Should prisoners be traumatized?

[Ostroeuropa]

so no prisons then?

let the criminals do what they want?

I'm agreeing with you here. Prisons are needed and worse conditions deter more criminals

I used to be a criminal. It didn't deter me, sorry. What it does is make me and my colleagues more ruthless to ensure no evidence is left.
We might burn down the house after burgling it to destroy DNA.
Or stab the people in their bed to bury the evidence and ensure they don't see us and tattle.

It doesn't deter people based on "Oh teh scary policemans." it might deter them based on "I'm unwilling to shoot a guy for a pack of gum." but soon enough it normalizes, and once you see those killers getting away with it, oh well. I need my gum.

You clearly have no idea how criminals work. We don't plan on getting caught, and increasing the badness of prison just makes us more determined not to get caught. It has no effect on crime, and studies have shown you this time and time again.
All you are doing is making the world a shitter place. Don't vote please, you're clearly doing it wrong.

[Quilavaland]

Prisoners are still humans. I suggest you watch this video if you want to know how to actually deal with crime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaPBcUUqbew

[Imperializt Russia]

Why is this a question?
Why was this ever a question?

No.

[Great Kleomentia]

Yes!

Show the kids what happens to people who deal drugs, assault other people, and steal things. This should scare at least some people out of a life of crime.

Officially the worst decision maker on NSG.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

As we all know, America's idea of justice is to remind criminals that if they go to jail, the correctional officers will let other prisoners rape them. Some people think it might be an idea to make exceptions for criminals who are, well, 12, but that was immediately dismissed as a product of the criminal's cuteness merely because the person who proposed that happened to mention it.

GhamPlays: She was an adorable little girl poor thing shouldn't be crying like that. shes gonna be traumatized

Pierce Davis: The premises of the show is that they take juvinilles who are commiting crimes and show them what prison is like, and what will happen to them if they do not shape up. She isn't a, "poor adorale little girl", she is a teen who has commited a crime or felony and is being shown what happens to people if they don't shape up. She SHOULD be traumatized, as in this instance, the trauma could keep her out of jail. She was a thief and an abuser.

1. She isn't a teenager.

2. Isn't it possible that, rather than being the sole cause of people questioning the way prisons are run, this kid's cuteness was merely the catalyst that got the ball rolling on that in this context?

remind criminals that if they go to jail, the correctional officers will let other prisoners rape them.

I don't know where you got that impression.

EDIT: Seriously though, "Smoking Pot/Truancy/Promiscuity" wtf wat up with dat. It's like we're not even living in the 21st century.

[Bottle]

Why is this a question?
Why was this ever a question?

The Judeo-Christian religious tradition includes many examples of torture and/or violent retribution being considered "justice." Given the demographic skew of this forum, and the number of people who live in countries with strong Judeo-Christian traditions, it is unsurprising to see this question brought up.

[The Nihilistic view]

Be made aware of what Prison is like but not traumatized.

[The Orson Empire]

Why is this a question?
Why was this ever a question?

The Judeo-Christian religious tradition includes many examples of torture and/or violent retribution being considered "justice." Given the demographic skew of this forum, and the number of people who live in countries with strong Judeo-Christian traditions, it is unsurprising to see this question brought up.

In many of those nations, there is a separation of church and state, so that is not the problem.

[Bottle]

The Judeo-Christian religious tradition includes many examples of torture and/or violent retribution being considered "justice." Given the demographic skew of this forum, and the number of people who live in countries with strong Judeo-Christian traditions, it is unsurprising to see this question brought up.

In many of those nations, there is a separation of church and state, so that is not the problem.

I'm pretty sure culture has an impact on people's beliefs even in secular nations.

[The Orson Empire]

In many of those nations, there is a separation of church and state, so that is not the problem.

I'm pretty sure culture has an impact on people's beliefs even in secular nations.

Still, I don't see many people in these nations advocating for torture and genocide, unless you are talking about certain nations in the Middle East.

[Magna Libero]

No. Letting other people rape in prison against their consent is surely going to make this world look more like a h*ll.

[Bottle]

I'm pretty sure culture has an impact on people's beliefs even in secular nations.

Still, I don't see many people in these nations advocating for torture and genocide, unless you are talking about certain nations in the Middle East.

