Your gender identity and sexual orientation?

[Threlizdun]

The structure of the brain is not correlated simply with sex, but with gender. Brain scans of transgender individuals have found their brains to appear more similar to those of the gender they identify as than to cisgender members of their own sex. There absolutely does appear to be a physical basis for gender.

No, they appear more similar to those of the opposite sex. There is not brain structure associated with a particular gender, only a particular sex. Genders are then imposed onto said sexes. In a "transgender" person, they have the brain structure associated with the opposite sex. This results in the perception that the body they have is of the wrong sex, thus the rejection of the body and thus the gender stereotype associated with it.

This would be a reasonable hypothesis were it not for the fact that many transgender people do not encounter body dysphoria and possess no desire to change their sex. If the characteristics of a certain gender seem to be exclusively tied to the brain structure of those who identify as that gender, then it makes sense to presume it is the gender, not the sex, that describes such personality aspects. Gender developed to aid sexes in fulfilling evolutionary beneficial tasks. This is true, but the fact that people identify as the gender their brain tells them to identify as rather than their sex shows that the notion that gender is nothing more than the social aspects of sex is demonstrably false. Gender evolved to serve such a role, but it is not exclusive to it, otherwise transgender individuals would not exist.

[Olivaero]

On the subject of Otherkin I think they are wrongfully lumped into the whole Identity thing, they're really more religious/spiritual. Or at least that's the impression I got from them.

[Conscentia]

Genders seem to be little more than stereotypes imposed on the biological sexes.

If this were true then Gender Dysphoria wouldn't exist. A social construct is more than a stereotype.

What?
Firstly, stereotypes are a social construct.
Secondly, what I've said is entirely compatible with the existing of gender dysphoria.
Genders are then imposed onto the sexes. In a "transgender" person, they have the brain structure associated with the opposite sex. This results in the perception that the body they have is of the wrong sex, thus the rejection of the body and thus the gender stereotype associated with it. That is the cause of
Thirdly, gender dysphoria has nothing to do with social construct.

[The United Remnants of America]

I'm assuming metrosexual is not an official gender, so I'll just go with heterogeneous, then.

[Conscentia]

No, they appear more similar to those of the opposite sex. There is not brain structure associated with a particular gender, only a particular sex. Genders are then imposed onto said sexes. In a "transgender" person, they have the brain structure associated with the opposite sex. This results in the perception that the body they have is of the wrong sex, thus the rejection of the body and thus the gender stereotype associated with it.

This would be a reasonable hypothesis were it not for the fact that many transgender people do not encounter body dysphoria and possess no desire to change their sex. If the characteristics of a certain gender seem to be exclusively tied to the brain structure of those who identify as that gender, then it makes sense to presume it is the gender, not the sex, that describes such personality aspects. Gender developed to aid sexes in fulfilling evolutionary beneficial tasks. This is true, but the fact that people identify as the gender their brain tells them to identify as rather than their sex shows that the notion that gender is nothing more than the social aspects of sex is demonstrably false. Gender evolved to serve such a role, but it is not exclusive to it, otherwise transgender individuals would not exist.

Okay, you're going to have to clarify what you're saying.
Did this study people who did not conform to the stereotypes, or people who with gender dysphoria? Because to me, transgender refers to a person with gender dysphoria, while those simply not conforming to the gender stereotypes imposed onto their sex is referred to by other terms.

[Olivaero]

If this were true then Gender Dysphoria wouldn't exist. A social construct is more than a stereotype.

What?
Firstly, stereotypes are a social construct.
Secondly, what I've said is entirely compatible with the
existing of gender dysphoria.
Genders are then imposed onto the sexes. In a "transgender" person, they have the brain structure associated with the opposite sex. This results in the perception that the body they have is of the wrong sex, thus the rejection of the body and thus the gender stereotype associated with it. That is the cause of

However people of non binary gender suffer from gender dysphoria too... How can non binary genders exist as stereotypes when they exist largely from gender dysphoric people experimenting to find where their mid point is between male and female?

EDIT: yeah I derped a bit a bit on saying social constructs are more than stereotypes what I meant is that some social constructs are more biologically rooted than others Like family compared to stereotypes for example.

