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Woman finds a Nazi symbol in her chicken sandwich.

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Digital Planets
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Founded: Jul 27, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Digital Planets » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:24 am

This is funny.
"I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Except you Renae, you're an asshole." -Voltaire(sic)

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The Sotoan Union
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Founded: Nov 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sotoan Union » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:25 am

Calisu wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
:D I would be happy to retract if you can show US history sporting it regularly.

Not how onus works and I could show 100 examples and you'd still claim it wasn't "regularly".

If I showed you a hammer and sickle would you think of farmers and workers, or would you think of Russia?

The swastika has racist connotations more than anything else, and its ignorant to say that its religious connotations are equal to its racist connotations.

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The Land of Truth
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Founded: Jun 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Land of Truth » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:27 am

The Sotoan Union wrote:
Calisu wrote:Not how onus works and I could show 100 examples and you'd still claim it wasn't "regularly".

If I showed you a hammer and sickle would you think of farmers and workers, or would you think of Russia?

The swastika has racist connotations more than anything else, and its ignorant to say that its religious connotations are equal to its racist connotations.

Or, at least in the Western world, anyway. He might (might) have a point had this been in, say, India. But it wasn't.
RP: We are the Principality of New Vasconia! (Occupied by the Kingdom of Austiana.)
Personal: I am a 17-year old theological noncognitivist and atheist from the southern United States. I am a social democrat and democratic socialist.
98% of all Internet users would cry if Facebook broke down. If you are part of that 2% who simply would sit back and laugh, copy and paste this into your sig. Don't tell me what to do!
Ec: -8.62; Soc: -5.44

Your argument is invalid.

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Calisu
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Founded: Aug 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Calisu » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:27 am

The Sotoan Union wrote:
Calisu wrote:Not how onus works and I could show 100 examples and you'd still claim it wasn't "regularly".

If I showed you a hammer and sickle would you think of farmers and workers, or would you think of Russia?

The swastika has racist connotations more than anything else, and its ignorant to say that its religious connotations are equal to its racist connotations.

Of course the religious connotations aren't equal to the racist connotations that would be like banning the cross because the KKK uses it against minorities, now that would be ridiculous wouldn't it?

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The Land of Truth
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Founded: Jun 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Land of Truth » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:28 am

Calisu wrote:
The Sotoan Union wrote:If I showed you a hammer and sickle would you think of farmers and workers, or would you think of Russia?

The swastika has racist connotations more than anything else, and its ignorant to say that its religious connotations are equal to its racist connotations.

Of course the religious connotations aren't equal to the racist connotations that would be like banning the cross because the KKK uses it against minorities, now that would be ridiculous wouldn't it?

Except most Americans don't recognize it as solely a symbol of the KKK. So there's no reason anyone would do that.
RP: We are the Principality of New Vasconia! (Occupied by the Kingdom of Austiana.)
Personal: I am a 17-year old theological noncognitivist and atheist from the southern United States. I am a social democrat and democratic socialist.
98% of all Internet users would cry if Facebook broke down. If you are part of that 2% who simply would sit back and laugh, copy and paste this into your sig. Don't tell me what to do!
Ec: -8.62; Soc: -5.44

Your argument is invalid.

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The Black Forrest
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Posts: 55597
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:28 am

Calisu wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
:D I would be happy to retract if you can show US history sporting it regularly.

Not how onus works and I could show 100 examples and you'd still claim it wasn't "regularly".


Source requests are for dubious claims. Such as it's never been used in the US except for the Nazi symbol.

Relatively unknown is valid. You will find instances such as the mentioned Apache belt but widely used let alone known? Not really.

It may change in time.....
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Eastern Equestria
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Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Eastern Equestria » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:44 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Eastern Equestria wrote:
The reason you don't have any problems is because this is clearly not the same thing as this.

By the way, I'm sure that idiot employee was evoking the ancient significance of that symbol when he drew a swastika in that customer's sandwich out of boredom. *facepalm*


It could also be the people in his area prepared the people for it.....


Prepared them for what? An interpretation of the swastika that only a blind fool could mistake for the symbol of National Socialism?

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:47 am

Eastern Equestria wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
It could also be the people in his area prepared the people for it.....


Prepared them for what? An interpretation of the swastika that only a blind fool could mistake for the symbol of National Socialism?


:roll:
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Calisu
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Founded: Aug 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Calisu » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:49 am


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Atelia
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Posts: 6001
Founded: Dec 07, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Atelia » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:49 am

The Land of Truth wrote:
Calisu wrote:Maybe the public at large should have a better education system as it's a fairly well known fact.

