whatever you tell me to do because you're obviously infallible and have no flaws whatsoever.

Why did you change my post to Nana's?

[Othelos]

Many trans people never have 'the surgery' for various reasons. Sex and gender are two different things, and they don't always match. They're not looking for 'special' treatment, they just want to be themselves, just like everybody else wants to be.

Right, they're not asking for special treatment when they expect me to use a special set of pronouns, or to consider and treat them like a different gender from what they for all purposes appear to be.

So? It's not gonna hurt you.

[Riiser-Larsen]

I'll take consideration for their comfort when someone can find me a good reason that they believe they are the wrong gender, like a genetic anomaly or a chemical imbalance. As it stands, if it's only someone's opinion or belief that they're the wrong gender, I'm not doing anything special for them. Doing so would minimize the struggle of people who actually do have genetic anomalies or chemical imbalances that cause them to be different than the societal norms, like people who are homosexual or asexual.

Why not just treat people as they express to be treated when they express to be treated in a certain way. It's pretty simple. If someone presents themselves female.... treat them as you would another female. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

Because sometimes people don't get to decide how they want to be treated. If I have a friend who demands I refer to him with the title "Emperor" I'm not going to because he isn't an emperor, and I'm not going to indulge that. Given what some other people have said, this is a purely psychological thing. I have no problem if they decide "I want to be a woman" and then have a gender-alteration surgery to become a women. I have a problem with someone saying "I want to be a women" but not wanting to put the effort in so they just make everyone treat them like they're a woman. If people want to be considered in a certain way, they should work for it, instead of just expecting people to give them what they want.

[Distruzio]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/15/transgender-rights-movement_n_4448993.html

I was wondering, how does the NationStates community feel about transgender persons? Personally, I am a generally accepting person as I care not as much about their labels but as them as individuals. I would like the inquire into the overall general opinion of people here however. Furthermore, how do you feel about transphobia and what do you think are the best ways of reducing it in society? I ask users to please remain civil and respectful for this discussion and will personally report any flaming or threatening behavior. I would also like to ask you all to participate in the poll.

I find F2M transgenders to be lovely. In fact, I've dated more F2M transgendered women than I have cisgendered women. There is no difference from my experience aside from the higher likelihood that a transwoman will be more feminine than a ciswoman. My opinions on gender/sexual preference equality absolutely influence my opinions on the value of the trans community of the nation to the nation.

[Riiser-Larsen]

Right, they're not asking for special treatment when they expect me to use a special set of pronouns, or to consider and treat them like a different gender from what they for all purposes appear to be.

So? It's not gonna hurt you.

No, it's not going to hurt me. Neither is fueling my friends heroin addiction, or telling a schizophrenic friend that his hallucinations are real. Whether or not something hurts you is not the only deciding factor in whether or not you do things.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Many trans people never have 'the surgery' for various reasons. Sex and gender are two different things, and they don't always match. They're not looking for 'special' treatment, they just want to be themselves, just like everybody else wants to be.

Right, they're not asking for special treatment when they expect me to use a special set of pronouns, or to consider and treat them like a different gender from what they for all purposes appear to be.

Facepalming, you're making me do it. *sigh*

I was not aware that asking "why" was a stupid thing to do. My bad, I'll just hold no opinions and do whatever you tell me to do because you're obviously infallible and have no flaws whatsoever.

Wrong attribution and no, I have many flaws. Many. However, I know that it is not about people presenting evidence as to why someone thinks their gender is wrong. It's about addressing people how they wish to be addressed. Something I can do because I respect people.

Calling a trans woman her, because she wishes to be addressed as such, because she feels she's a woman despite having been born biologically male, is fine by me. Because I understand that it is also about their psychology. It doesn't harm me. It just makes me accepting which I like to think I am. Plain and simple.

[Othelos]

Why not just treat people as they express to be treated when they express to be treated in a certain way. It's pretty simple. If someone presents themselves female.... treat them as you would another female. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

Because sometimes people don't get to decide how they want to be treated. If I have a friend who demands I refer to him with the title "Emperor" I'm not going to because he isn't an emperor, and I'm not going to indulge that. Given what some other people have said, this is a purely psychological thing. I have no problem if they decide "I want to be a woman" and then have a gender-alteration surgery to become a women. I have a problem with someone saying "I want to be a women" but not wanting to put the effort in so they just make everyone treat them like they're a woman. If people want to be considered in a certain way, they should work for it, instead of just expecting people to give them what they want.