[Conscentia]

What?
Firstly, stereotypes are a social construct.
Secondly, what I've said is entirely compatible with the
existing of gender dysphoria.
Genders are then imposed onto the sexes. In a "transgender" person, they have the brain structure associated with the opposite sex. This results in the perception that the body they have is of the wrong sex, thus the rejection of the body and thus the gender stereotype associated with it. That is the cause of

However people of non binary gender suffer from gender dysphoria too... How can non binary genders exist as stereotypes when they exist largely from gender dysphoric people experimenting to find where their mid point is between male and female?

"Non-binary" is a term invented in rejection of the stereotypes.

[Olivaero]

However people of non binary gender suffer from gender dysphoria too... How can non binary genders exist as stereotypes when they exist largely from gender dysphoric people experimenting to find where their mid point is between male and female?

"Non-binary" is a term invented in rejection of the stereotypes.

Then why do they suffer dysphoria until they "Reject stereotypes" but stop suffering from it before they have had SRS?

[Threlizdun]

This would be a reasonable hypothesis were it not for the fact that many transgender people do not encounter body dysphoria and possess no desire to change their sex. If the characteristics of a certain gender seem to be exclusively tied to the brain structure of those who identify as that gender, then it makes sense to presume it is the gender, not the sex, that describes such personality aspects. Gender developed to aid sexes in fulfilling evolutionary beneficial tasks. This is true, but the fact that people identify as the gender their brain tells them to identify as rather than their sex shows that the notion that gender is nothing more than the social aspects of sex is demonstrably false. Gender evolved to serve such a role, but it is not exclusive to it, otherwise transgender individuals would not exist.

Okay, you're going to have to clarify what you're saying.
Did this study people who did not conform to the stereotypes, or people who with gender dysphoria? Because to me, transgender refers to a person with gender dysphoria, while those simply not conforming to the gender stereotypes imposed onto their sex is referred to by other terms.

This is a study on ftm transgender individuals
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... _47_-29LCQ
And this is one of mtf individuals
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v3 ... 068a0.html

"Transgender" simply recognizes that one possess a gender identity that does not match their physical sex. It is a very broad term that may or may not include body dysphoria. Many however do not have body dysphoria and possess no desire to undergo any body modification. "Transsexual" meanwhile implies body dysphoria and the need to transition sexes to accommodate one's gender identity. They can be explained a bit further here.
http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

[Threlizdun]

However people of non binary gender suffer from gender dysphoria too... How can non binary genders exist as stereotypes when they exist largely from gender dysphoric people experimenting to find where their mid point is between male and female?

"Non-binary" is a term invented in rejection of the stereotypes.

No, non-binary individuals are entirely capable of possessing body dysphoria pertaining to their sex. Non-binary individuals who possess developed breasts often wear chest binders for example. Some may took hormones or undergo plastic surgery to reach a look they are comfortable with. Most are adamant about being referred to using their preferred pronoun and become very upset and uncomfortable when they are misgendered. It is a serious identity, not just a rejection of stereotypes.

[Immoren]

I'm non-binary and totally gay.

You areone of them hexadecimal people, aren't you?

[Grenartia]

"Non-binary" is a term invented in rejection of the stereotypes.

No, non-binary individuals are entirely capable of possessing body dysphoria pertaining to their sex. Non-binary individuals who possess developed breasts often wear chest binders for example. Some may took hormones or undergo plastic surgery to reach a look they are comfortable with. Most are adamant about being referred to using their preferred pronoun and become very upset and uncomfortable when they are misgendered. It is a serious identity, not just a rejection of stereotypes.

Non-binary individual here. Confirming I have dysphoria.

[Araraukar]

3. From google:

sexual orientation - a person's sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.

Asexuality exists, my point is just that it doesn't count as an orientation, because it's the lack of one.

According to your own definition, pansexual isn't an orientation either.

Obviously human should be like that species of fish that start their life's as females, but transition into male as they reach certain age.
Or vice versa. *nods*

We should be brightly colored and build our homes in anemone?

I think those fish change from male to female. Or was it seabass? One or the other. Either way, I'd be perfectly happy changing from female to male naturally, even if I had to live in an anemone.

I must say I feel a kinship, but not because I identify as an elf or some other mythical creature. I'm very much a human being. But because I understand how you can feel other than human at times.

I think this sounded too strange.

Don't be silly, Nanatsu, you're a perfectly non-strange kittycat.

Between different genders? Explainable through environmental causes, and because they correlate with the sexes which demonstrate sexual dimorphism in brain structure anyway. Doesn't mean there is anything physical about genders. They are stereotypes imposed on the sexes.