I see plenty of my fellow Americans enthusiastically arguing that prison rape is "what criminals deserve" and that prison conditions should be made as hellish as possible to both deter crime and punish offenders.

And I hear a great many of them openly using "an eye for an eye" as their stated justification.

[Terrordome]

No, deterrence is not as effective as rehabilitation and tackling the root causes of crime like poverty.

Remember a huge amount of prisoners are not rapists/murderers but thieves, addicts and dealers who are driven to crime by poverty and hopelessness. It's not politically convenient to take good care of cons but if you look at the Scandinavian prisons that focus on rehabilitation, drug rehab, and teaching employable skills, you see a much lower redactivism rate which reduces crime and makes us all safer.

Of course there are some hopeless cases like serial killers and paedophile rapist who can't be rehabilitated but you must remember these constitute a minority of those in the prison system.

At the moment all prisons are are a college for criminals that harden them, dehumanise them and make them far more likely to reoffend, which makes all of us less safe.

[The Orson Empire]

Still, I don't see many people in these nations advocating for torture and genocide, unless you are talking about certain nations in the Middle East.

I see plenty of my fellow Americans enthusiastically arguing that prison rape is "what criminals deserve" and that prison conditions should be made as hellish as possible to both deter crime and punish offenders.

And I hear a great many of them openly using "an eye for an eye" as their stated justification.

These people should be ashamed of themselves for advocating such horrific things, then. However, not everyone has these opinions.

[Bottle]

I see plenty of my fellow Americans enthusiastically arguing that prison rape is "what criminals deserve" and that prison conditions should be made as hellish as possible to both deter crime and punish offenders.

And I hear a great many of them openly using "an eye for an eye" as their stated justification.

These people should be ashamed of themselves for advocating such horrific things, then. However, not everyone has these opinions.

I don't believe I claimed everyone has these beliefs, nor that I agree with them. My point all along has been that the dominant religious tradition in the West uses retribution and justice interchangeably in many places, which makes it rather inevitable that this subject would come up.

[Toquasia]

d

I think prisoners who are in jail for a felony or really bad crime should be traumatized , but not by rape. Lots of prisoners kill themselves when they get out of prison because of being raped in prison . I think they should be tortured by electrocution

[Farnhamia]

d

I think prisoners who are in jail for a felony or really bad crime should be traumatized , but not by rape. Lots of prisoners kill themselves when they get out of prison because of being raped in prison . I think they should be tortured by electrocution

And I think you should watch the blood-thirsty posts. The fact that you've been here just a few weeks is the only thing saving you from a warning for trolling.

[Herrebrugh]

Punishment doesn't work in the long run, though. After all, recidivism rates in the United States are incredibly high.

Plus, our system screws over former prisoners, because they can't find a job afterwards. So, then they have to go on welfare or commit crimes to survive.

Which is usually the reason people commit crimes to begin with.

If you're sufficiently poor, the choice is between robbing the store or trying to survive on what you have. And, from what I've heard of stories of lower class American households, it is incredibly hard to feed your children even if both parents work. So you're in luck if you only have to feed yourself with your crappy job. Honestly, that's insane for a first world country.

In other cases, children who grow up in a poor climate grow up in a street-culture. This is true just as much for current black neighbourhoods in the US nowedays, as it is for (going a bit closer home for me) urban white (there really only where whites back then, except for some well-educated people from the Netherlands Indies) workers' neighbourhoods in Netherland. Back then, and with whites (because some people try to turn it into a racial issue) crime was rampant. And we really didn't have rehabilitation at all back then, so these people would stay in their normal climate.

Nowadays we do have rehabilitation, and we hardly have crime (not to say that's solely because of rehabilitation, it's also because of a generally well-functioning welfare-system so that the poor are fed, and don't need to commit crimes, besides which the country has been getting wealthier anyway, which helps too), the only crime we have is mainly based in neighbourhoods where many immigrants live. Surprise surprise, those are also the poorer people. So the exact thing that has been the case here in the late 19th century is still the case here now (it's just less of a problem), only people then said it was the fault of the stupid proletarians, and now it's the fault of lazy foreigners.

Times really haven't changed that much...

Note: this post was all simply an addition to your own post, I'm not claiming to be arguing against you, obviously (though, it may look as though that's the case, therefore this note).