So you're disrespectful towards people until they earn your respect?

[Distruzio]

Right, they're not asking for special treatment when they expect me to use a special set of pronouns, or to consider and treat them like a different gender from what they for all purposes appear to be.

With respect, that isn't true. You aren't being asked to treat a transgender as a gender alien to the gender they are. You're being asked to treat them as the gender they, for all purposes, actually are.

[Tekania]

Many trans people never have 'the surgery' for various reasons. Sex and gender are two different things, and they don't always match. They're not looking for 'special' treatment, they just want to be themselves, just like everybody else wants to be.

Right, they're not asking for special treatment when they expect me to use a special set of pronouns, or to consider and treat them like a different gender from what they for all purposes appear to be.[/quote]

They generally present themselves in the gender they expect to be addressed as... Chaz Bono, presents himself as male. Thus, you treat him as you would any other guy. Not really a difficult task at all.

[Riiser-Larsen]

Trans people's brains are different; it's psychological. Gimme a minute to find some articles about it.

Here we go.

Right, they're not asking for special treatment when they expect me to use a special set of pronouns, or to consider and treat them like a different gender from what they for all purposes appear to be.


I was not aware that asking "why" was a stupid thing to do. My bad, I'll just hold no opinions and do whatever you tell me to do because you're obviously infallible and have no flaws whatsoever.

Why did you change my post to Nana's?

I don't think I did, but if I did then it was probably just a mix-up in how I was quoting.

[Norstal]

It's more of an issue of comfort and not an issue of thinking they're special. Being misgendered can be a very dysphoric experience for some trans people (especially when it's deliberate).

I'll take consideration for their comfort when someone can find me a good reason that they believe they are the wrong gender, like a genetic anomaly or a chemical imbalance. As it stands, if it's only someone's opinion or belief that they're the wrong gender, I'm not doing anything special for them. Doing so would minimize the struggle of people who actually do have genetic anomalies or chemical imbalances that cause them to be different than the societal norms, like people who are homosexual or asexual.

I can kinda see your point. However, people who haven't had surgery might have those genetic anomalies or chemical imbalances and not be able to afford the surgery. Their problems may be real. So it's just more respectful to call them what they want to be called regardless if they had surgery or not.

[The Republic of Merrimont]

OMGERD TTRANSGEDNER PEOPLE ARE IMMORAL AND WRONG AND THETY SHOULD BE EXEUCUTED

But seriously I'm fine with them and i don't mind them at all

[Riiser-Larsen]

Because sometimes people don't get to decide how they want to be treated. If I have a friend who demands I refer to him with the title "Emperor" I'm not going to because he isn't an emperor, and I'm not going to indulge that. Given what some other people have said, this is a purely psychological thing. I have no problem if they decide "I want to be a woman" and then have a gender-alteration surgery to become a women. I have a problem with someone saying "I want to be a women" but not wanting to put the effort in so they just make everyone treat them like they're a woman. If people want to be considered in a certain way, they should work for it, instead of just expecting people to give them what they want.

So you're disrespectful towards people until they earn your respect?

I'm disrespectful towards people who demand I give them their respect when they've done nothing to earn it. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!" but you just want to be a war hero and have never joined the military, you're trying to leech of the perceived respect that people who have been in war get. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!", while holding your badge, and proceed to regale me with the story of how you saved a group of civilians and injured soldiers from Taliban, then you will have all my respect.

To quote The Godfather "Respect is earned, not given. These people have done nothing to earn my respect."

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

So you're disrespectful towards people until they earn your respect?

I'm disrespectful towards people who demand I give them their respect when they've done nothing to earn it. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!" but you just want to be a war hero and have never joined the military, you're trying to leech of the perceived respect that people who have been in war get. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!", while holding your badge, and proceed to regale me with the story of how you saved a group of civilians and injured soldiers from Taliban, then you will have all my respect.

To quote The Godfather "Respect is earned, not given. These people have done nothing to earn my respect."

So, instead of calling someone the way they wish to be addressed as, they have to earn that in your eyes? WTF?

[Riiser-Larsen]

Right, they're not asking for special treatment when they expect me to use a special set of pronouns, or to consider and treat them like a different gender from what they for all purposes appear to be.

They generally present themselves in the gender they expect to be addressed as... Chaz Bono, presents himself as male. Thus, you treat him as you would any other guy. Not really a difficult task at all.