Threlizdun already said some of this.

There are physical "male" brain structures and physical "female" brain structures, but any gender/sex/orientation-combination can have either or both for each bit. There's no really "male brain" or "female brain" (except size in some cases - males often have bigger head, thus bigger brain, but females have higher neuron density, so it averages to as many connections for each sex), just "more male/female on [function that requires central nervous system input]".

Those differences exist. They don't always conform to stereotypes, but (and I'm not putting in the percentage, because I'm too tired to go trawling for the research report I read (some) year(s) ago) for many people they do. This isn't to say that upbringing couldn't make you more apt at something, even if your brain's wiring didn't predispose you into being good at it, just that the differences do exist.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

3. From google:

sexual orientation - a person's sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.

Asexuality exists, my point is just that it doesn't count as an orientation, because it's the lack of one.

According to your own definition, pansexual isn't an orientation either.

We should be brightly colored and build our homes in anemone?

I think those fish change from male to female. Or was it seabass? One or the other. Either way, I'd be perfectly happy changing from female to male naturally, even if I had to live in an anemone.

I must say I feel a kinship, but not because I identify as an elf or some other mythical creature. I'm very much a human being. But because I understand how you can feel other than human at times.

I think this sounded too strange.

Don't be silly, Nanatsu, you're a perfectly non-strange kittycat.

Between different genders? Explainable through environmental causes, and because they correlate with the sexes which demonstrate sexual dimorphism in brain structure anyway. Doesn't mean there is anything physical about genders. They are stereotypes imposed on the sexes.

Threlizdun already said some of this.

There are physical "male" brain structures and physical "female" brain structures, but any gender/sex/orientation-combination can have either or both for each bit. There's no really "male brain" or "female brain" (except size in some cases - males often have bigger head, thus bigger brain, but females have higher neuron density, so it averages to as many connections for each sex), just "more male/female on [function that requires central nervous system input]".

Those differences exist. They don't always conform to stereotypes, but (and I'm not putting in the percentage, because I'm too tired to go trawling for the research report I read (some) year(s) ago) for many people they do. This isn't to say that upbringing couldn't make you more apt at something, even if your brain's wiring didn't predispose you into being good at it, just that the differences do exist.

Cat is the next stage in evolution, Arara.

[Lies and Ignorance]

I'm non-binary and totally gay.

You areone of them hexadecimal people, aren't you?

Sure, why not?

[Othelos]

3. From google:

sexual orientation - a person's sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.

Asexuality exists, my point is just that it doesn't count as an orientation, because it's the lack of one.

According to your own definition, pansexual isn't an orientation either.

The actual definition of sexual orientation is the important part, not the examples of it.

[Araraukar]

3. From google:

sexual orientation - a person's sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.

Asexuality exists, my point is just that it doesn't count as an orientation, because it's the lack of one.

The actual definition of sexual orientation is the important part, not the examples of it.

Alright, if that's your stance, then that is what your source says. Still doesn't define pan (as that doesn't mean being attracted to a specific gender or genders, from what pan individuals here have said). If you're using that as an excuse to say asexual isn't an orientation, you're going to have to find a better excuse, because, like I said before, it doesn't even acknowledge pansexual as being an orientation.

Why can't you just accept they both are just as valid as being bi/gay/straight?

[Conscentia]

Okay, you're going to have to clarify what you're saying.
Did this study people who did not conform to the stereotypes, or people who with gender dysphoria? Because to me, transgender refers to a person with gender dysphoria, while those simply not conforming to the gender stereotypes imposed onto their sex is referred to by other terms.

This is a study on ftm transgender individuals
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... _47_-29LCQ
And this is one of mtf individuals
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v3 ... 068a0.html

"Transgender" simply recognizes that one possess a gender identity that does not match their physical sex. It is a very broad term that may or may not include body dysphoria. Many however do not have body dysphoria and possess no desire to undergo any body modification. "Transsexual" meanwhile implies body dysphoria and the need to transition sexes to accommodate one's gender identity. They can be explained a bit further here.
http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

Those studies are about transsexual individuals, not transgender individuals.

"Non-binary" is a term invented in rejection of the stereotypes.

No, non-binary individuals are entirely capable of possessing body dysphoria pertaining to their sex. Non-binary individuals who possess developed breasts often wear chest binders for example. Some may took hormones or undergo plastic surgery to reach a look they are comfortable with. Most are adamant about being referred to using their preferred pronoun and become very upset and uncomfortable when they are misgendered. It is a serious identity, not just a rejection of stereotypes.

