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Riots in St. Louis after Police kill Teen

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:13 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:2. that witness has been refuted by other witnesses. statement not credible

No he hasn't. At least two other witnesses have confirmed that Brown had surrendered when he was killed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 68278.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/witness-missou ... d=24920358
Last edited by Mavorpen on Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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4years
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Postby 4years » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:14 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:


1. Unimportant
2. that witness has been refuted by other witnesses. statement not credible
3. Crime apologizing
4. hardly refuted anything.


1. Entirely important, it destroys your entire setup.

2. Statement more credible that the officers.

3. We already know you are apologizing for a crime. Why do you have to repeat it?

4. Entirely refuted you post.
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Tarsonis Survivors
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Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:19 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:2. that witness has been refuted by other witnesses. statement not credible

No he hasn't. At least two other witnesses have confirmed that Brown had surrendered when he was killed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 68278.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/witness-missou ... d=24920358



well then, I sit corrected.

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:21 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:No he hasn't. At least two other witnesses have confirmed that Brown had surrendered when he was killed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 68278.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/witness-missou ... d=24920358



well then, I sit corrected.

From what's been said by witnesses, Brown at some point was running from the policeman, the policeman shot at Brown, Brown then stopped and turned around with his hands raised in surrender, and then was shot to death.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:25 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

well then, I sit corrected.

From what's been said by witnesses, Brown at some point was running from the policeman, the policeman shot at Brown, Brown then stopped and turned around with his hands raised in surrender, and then was shot to death.


35 feet from the car. As I said, I sit corrected.

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4years
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Postby 4years » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:27 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

well then, I sit corrected.

From what's been said by witnesses, Brown at some point was running from the policeman, the policeman shot at Brown, Brown then stopped and turned around with his hands raised in surrender, and then was shot to death.


And, from what's been said by the police chief, the policeman had no idea that Brown has a suspect in any crime whatsoever. Combined with the fact that the police department was already under fire for racism, the police have tried to suppress protests leading to the riots we have now, the police force is almost exclusively white in contradiction to Ferguson's population, and the specific policeman in question began his association with Brown by yelling f-- and practically attacking him according to eyewitnesses it's fairly clear what happened: racist officer decided to harass Brown and then gunned him down in cold blood for the 'crimes' of running away and surrendering.
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"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains. "
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"In place of bourgeois society with all of it's classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, one in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all" -Karl Marx
There is no such thing as rational self interest; pure reason leads to the greatest good for the greatest number.

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:30 pm

4years wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:From what's been said by witnesses, Brown at some point was running from the policeman, the policeman shot at Brown, Brown then stopped and turned around with his hands raised in surrender, and then was shot to death.


And, from what's been said by the police chief, the policeman had no idea that Brown has a suspect in any crime whatsoever. Combined with the fact that the police department was already under fire for racism, the police have tried to suppress protests leading to the riots we have now, the police force is almost exclusively white in contradiction to Ferguson's population, and the specific policeman in question began his association with Brown by yelling f-- and practically attacking him according to eyewitnesses it's fairly clear what happened: racist officer decided to harass Brown and then gunned him down in cold blood for the 'crimes' of running away and surrendering.

They've even harassed and arrested reporters while giving no reason.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5677001

It really should not be surprising at this point when we're skeptical of claims by the police there.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:35 pm

I'm beginning to see why no one admits they were wrong, cause fuckers keep kicking even thought they've won.

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:37 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I'm beginning to see why no one admits they were wrong, cause fuckers keep kicking even thought they've won.

...What are you even talking about?
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:38 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:I'm beginning to see why no one admits they were wrong, cause fuckers keep kicking even thought they've won.

...What are you even talking about?


i already conceded but for some reason, y'all felt the need to keep correcting me.

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Burleson
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Postby Burleson » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:39 pm

The killing was most likely caused by racism but an investigation should be done before we jump to conclusions. The riots definitely are not an appropriate response to this. Destroying your own neighborhood isn't going to fix anything or help anyone.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:45 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

well then, I sit corrected.

From what's been said by witnesses, Brown at some point was running from the policeman, the policeman shot at Brown, Brown then stopped and turned around with his hands raised in surrender, and then was shot to death.

and that would seem to me to be something that an autopsy can show--was mr brown shot at very close range, meaning that the cop might have some reason to have shot him the first time--or were all the shots done from enough distance that an unarmed man couldn't be a threat?
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Tyriece
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Postby Tyriece » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:04 pm

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Saruhan
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Postby Saruhan » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:38 pm

Image


Ah yes, the Gentle giant
Caninope wrote:The idea of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh reuniting is about as logical as the idea that Barack Obama will kill his wife, marry Ahmadinejad in a ceremony officiated by Mitt Romney during the 7th Inning Stretch of the Yankees-Red Sox game, and then the happy couple will then go challenge President Xi for the position of General Secretary of the CCP in a gladiatorial fight to the death involving roaches, slingshots, and hard candies.

