Riots in St. Louis after Police kill Teen

[Mavorpen]

Cuz who needs taser's amirite? Just shoot him a hundred times.

If you read the article, the guy brandished a knife, refused to put it down when ordered to do so and basically committed suicide by cop.

Where does it say that? It says that someone called 911 claiming he had a knife and that the cops stated that he held a knife in a threatening fashion, but doesn't actually confirm that he did have a knife or threatened them with one.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Cuz who needs taser's amirite? Just shoot him a hundred times.

If you read the article, the guy brandished a knife, refused to put it down when ordered to do so and basically committed suicide by cop.

I read it and watched the video but didn't really see it. Either way, a taser would have worked fine in said situation, knife or no knife.

[Farnhamia]

If you read the article, the guy brandished a knife, refused to put it down when ordered to do so and basically committed suicide by cop.

Where does it say that? It says that someone called 911 claiming he had a knife and that the cops stated that he held a knife in a threatening fashion, but doesn't actually confirm that he did have a knife or threatened them with one.

Says so in this one. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/2 ... 94224.html

[Spirit of Hope]

If you read the article, the guy brandished a knife, refused to put it down when ordered to do so and basically committed suicide by cop.

Where does it say that? It says that someone called 911 claiming he had a knife and that the cops stated that he held a knife in a threatening fashion, but doesn't actually confirm that he did have a knife or threatened them with one.

Holding a knife in a threatening fashion seams to imply he was threatening someone with the knife.

The video doesn't give much detail, mostly because you can't make out much of what is being said, but he definitely was moving towards the cops and they knew he had a knife.

You can certainly hear the officers ordering him to get down on the ground which he doesn't do. This shooting at least looks to be mostly understandable.

If you read the article, the guy brandished a knife, refused to put it down when ordered to do so and basically committed suicide by cop.

I read it any watched the video but didn't really see it. Either way, a taser would have worked fine in said situation, knife or no knife.

To bad there are so many stories being circulated about cops misusing their tasers. I agree it would have been the beater choice but people are sacred of them and thus they get much more restricted.

[Mavorpen]

Where does it say that? It says that someone called 911 claiming he had a knife and that the cops stated that he held a knife in a threatening fashion, but doesn't actually confirm that he did have a knife or threatened them with one.

Says so in this one. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/2 ... 94224.html

Again, where? It states that the POLICE officially stated that he had a knife, but doesn't actually confirm it nor does the video released confirm it. It also says that "some people who saw the shooting described it as "suicide by cop," according to USA Today." I'm not necessarily saying it isn't true, but you're treating it as though the article is claiming that these things are actually true, when it really doesn't.

[Farnhamia]

Says so in this one. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/2 ... 94224.html

Again, where? It states that the POLICE officially stated that he had a knife, but doesn't actually confirm it nor does the video released confirm it. It also says that "some people who saw the shooting described it as "suicide by cop," according to USA Today." I'm not necessarily saying it isn't true, but you're treating it as though the article is claiming that these things are actually true, when it really doesn't.

Just providing some additional information on a post that was itself more than a little biased.

[Mavorpen]

The video doesn't give much detail, mostly because you can't make out much of what is being said, but he definitely was moving towards the cops and they knew he had a knife.

No, they say he had a knife. I haven't seen anything actually confirming that, and the video certainly doesn't help with that.

[Mavorpen]

Again, where? It states that the POLICE officially stated that he had a knife, but doesn't actually confirm it nor does the video released confirm it. It also says that "some people who saw the shooting described it as "suicide by cop," according to USA Today." I'm not necessarily saying it isn't true, but you're treating it as though the article is claiming that these things are actually true, when it really doesn't.

Just providing some additional information on a post that was itself more than a little biased.

Eh, it's additional information, but honestly it doesn't bring us any closer to understanding what really happened.

[Spirit of Hope]

The video doesn't give much detail, mostly because you can't make out much of what is being said, but he definitely was moving towards the cops and they knew he had a knife.

No, they say he had a knife. I haven't seen anything actually confirming that, and the video certainly doesn't help with that.