Then if they do that, I don't have a problem. If they look like a girl, and go around shouting "My name is Chaz Bono, and I identify as a man!" and expect people to treat them in a special way, then I'm going to have a problem. While there are a lot of transsexuals who present themselves as males, and look male, and sometimes even get the surgery to become a male, there are also those who make no effort whatsoever and simply expect people to treat them in a special way.

[Othelos]

So you're disrespectful towards people until they earn your respect?

I'm disrespectful towards people who demand I give them their respect when they've done nothing to earn it. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!" but you just want to be a war hero and have never joined the military, you're trying to leech of the perceived respect that people who have been in war get. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!", while holding your badge, and proceed to regale me with the story of how you saved a group of civilians and injured soldiers from Taliban, then you will have all my respect.

To quote The Godfather "Respect is earned, not given. These people have done nothing to earn my respect."

Well, a pre-op trans female can explain to you how she is female, for example.

[Othelos]

They generally present themselves in the gender they expect to be addressed as... Chaz Bono, presents himself as male. Thus, you treat him as you would any other guy. Not really a difficult task at all.

Then if they do that, I don't have a problem. If they look like a girl, and go around shouting "My name is Chaz Bono, and I identify as a man!" and expect people to treat them in a special way, then I'm going to have a problem. While there are a lot of transsexuals who present themselves as males, and look male, and sometimes even get the surgery to become a male, there are also those who make no effort whatsoever and simply expect people to treat them in a special way.

Why is calling someone their preferred pronoun such a big deal to you? It's not going to hurt you, and it doesn't effect you in any way.

[Riiser-Larsen]

I'm disrespectful towards people who demand I give them their respect when they've done nothing to earn it. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!" but you just want to be a war hero and have never joined the military, you're trying to leech of the perceived respect that people who have been in war get. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!", while holding your badge, and proceed to regale me with the story of how you saved a group of civilians and injured soldiers from Taliban, then you will have all my respect.

To quote The Godfather "Respect is earned, not given. These people have done nothing to earn my respect."

Well, a pre-op trans female can explain to you how she is female, for example.

This is exactly the sort of english issue I'm talking about. I have no idea if you're talking about a male person who wants to become female, or a female person who wants to become male.

[Norstal]

Then if they do that, I don't have a problem. If they look like a girl, and go around shouting "My name is Chaz Bono, and I identify as a man!" and expect people to treat them in a special way, then I'm going to have a problem. While there are a lot of transsexuals who present themselves as males, and look male, and sometimes even get the surgery to become a male, there are also those who make no effort whatsoever and simply expect people to treat them in a special way.

Why is calling someone their preferred pronoun such a big deal to you? It's not going to hurt you, and it doesn't effect you in any way.

Doing so would minimize the struggle of people who actually do have genetic anomalies or chemical imbalances that cause them to be different than the societal norms, like people who are homosexual or asexual.

Not that I agree with it mind you.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Well, a pre-op trans female can explain to you how she is female, for example.

This is exactly the sort of english issue I'm talking about. I have no idea if you're talking about a male person who wants to become female, or a female person who wants to become male.

Why does it matter?

[Distruzio]

So you're disrespectful towards people until they earn your respect?

I'm disrespectful towards people who demand I give them their respect when they've done nothing to earn it. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!" but you just want to be a war hero and have never joined the military, you're trying to leech of the perceived respect that people who have been in war get. If you walk up to me and say "I'M A WAR HERO!", while holding your badge, and proceed to regale me with the story of how you saved a group of civilians and injured soldiers from Taliban, then you will have all my respect.

To quote The Godfather "Respect is earned, not given. These people have done nothing to earn my respect."

Neither of those examples suggest a person worthy of respect, in my opinion.

[Tekania]

Why not just treat people as they express to be treated when they express to be treated in a certain way. It's pretty simple. If someone presents themselves female.... treat them as you would another female. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

Because sometimes people don't get to decide how they want to be treated. If I have a friend who demands I refer to him with the title "Emperor" I'm not going to because he isn't an emperor, and I'm not going to indulge that. Given what some other people have said, this is a purely psychological thing. I have no problem if they decide "I want to be a woman" and then have a gender-alteration surgery to become a women. I have a problem with someone saying "I want to be a women" but not wanting to put the effort in so they just make everyone treat them like they're a woman. If people want to be considered in a certain way, they should work for it, instead of just expecting people to give them what they want.

Because people don't get to decide is not a reason to be disrespectful. Once again, I asked you WHY not just treat people as they express to be treated.... I didn't ask how you liked to express your person as an asshole.