As I said, I'm going to keep linking this until you understand what it means.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Atelia wrote:Alright, so let's say nothing ought to be like any pre conceived notion or ideal, and that a sense of justice shouldn't be used simply because in truth how things work out is rather erratic, in that case why should we bother to argue the subject? There clearly is no reason for order and we are just slaves forced to carry the burden of the decisions of a tyranny by majority and because we don't abide by the decisions not determined in any way by something with our beliefs influence we should lose our jobs and gain an unfair association. So if that is the case then throw out any notion of argument or speaking out, because clearly the representatives of the peoples opinion can't be beat because they represent the opinion of the majority.

And yes I made a straw man big whoop, focus on the big picture.


What the fuck are you talking about? (Seriously, that just looks like a giant wall of ramble.)

Oh, look at that, you admit it. :clap:

It's not a wall of ramble at all, what I'm talking about is the idea that something is how it is and is right simply because society at large believes that to be the case, something that you clearly have propagated as your belief.
Orthodox Crusader, Proud Pontic Greek living in Moscow, Traditionalist, Eurasianist, ENTJ single man.

☩Defend Humanity, Rebel Against The Modern World☩

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

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Digital Planets
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Founded: Jul 27, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Digital Planets » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:50 am

What if the Swastika was actually supposed to look like a waffle? I mean, all you need to do is add a few more lines inside of it and boom, you have a waffle.
Last edited by Digital Planets on Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Except you Renae, you're an asshole." -Voltaire(sic)

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Eastern Equestria
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Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Eastern Equestria » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:51 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Eastern Equestria wrote:
Prepared them for what? An interpretation of the swastika that only a blind fool could mistake for the symbol of National Socialism?


:roll:


Emojis are for supplementing language, not replacing it. If yôu have something to say then say it.

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Tekania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21669
Founded: May 26, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tekania » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:52 am

Calisu wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Source requests are for dubious claims. Such as it's never been used in the US except for the Nazi symbol.

Relatively unknown is valid. You will find instances such as the mentioned Apache belt but widely used let alone known? Not really.

It may change in time.....

The Original Meaning

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.
Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II.


Yes, we understand original use and where it is used religiously.... granted. In the west, however, and especially in the US south, the symbol is used excessively by the KKK and other White Nationalist organizations. Unless you supply context to the use..... it can very easily convey an offense........ and drawing it in butter on a fast-food sandwich bun in North Carolina, does not convey any context.
Such heroic nonsense!

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Calisu
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Founded: Aug 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Calisu » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:54 am

Tekania wrote:
Yes, we understand original use and where it is used religiously.... granted. In the west, however, and especially in the US south, the symbol is used excessively by the KKK and other White Nationalist organizations. Unless you supply context to the use..... it can very easily convey an offense........ and drawing it in butter on a fast-food sandwich bun in North Carolina, does not convey any context.

Post wasn't meant for you move along. Also if the KKK using a symbol shows it's evil then the christian cross should be banned.

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Davinhia
Minister
 
Posts: 2024
Founded: Nov 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Davinhia » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:55 am

Wait, doesn't that person have the right for symbolism?
Year: 2013
- President: x (PP)
- Vice President: x (PP)
- House Majority Leader: x (IKP)
- Senate Majority Leader: x (PP)
Capital City: Grove Street
RP Population: 45 Million
RP Military Population: 37 Thousand
5, peacetime

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Atelia
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Founded: Dec 07, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Atelia » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:57 am

The Land of Truth wrote:
Calisu wrote:Of course the religious connotations aren't equal to the racist connotations that would be like banning the cross because the KKK uses it against minorities, now that would be ridiculous wouldn't it?

Except most Americans don't recognize it as solely a symbol of the KKK. So there's no reason anyone would do that.

And why should should the irrational system of what "people recognize" determine what is right and what is wrong? A person who chooses to only recognize a single interpretation of the symbol is the one who is truly being ignorant, a tyranny by majority decision should not be social law because it is ignorant, prone to propagating a single cultures standards as the right standards, and has no true justified reason to stand on.

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The Black Forrest
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:57 am

Eastern Equestria wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
:roll:


Emojis are for supplementing language, not replacing it. If yôu have something to say then say it.


Sometimes they are appropriate responses to comments.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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The Sotoan Union
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Posts: 7140
Founded: Nov 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sotoan Union » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:57 am

Calisu wrote:
Tekania wrote:
Yes, we understand original use and where it is used religiously.... granted. In the west, however, and especially in the US south, the symbol is used excessively by the KKK and other White Nationalist organizations. Unless you supply context to the use..... it can very easily convey an offense........ and drawing it in butter on a fast-food sandwich bun in North Carolina, does not convey any context.

Post wasn't meant for you move along. Also if the KKK using a symbol shows it's evil then the christian cross should be banned.

You are being ignorant of the symbol's meanings.