They say they have a 911 call where someone reports him having a knife. I think the police aren't going to fake that. Even if he didn't have knife but that call came in the police then thought he had a knife, was closing with them, and was refusing to comply. Not the best combination.

[Washington Resistance Army]

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I read it any watched the video but didn't really see it. Either way, a taser would have worked fine in said situation, knife or no knife.

To bad there are so many stories being circulated about cops misusing their tasers. I agree it would have been the beater choice but people are sacred of them and thus they get much more restricted.

There are far more stories about cops misusing their firearms when they aren't necessary. People are much more scared of guns than taser's, not sure why they aren't trained to use them more.

[Mavorpen]

No, they say he had a knife. I haven't seen anything actually confirming that, and the video certainly doesn't help with that.

They say they have a 911 call where someone reports him having a knife. I think the police aren't going to fake that. Even if he didn't have knife but that call came in the police then thought he had a knife, was closing with them, and was refusing to comply. Not the best combination.

Yes, but the police claims that he was actually approaching them while brandishing a knife in a threatening manner. If they just said "we believed he had a knife from the 911 call," I'd see your point. But they claimed more than that, and I don't see anything that actually confirms it right now.

[Blackledge]

>implying every officer in the United States is TASER certified.

Maybe they should spend a little less on MRAP, humvees and tacticool stuff to play soldier with, and a little more on training and equipping officers in non-lethal methods of dealing with suspects...

[Spirit of Hope]

They say they have a 911 call where someone reports him having a knife. I think the police aren't going to fake that. Even if he didn't have knife but that call came in the police then thought he had a knife, was closing with them, and was refusing to comply. Not the best combination.

Yes, but the police claims that he was actually approaching them while brandishing a knife in a threatening manner. If they just said "we believed he had a knife from the report," I'd see your point. But they claimed more than that, and I don't see anything that actually confirms it right now.

True, I'm just saying this shooting is looking/sounding justified, not that what they are saying necessarily is all above board. Most importantly at some point you either are just going to have to trust the police officers or not.

I would prefer it if they all had cameras on them and their vehicles though.

>implying every officer in the United States is TASER certified.

Maybe they should spend a little less on MRAP, humvees and tacticool stuff to play soldier with, and a little more on training and equipping officers in non-lethal methods of dealing with suspects...

The problem isn't money its politics. There are lots of horror stories about cops abusing tasers, and since people don't want to be tased they put up barriers to cops getting access to tasers.

[Mavorpen]

True, I'm just saying this shooting is looking/sounding justified, not that what they are saying necessarily is all above board. Most importantly at some point you either are just going to have to trust the police officers or not.

I'm not really disagreeing with you that it looks justified. It does look like a suicide by cop, which does make him holding a knife (though not in an overhand grip from what I can tell from the video) a bit more likely.

I would prefer it if they all had cameras on them and their vehicles though.

That would be ideal, yes.

[Spreewerke]

>implying every officer in the United States is TASER certified.

Maybe they should spend a little less on MRAP, humvees and tacticool stuff to play soldier with, and a little more on training and equipping officers in non-lethal methods of dealing with suspects...

Those MRAPs and HMMVWs are next-to-free since they're federal government surplus that has already been paid for by your tax dollars years ago. If you must truly know, I have had to invest ~$5,000.00 of my own money into my 700hrs. academy, and I have no idea how much the local departments and state itself has put into it beyond that.

We will be receiving plenty of less-lethal training, trust me. Not every cop is a military application reject, you know.

[The Serbian Empire]

>implying every officer in the United States is TASER certified.

If they can't be trusted with a TASER can they be trusted with a gun?

[Spirit of Hope]

>implying every officer in the United States is TASER certified.

If they can't be trusted with a TASER can they be trusted with a gun?

Because people put up arbitrary standards and requirements based on fear and not logic?

I know some police forces don't issue tasers to all their officers because of bad publicity, people focus on the time the cop uses the taser on an old lady and how cruel that is. They don't focus on the police officer taxing the young guy with a knife instead of shooting him.

Just look at this. Tasers are not a perfect solution to everything.