[Sunarctica]

No they shouldn't, prisons also shouldn't be ran for a profit or by officers of the law for that matter either, they should be ran by sociologists, with a staff of psychologists and officers of the law collaborating.

My thoughts exactly, in my opinion, rehabilitation is way gentler and more successful than punishment

They should not be traumatized. That is cruel and unusual punishment.

Isn't trauma supposed to make a person MORE likely to commit crimes and generally make their life harder?

Traumatizing prisoners is just as evil as the main torture methods used in the Spanish Inquisition

[New Frenco Empire]

No, and most prisons usually don't seem to stand for it either. Cops aren't the evil dickbags we like to portray them as sometimes. They're just pushing the most extreme scenarios upon these kids for the cameras. It's just trashy television. I've actually seen that show once or twice, and almost every time, the epilogue always tells us that at least one of the kids usually end up doing worse after being exposed to such bullshit. Not even kidding. It went from like some kid going into that program for smoking pot and being truant, but then going on to commit armed robbery a month later. If the death penalty isn't a deterrent, this shit sure as hell isn't either.

[Katganistan]

As we all know, America's idea of justice is to remind criminals that if they go to jail, the correctional officers will let other prisoners rape them. Some people think it might be an idea to make exceptions for criminals who are, well, 12, but that was immediately dismissed as a product of the criminal's cuteness merely because the person who proposed that happened to mention it.

GhamPlays: She was an adorable little girl poor thing shouldn't be crying like that. shes gonna be traumatized

Pierce Davis: The premises of the show is that they take juvinilles who are commiting crimes and show them what prison is like, and what will happen to them if they do not shape up. She isn't a, "poor adorale little girl", she is a teen who has commited a crime or felony and is being shown what happens to people if they don't shape up. She SHOULD be traumatized, as in this instance, the trauma could keep her out of jail. She was a thief and an abuser.

1. She isn't a teenager.

2. Isn't it possible that, rather than being the sole cause of people questioning the way prisons are run, this kid's cuteness was merely the catalyst that got the ball rolling on that in this context?

You're seriously taking a television show's shock factor tv-rating grabbing stunts as "America's idea of justice"? Really?

[Magna Libero]

I think prisoners who are in jail for a felony or really bad crime should be traumatized , but not by rape. Lots of prisoners kill themselves when they get out of prison because of being raped in prison . I think they should be tortured by electrocution

And I think you should watch the blood-thirsty posts. The fact that you've been here just a few weeks is the only thing saving you from a warning for trolling.

I'm sorry, but how is this considered "trolling"? That's a harsh opinion and some people just feel like it, for some reason. This doesn't seem like the ideal place to discuss this, though.

[Farnhamia]

And I think you should watch the blood-thirsty posts. The fact that you've been here just a few weeks is the only thing saving you from a warning for trolling.

I'm sorry, but how is this considered "trolling"? That's a harsh opinion and some people just feel like it, for some reason. This doesn't seem like the ideal place to discuss this, though.

Advocating violence against real people, is how.

[Crimeville]

If it were done with psychiatric, vocational, educational, and social follow up afterwards, yes. Reform means teaching not to commit criminal behavior again. Else, no. I don't want these youth getting a disability check for PTSD due to 'scared straight'.

For forcible rape, murder one, mass murder, rape murder, armed robbery, drive by shootings, free-will torture, home invasion, free will mutilation, severe child/domestic/pet abuse; and the death penalty should on the table, irrespective of the offender's age after age eight.

The method? Sedation followed by shooting. The condemned can orally take pills to knock them out first.
Taiwan uses a variation of the above. Else, reform should replace punishment. Think community service camps for non-violent offenders, whereas more serious offenders would be sent to a more traditional prison. Hauling firewood, shoveling manure at the animal shelter, and growing food for homeless shelters are a few things that could be done by convicts. Also, this same system prevents people from losing jobs due to cheaper prison labor, too.

[Magna Libero]

I'm sorry, but how is this considered "trolling"? That's a harsh opinion and some people just feel like it, for some reason. This doesn't seem like the ideal place to discuss this, though.

Advocating violence against real people, is how.

I think it gets more on-topic if I ask if it's violent to imprison people? Some people would argue that violence is necessary in some cases. While it feels like a shocking opinion, isn't desiring prisoners to be traumatized a very violent and brutal position to take?