The rejection of pre-existing stereotypes implies association with an alternative identity. None of that is incompatible with what I've said.

[Conscentia]

No, non-binary individuals are entirely capable of possessing body dysphoria pertaining to their sex. Non-binary individuals who possess developed breasts often wear chest binders for example. Some may took hormones or undergo plastic surgery to reach a look they are comfortable with. Most are adamant about being referred to using their preferred pronoun and become very upset and uncomfortable when they are misgendered. It is a serious identity, not just a rejection of stereotypes.

Non-binary individual here. Confirming I have dysphoria.

Well Ra did seem more androgynous than the other goa'uld...

Between different genders? Explainable through environmental causes, and because they correlate with the sexes which demonstrate sexual dimorphism in brain structure anyway. Doesn't mean there is anything physical about genders. They are stereotypes imposed on the sexes.

Threlizdun already said some of this.

There are physical "male" brain structures and physical "female" brain structures, but any gender/sex/orientation-combination can have either or both for each bit. There's no really "male brain" or "female brain" (except size in some cases - males often have bigger head, thus bigger brain, but females have higher neuron density, so it averages to as many connections for each sex), just "more male/female on [function that requires central nervous system input]".

Those differences exist. They don't always conform to stereotypes, but (and I'm not putting in the percentage, because I'm too tired to go trawling for the research report I read (some) year(s) ago) for many people they do. This isn't to say that upbringing couldn't make you more apt at something, even if your brain's wiring didn't predispose you into being good at it, just that the differences do exist.

That would be why I said "associated with".

[The Archregimancy]

I, for one, find it very odd that these identities you speak of are only ever mentioned on NSG by people like you.

They're generally mentioned on Tumblr, and they are a good source of material for humor. The cultural left of NSG need to lighten up every once in a while before returning to their lives of self-loathing and hormone-driven rage.

Teenagers trying to mock something they think is stupid with all the wit of their schoolmates yelling homophobic slurs at people beating them in COD. It's almost as though the problem isn't pre-teens on Tumblr making up contrived bullshit, it's you desperately trying to be cooler than them.

No, I just enjoy their reactions when they realize that no one cares about what they've made up. Their little temper tantrums are so cute.

*** Libertarian California deleted for continued trolling and clear unwillingness to abide by site rules. ***

[Valica]

They're generally mentioned on Tumblr, and they are a good source of material for humor. The cultural left of NSG need to lighten up every once in a while before returning to their lives of self-loathing and hormone-driven rage.



No, I just enjoy their reactions when they realize that no one cares about what they've made up. Their little temper tantrums are so cute.

*** Libertarian California deleted for continued trolling and clear unwillingness to abide by site rules. ***

Thank God. I was getting sick of that dude on so many levels.

[Valica]

I'm assuming metrosexual is not an official gender, so I'll just go with heterogeneous, then.

Metrosexuality is hard to define.
How often do you get hit on by gay dudes?

[Farnhamia]

*** Libertarian California deleted for continued trolling and clear unwillingness to abide by site rules. ***

Thank God. I was getting sick of that dude on so many levels.

*** Gloating over punishments handed out to other players is not acceptable. ***

[Othelos]

The actual definition of sexual orientation is the important part, not the examples of it.

Alright, if that's your stance, then that is what your source says. Still doesn't define pan (as that doesn't mean being attracted to a specific gender or genders, from what pan individuals here have said). If you're using that as an excuse to say asexual isn't an orientation, you're going to have to find a better excuse, because, like I said before, it doesn't even acknowledge pansexual as being an orientation.

Why can't you just accept they both are just as valid as being bi/gay/straight?

When did I say that they weren't as valid?

I never argued that.

Also, pan is a sexual orientation because pan people are oriented to all sexes/genders. Asexual is the lack of an orientation, because it means that the person isn't oriented towards anyone.

[Lies and Ignorance]

Also, pan is a sexual orientation because pan people are oriented to all sexes/genders. Asexual is the lack of an orientation, because it means that the person isn't oriented towards anyone.

I kind of disagree that asexuality is the "lack" of a sexual orientation. You're correct that it means lack of sexual attraction (i.e. attraction to no genders) but as per being a description of an individual's relationship to others, it's still a normal sexual orientation.