[United States of The One Percent]

>implying every officer in the United States is TASER certified.

If they can't be trusted with a TASER can they be trusted with a gun?

Apparently they can be trusted with APCs, grenade launchers, body armor and high powered ordinance...

[Sun Wukong]

>implying every officer in the United States is TASER certified.

If they can't be trusted with a TASER can they be trusted with a gun?

That's a bit of a non sequitur. They're different things. It's like asking "if they can't be trusted with piloting a river barge can they be trusted with piloting a plane?" Proficiency in one is no guarantee of competence in the other.

[The Serbian Empire]

If they can't be trusted with a TASER can they be trusted with a gun?

That's a bit of a non sequitur. They're different things. It's like asking "if they can't be trusted with piloting a river barge can they be trusted with piloting a plane?" Proficiency in one is no guarantee of competence in the other.

The problem is the gun is certainly far more lethal though.

[Sun Wukong]

That's a bit of a non sequitur. They're different things. It's like asking "if they can't be trusted with piloting a river barge can they be trusted with piloting a plane?" Proficiency in one is no guarantee of competence in the other.

The problem is the gun is certainly far more lethal though.

Yeah, but the reason people aren't taser certified isn't because they aren't trustworthy.

[Geilinor]

The problem is the gun is certainly far more lethal though.

Yeah, but the reason people aren't taser certified isn't because they aren't trustworthy.

Don't police officers need to go through some sort of certification to be armed with a gun? If they aren't trustworthy enough to taze, how can they be trusted with a more powerful weapon?

[Persica Prime]

The problem is the gun is certainly far more lethal though.

Yeah, but the reason people aren't taser certified isn't because they aren't trustworthy.

People, yes. Police recruited anytime in the last decade undergo some pretty invasive background checks (voluntarily) to screen out anyone who might be integrity-impaired. Try entering a recruiting cycle sometime iof for no better reason than to experience it for yourself; I found it pretty informative.

EDIT: In Oregon, at least. I can't really speak to other states. Maybe others could.

[Sun Wukong]

Yeah, but the reason people aren't taser certified isn't because they aren't trustworthy.

Don't police officers need to go through some sort of certification to be armed with a gun? If they aren't trustworthy enough to taze, how can they be trusted with a more powerful weapon?

...

I don't know how to state this more clearly: tasers are not guns. Just because you've been trained in on how to use a gun doesn't mean you automatically know how to use a taser.

You have to get special certification for that. It includes medical and recitative training in case the taser burns them or stops their heart. They don't just hand them off to officers and say "have at 'em!"

[Spreewerke]

Yeah, but the reason people aren't taser certified isn't because they aren't trustworthy.

Don't police officers need to go through some sort of certification to be armed with a gun? If they aren't trustworthy enough to taze, how can they be trusted with a more powerful weapon?

Yes. Police are typically required to carry a gun because it is the best response to a lethal threat. A TASER can be used for non-lethal threats (or lethal threats, too, all things considered), but so can the officer's bare hands, their OC spray, their feet, their baton....

When an individual is pointing a gun at you, you'd be glad you had your own gun. What other alternative would the officer have for defending themselves against an armed and life-threatening assailant multiple meters away? Shout louder? Run directly towards them so they're in OC range?

Officers carry a gun because there really isn't an alternative to it for lethal force self-defense. This is why all recruits in an academy must prove they are proficient with and qualify with a handgun and shotgun (and sometimes rifle). That handgun or shotgun can easily be the difference between a funeral and a funeral.

We are also required to be exposed to OC spray so we are certified for at least one less-lethal method of self-defense. TASER certification is optional, at least in the academy, although many -- but not all -- departments require or at least suggest TASER certification. Why is it not 100% mandatory? Because while it is a very effective less-lethal option, plenty of other less-lethal self-defense options exist and are readily available to the officer. In some very small departments, the price of the TASER itself may be a slight issue. For example, for me to obtain my TASER certifications, I have to provide three of my own cartridges at $40.00 per cartridge. Two for accuracy and correct usage training, and one to have deployed on me.