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Yumyumsuppertime
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:14 pm

Saruhan wrote:

Ah yes, the Gentle giant


I don't recall anyone but his mother (who is expected to do so) referring to him as "gentle". The fact is that the police officer did not know that he was a suspect in that robbery, and may have shot him once as he was fleeing and another several times as he was attempting to surrender.

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Saruhan
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Postby Saruhan » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:20 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Saruhan wrote:

Ah yes, the Gentle giant


I don't recall anyone but his mother (who is expected to do so) referring to him as "gentle". The fact is that the police officer did not know that he was a suspect in that robbery, and may have shot him once as he was fleeing and another several times as he was attempting to surrender.

He may have, or he may have attacked him causing injury, as the police say. This points that it very well could have been the second case, as Brown could have believed he was being stopped for the robbery
Caninope wrote:The idea of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh reuniting is about as logical as the idea that Barack Obama will kill his wife, marry Ahmadinejad in a ceremony officiated by Mitt Romney during the 7th Inning Stretch of the Yankees-Red Sox game, and then the happy couple will then go challenge President Xi for the position of General Secretary of the CCP in a gladiatorial fight to the death involving roaches, slingshots, and hard candies.

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Organized States
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Postby Organized States » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:22 pm

So which witnesses are making conflicting statements?

I heard something along those lines.
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:28 pm

Organized States wrote:So which witnesses are making conflicting statements?

I heard something along those lines.

Making some conflicting statements shouldn't be surprising to anyone used to witness reports. Witnesses tend to not remember things exactly as they see them.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Condunum
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Postby Condunum » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:29 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:...What are you even talking about?


i already conceded but for some reason, y'all felt the need to keep correcting me.

I know it can hurt your pride to be wrong, but a few posts from completely different posters isn't exactly verbal battering.
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Shaggai
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Postby Shaggai » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:29 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:...What are you even talking about?


i already conceded but for some reason, y'all felt the need to keep correcting me.

There are other people who have argued against this, you know.
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Condunum
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Postby Condunum » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:32 pm

Saruhan wrote:
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
I don't recall anyone but his mother (who is expected to do so) referring to him as "gentle". The fact is that the police officer did not know that he was a suspect in that robbery, and may have shot him once as he was fleeing and another several times as he was attempting to surrender.

He may have, or he may have attacked him causing injury, as the police say. This points that it very well could have been the second case, as Brown could have believed he was being stopped for the robbery

Yeah, and what does that matter for?
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Saruhan
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Postby Saruhan » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:33 pm

Condunum wrote:
Saruhan wrote:He may have, or he may have attacked him causing injury, as the police say. This points that it very well could have been the second case, as Brown could have believed he was being stopped for the robbery

Yeah, and what does that matter for?

Given that the officer was in hospital for his injuries, use of force was justified.
Caninope wrote:The idea of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh reuniting is about as logical as the idea that Barack Obama will kill his wife, marry Ahmadinejad in a ceremony officiated by Mitt Romney during the 7th Inning Stretch of the Yankees-Red Sox game, and then the happy couple will then go challenge President Xi for the position of General Secretary of the CCP in a gladiatorial fight to the death involving roaches, slingshots, and hard candies.

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:33 pm

Saruhan wrote:
Condunum wrote:Yeah, and what does that matter for?

Given that the officer was in hospital for his injuries, use of force was justified.

How is using lethal force on a person who was fleeing and is now surrendering justified?
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Saruhan
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Postby Saruhan » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:36 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Saruhan wrote:Given that the officer was in hospital for his injuries, use of force was justified.

How is using lethal force on a person who was fleeing and is now surrendering justified?

What his friend said. Not proven.
Caninope wrote:The idea of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh reuniting is about as logical as the idea that Barack Obama will kill his wife, marry Ahmadinejad in a ceremony officiated by Mitt Romney during the 7th Inning Stretch of the Yankees-Red Sox game, and then the happy couple will then go challenge President Xi for the position of General Secretary of the CCP in a gladiatorial fight to the death involving roaches, slingshots, and hard candies.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:37 pm

Saruhan wrote:
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
I don't recall anyone but his mother (who is expected to do so) referring to him as "gentle". The fact is that the police officer did not know that he was a suspect in that robbery, and may have shot him once as he was fleeing and another several times as he was attempting to surrender.

He may have, or he may have attacked him causing injury, as the police say. This points that it very well could have been the second case, as Brown could have believed he was being stopped for the robbery


It has already been shown that Brown was not stopped as a suspect of that robbery.
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