Your religious affiliation, or lack thereof, and why?

[Menassa]

According to the Jewish Bible Satan is just as much a servant of God as Gabriel or Michael.
http://outreachjudaism.org/who-is-satan/
Samael is a different angel entirely.
Ha-Satan means 'the Satan' 'the prosecutor'

Thanks for the info. Embarrassingly enough, I know not much about Judaism. I should do some further reading on it. Though I don't really think Judaism would be right for me.

You're welcome, Judaism doesn't have to be right for you, it is the Jewish belief that one does not need to be Jewish to be right with God.

[Great Kleomentia]

I understand very well that a baptized person doesn't automatically go to Heaven after death. However you claimed that baptized people are automatically given salvation. And there is no real difference from salvation and going to heaven. Since one who receives salvation is ridden of their sins, hence going to heaven.

I never once claimed a baptized person is automatically given salvation, although you are free to go back and read my posts on this thread and elsewhere and prove me wrong. But you won't be able to do that, since I never did what you claimed.

Sorry, i must have misunderstood.

[Bari]

I never once claimed a baptized person is automatically given salvation, although you are free to go back and read my posts on this thread and elsewhere and prove me wrong. But you won't be able to do that, since I never did what you claimed.

Sorry, i must have misunderstood.

It's fine.

[Ublia]

Very good. Now you say god is all omnipotent, yes? Now if god is thoroughly aware of all events and controls them and what not; why then does he allow people to be damned to hell or banned from heaven if he loves all his children by allowing them not to be baptized? And other 'sinful' acts and so on? I'm curious, seeing as that means one of several things, firstly that he's not as all powerful as you say. He's a giant sadomasochist is another option....or is there some over bible related clause I'm unaware of. So please explain.

He is aware of all possibilities, but he gives us the ability to freely exercise our wills as we want. There is, therefore, much pain and evil in the world because of us humans, not God. One cannot reasonably blame God for his fault.

There are, however, many interpretations. That is one of many. Another is that we must go through some pain to enjoy good, for example, a parent puts his child through some pain when the child is being vaccinated (the skin being pierced by the syringe), but the pain is done so that the child will be able to enjoy the benefit of a vaccination later on. So, there is pain now on Earth, so that we can enjoy a greater good later on in the hereafter.

However, God's plan and providence is intrinsically beyond the limited scope of human knowledge, so we cannot truly know.

I understand very well that a baptized person doesn't automatically go to Heaven after death. However you claimed that baptized people are automatically given salvation. And there is no real difference from salvation and going to heaven. Since one who receives salvation is ridden of their sins, hence going to heaven.

I never once claimed a baptized person is automatically given salvation, although you are free to go back and read my posts on this thread and elsewhere and prove me wrong. But you won't be able to do that, since I never did what you claimed.

Hmmm I must admit your view is a lot more enlightened then I've usually encountered. Most people I've had to argue with believe he knows and controls all and denies the whole 'freedom of choice' thing which is where their argument falls apart. Anywho needless to say I'm pleased. However I still reject the notion that as you say without baptism its impossible to achieve heaven, because being a lover of history it should be noted there are many different religions that have preceded Christianity and it is notable Christianity heavily borrowed from several older religions. For example the idea of a dying and rising god can be found in Greek and other Mythos. Not to mention they took the pagan holidays involving Sol Invictus and corrupted it into modern Christmas. And plus and no offence the fact the bulk of the bible has been edited so many times that in many ways its been 'corrupted' if you put it under the microscope and thus while god may exist and if he is a Christian god then that would mean that Christian doctrine has been corrupted and thus we cannot rely on the bible in its entirety. And again I would note it hardly seems fair that -going back to your baptism point- god denies salvation to good people who may not have been baptized for this one fact. As one they may be ignorant to such and so on. Don't you think?

[Nargodia]

Thanks for the info. Embarrassingly enough, I know not much about Judaism. I should do some further reading on it. Though I don't really think Judaism would be right for me.

You're welcome, Judaism doesn't have to be right for you, it is the Jewish belief that one does not need to be Jewish to be right with God.

That"s admirable. Do you happen to believe in Judaism, then?

[Menassa]

You're welcome, Judaism doesn't have to be right for you, it is the Jewish belief that one does not need to be Jewish to be right with God.

That"s admirable. Do you happen to believe in Judaism, then?

I do practice Judaism yes.

[Ublia]

Nice. I personally find Buddhism rather attractive. Although I'm not a vegetarian (I love meat)...mind if I ask some questions?

Heh, sure. Ask away, but it's not like I'm a professor of Buddhism or anything, so my answers will largely just be opinions.

Also, I'm not exactly a vegetarian either, but of course I object to actually killing or harming other living things.

No issue all religious belief is really opinion belief if you think about it.

And strange I thought that was a larger necessity/key tenant. Anywho one quick question on reincarnation (always fun) if we indeed undergo reincarnation when we die then does that mean our current conscious state is merely a lie? And will it cease to exist once we die and rejoin the 'original' conciseness of our prior reincarnations or simply cease existing in its entirety on to endure rebirth once more until we've achieved nirvana? Also regarding nirvana might I ask if we achieve nirvana what is the point of existence as upon doing so we've no more to accomplish? Or is it entirely possible to re-begin your cycle?