To most people the cross represents Christianity. To most people the swastika represents Nazis. That's why the Swastika is offensive and the cross isn't.
Last edited by The Sotoan Union on Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Great Kleomentia
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Founded: Aug 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Kleomentia » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:58 am

Ifreann wrote:
Great Kleomentia wrote:I just love how very well you attempt to back up your argument.

I refuse to back up my assertion that the Swastika is a Nazi symbol because that is so well known a fact that someone denying it can only be engaging in wilful ignorance of the very worst kind, and I have no interest in entertaining such nonsense.

It has been used by Nazi Germany, yes. That doesn't deny that it's main and original use was to promote peace and unity among pagan tribes.
Your acting fairly ignorant at this point. Since the Swastika and Kolovrat(double swastika) are part of Slavic culture, i would personally feel somewhat offended by someone calling it a Nazi symbol.

Welcome to the world after WWII. It's a Nazi symbol.

In no way a argument.
German culture has actually the least to do with the Swastika, hence the Swastika is a Nazi symbol last and a symbol of peace and unity first.

That's not really how symbols work. Cultures don't get to own them and have dibs on how they're interpreted.

It has nothing to do with dibs and everything to do with lack of education and ignorance. If someone killed everyone in a hospital and held the American flag while doing so, the American flag wouldn't be banned because it "represents hatred". You're trying to protect a concept that doesn't really hold water by using poor arguments and attempting to put yourself at higher ground, figuratively speaking.
Last edited by Great Kleomentia on Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
hue

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Atelia
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Founded: Dec 07, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Atelia » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:00 am

The Sotoan Union wrote:
Calisu wrote:Post wasn't meant for you move along. Also if the KKK using a symbol shows it's evil then the christian cross should be banned.

You are being ignorant of the symbol's meanings.

To most people the cross represents Christianity. To most people the swastika represents Nazis. That's why the Swastika is offensive and the cross isn't.

But how "most" people interpret something dosent matter, just because the majority is ignorant does not mean that the ignorance should be excused.
Orthodox Crusader, Proud Pontic Greek living in Moscow, Traditionalist, Eurasianist, ENTJ single man.

☩Defend Humanity, Rebel Against The Modern World☩

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

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Eastern Equestria
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Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Eastern Equestria » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:00 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Eastern Equestria wrote:
Emojis are for supplementing language, not replacing it. If yôu have something to say then say it.


Sometimes they are appropriate responses to comments.


So you have nothing of substance to say then? That's what I figured.

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Tekania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21669
Founded: May 26, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tekania » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:00 am

Calisu wrote:
Tekania wrote:
Yes, we understand original use and where it is used religiously.... granted. In the west, however, and especially in the US south, the symbol is used excessively by the KKK and other White Nationalist organizations. Unless you supply context to the use..... it can very easily convey an offense........ and drawing it in butter on a fast-food sandwich bun in North Carolina, does not convey any context.

Post wasn't meant for you move along. Also if the KKK using a symbol shows it's evil then the christian cross should be banned.


The KKK using the symbol shows that the symbol can be used in offense.... the cross can as well.... I've said as much. What I have NEVER FUCKING SAID, is that I had any interest in banning swastikas...... and as such have no interest in banning crosses either.
Such heroic nonsense!

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The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55597
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:00 am

Calisu wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Source requests are for dubious claims. Such as it's never been used in the US except for the Nazi symbol.

Relatively unknown is valid. You will find instances such as the mentioned Apache belt but widely used let alone known? Not really.

It may change in time.....

The Original Meaning

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.
Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II.


You realize you are agreeing with what I said. The symbols were used in areas that knew of them. The Native Americans of the South West. Which even the example of the 45th division said was an honor to them. Yet they dropped the symbol for WWII.

Show the symbol and people not used to seeing it and they will most likely do a double take and ask questions.....
Last edited by The Black Forrest on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55597
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:01 am

Eastern Equestria wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Sometimes they are appropriate responses to comments.


So you have nothing of substance to say then? That's what I figured.


If you had something of substance in your comments, then I would have offered more.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
The Sotoan Union
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7140
Founded: Nov 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sotoan Union » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:02 am

Atelia wrote:
The Sotoan Union wrote:You are being ignorant of the symbol's meanings.

To most people the cross represents Christianity. To most people the swastika represents Nazis. That's why the Swastika is offensive and the cross isn't.

But how "most" people interpret something dosent matter, just because the majority is ignorant does not mean that the ignorance should be excused.

It's not ignorant. In no way is it ignorant to say it is a symbol of racism. It is. If people think racism when they see it because an entire industrialized nation used it to symbolize their belief in racial superiority and mass genocide, then that is because of the impact of said nation on the world. Far more than the impact of any other culture that used the symbol.
Last edited by The Sotoan Union on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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