[Nargodia]

He is aware of all possibilities, but he gives us the ability to freely exercise our wills as we want. There is, therefore, much pain and evil in the world because of us humans, not God. One cannot reasonably blame God for his fault.

There are, however, many interpretations. That is one of many. Another is that we must go through some pain to enjoy good, for example, a parent puts his child through some pain when the child is being vaccinated (the skin being pierced by the syringe), but the pain is done so that the child will be able to enjoy the benefit of a vaccination later on. So, there is pain now on Earth, so that we can enjoy a greater good later on in the hereafter.

However, God's plan and providence is intrinsically beyond the limited scope of human knowledge, so we cannot truly know.



I never once claimed a baptized person is automatically given salvation, although you are free to go back and read my posts on this thread and elsewhere and prove me wrong. But you won't be able to do that, since I never did what you claimed.

Hmmm I must admit your view is a lot more enlightened then I've usually encountered. Most people I've had to argue with believe he knows and controls all and denies the whole 'freedom of choice' thing which is where their argument falls apart. Anywho needless to say I'm pleased. However I still reject the notion that as you say without baptism its impossible to achieve heaven, because being a lover of history it should be noted there are many different religions that have preceded Christianity and it is notable Christianity heavily borrowed from several older religions. For example the idea of a dying and rising god can be found in Greek and other Mythos. Not to mention they took the pagan holidays involving Sol Invictus and corrupted it into modern Christmas. And plus and no offence the fact the bulk of the bible has been edited so many times that in many ways its been 'corrupted' if you put it under the microscope and thus while god may exist and if he is a Christian god then that would mean that Christian doctrine has been corrupted and thus we cannot rely on the bible in its entirety. And again I would note it hardly seems fair that -going back to your baptism point- god denies salvation to good people who may not have been baptized for this one fact. As one they may be ignorant to such and so on. Don't you think?

I also recall Christmas being celebrated as Yule for ancient Northern Europeans, and I've also read that the name of a Sumerian god, Ishtar, was made into Easter, which was originally a day that celebrated the resurrection of Tammuz. The crucifixion of Jesus could also be compared to Odin being hung on Yggdrasil, the world tree. Christianity has quite a lot of originally pagan content... It's a pity many Christians don't notice it.

[Menassa]

Heh, sure. Ask away, but it's not like I'm a professor of Buddhism or anything, so my answers will largely just be opinions.

Also, I'm not exactly a vegetarian either, but of course I object to actually killing or harming other living things.

No issue all religious belief is really opinion belief if you think about it.

And strange I thought that was a larger necessity/key tenant. Anywho one quick question on reincarnation (always fun) if we indeed undergo reincarnation when we die then does that mean our current conscious state is merely a lie? And will it cease to exist once we die and rejoin the 'original' conciseness of our prior reincarnations or simply cease existing in its entirety on to endure rebirth once more until we've achieved nirvana? Also regarding nirvana might I ask if we achieve nirvana what is the point of existence as upon doing so we've no more to accomplish? Or is it entirely possible to re-begin your cycle?

http://www.aish.com/jl/l/a/48943926.html
That's not Buddhism but you mentioned the R word so meh.

[Ublia]

Hmmm I must admit your view is a lot more enlightened then I've usually encountered. Most people I've had to argue with believe he knows and controls all and denies the whole 'freedom of choice' thing which is where their argument falls apart. Anywho needless to say I'm pleased. However I still reject the notion that as you say without baptism its impossible to achieve heaven, because being a lover of history it should be noted there are many different religions that have preceded Christianity and it is notable Christianity heavily borrowed from several older religions. For example the idea of a dying and rising god can be found in Greek and other Mythos. Not to mention they took the pagan holidays involving Sol Invictus and corrupted it into modern Christmas. And plus and no offence the fact the bulk of the bible has been edited so many times that in many ways its been 'corrupted' if you put it under the microscope and thus while god may exist and if he is a Christian god then that would mean that Christian doctrine has been corrupted and thus we cannot rely on the bible in its entirety. And again I would note it hardly seems fair that -going back to your baptism point- god denies salvation to good people who may not have been baptized for this one fact. As one they may be ignorant to such and so on. Don't you think?

I also recall Christmas being celebrated as Yule for ancient Northern Europeans, and I've also read that the name of a Sumerian god, Ishtar, was made into Easter, which was originally a day that celebrated the resurrection of Tammuz. The crucifixion of Jesus could also be compared to Odin being hung on Yggdrasil, the world tree. Christianity has quite a lot of originally pagan content... It's a pity many Christians don't notice it.

Indeed. Hence my scepticism regarding the religion. If anything Zoroastrianism is a safer bet unchanged, one of the influencers of Judaism and Christendom, dualistic and very tolerant. But again while I enjoying flirting with such faiths all in all I feel that god bases everything on virtue, human action and so forth.

[Menassa]

I also recall Christmas being celebrated as Yule for ancient Northern Europeans, and I've also read that the name of a Sumerian god, Ishtar, was made into Easter, which was originally a day that celebrated the resurrection of Tammuz. The crucifixion of Jesus could also be compared to Odin being hung on Yggdrasil, the world tree. Christianity has quite a lot of originally pagan content... It's a pity many Christians don't notice it.

Indeed. Hence my scepticism regarding the religion. If anything Zoroastrianism is a safer bet unchanged, one of the influencers of Judaism and Christendom, dualistic and very tolerant. But again while I enjoying flirting with such faiths all in all I feel that god bases everything on virtue, human action and so forth.

Judaism is far from dualistic...as well I believe Zoroastrianism came after Judaism chronologically.

[Ublia]

No issue all religious belief is really opinion belief if you think about it.

And strange I thought that was a larger necessity/key tenant. Anywho one quick question on reincarnation (always fun) if we indeed undergo reincarnation when we die then does that mean our current conscious state is merely a lie? And will it cease to exist once we die and rejoin the 'original' conciseness of our prior reincarnations or simply cease existing in its entirety on to endure rebirth once more until we've achieved nirvana? Also regarding nirvana might I ask if we achieve nirvana what is the point of existence as upon doing so we've no more to accomplish? Or is it entirely possible to re-begin your cycle?

http://www.aish.com/jl/l/a/48943926.html
That's not Buddhism but you mentioned the R word so meh.

I honestly did not know that. Very intriguing (still deist though). Fun fact you ever hear that theory Zoroastrianism ever influenced Judaism? I've always wanted to ask a Jew about this.

[The New Sea Territory]

Indeed. Hence my scepticism regarding the religion. If anything Zoroastrianism is a safer bet unchanged, one of the influencers of Judaism and Christendom, dualistic and very tolerant. But again while I enjoying flirting with such faiths all in all I feel that god bases everything on virtue, human action and so forth.

Judaism is far from dualistic...as well I believe Zoroastrianism came after Judaism chronologically.

Judaism isn't dualistic?

[Menassa]

Judaism is far from dualistic...as well I believe Zoroastrianism came after Judaism chronologically.

Judaism isn't dualistic?

Isaiah 45:7

[Menassa]

http://www.aish.com/jl/l/a/48943926.html
That's not Buddhism but you mentioned the R word so meh.

I honestly did not know that. Very intriguing (still deist though). Fun fact you ever hear that theory Zoroastrianism ever influenced Judaism? I've always wanted to ask a Jew about this.

Indeed. Hence my scepticism regarding the religion. If anything Zoroastrianism is a safer bet unchanged, one of the influencers of Judaism and Christendom, dualistic and very tolerant. But again while I enjoying flirting with such faiths all in all I feel that god bases everything on virtue, human action and so forth.

Judaism is far from dualistic...as well I believe Zoroastrianism came after Judaism chronologically.

[Ublia]

Indeed. Hence my scepticism regarding the religion. If anything Zoroastrianism is a safer bet unchanged, one of the influencers of Judaism and Christendom, dualistic and very tolerant. But again while I enjoying flirting with such faiths all in all I feel that god bases everything on virtue, human action and so forth.

Judaism is far from dualistic...as well I believe Zoroastrianism came after Judaism chronologically.

Well that answers my last post...still I read Zoroastrianism happened in the 2nd Millenium BCE while Judaism happened in the first century BC though yes?

[Bari]

He is aware of all possibilities, but he gives us the ability to freely exercise our wills as we want. There is, therefore, much pain and evil in the world because of us humans, not God. One cannot reasonably blame God for his fault.

There are, however, many interpretations. That is one of many. Another is that we must go through some pain to enjoy good, for example, a parent puts his child through some pain when the child is being vaccinated (the skin being pierced by the syringe), but the pain is done so that the child will be able to enjoy the benefit of a vaccination later on. So, there is pain now on Earth, so that we can enjoy a greater good later on in the hereafter.

However, God's plan and providence is intrinsically beyond the limited scope of human knowledge, so we cannot truly know.



I never once claimed a baptized person is automatically given salvation, although you are free to go back and read my posts on this thread and elsewhere and prove me wrong. But you won't be able to do that, since I never did what you claimed.

Hmmm I must admit your view is a lot more enlightened then I've usually encountered. Most people I've had to argue with believe he knows and controls all and denies the whole 'freedom of choice' thing which is where their argument falls apart. Anywho needless to say I'm pleased. However I still reject the notion that as you say without baptism its impossible to achieve heaven, because being a lover of history it should be noted there are many different religions that have preceded Christianity and it is notable Christianity heavily borrowed from several older religions. For example the idea of a dying and rising god can be found in Greek and other Mythos. Not to mention they took the pagan holidays involving Sol Invictus and corrupted it into modern Christmas. And plus and no offence the fact the bulk of the bible has been edited so many times that in many ways its been 'corrupted' if you put it under the microscope and thus while god may exist and if he is a Christian god then that would mean that Christian doctrine has been corrupted and thus we cannot rely on the bible in its entirety. And again I would note it hardly seems fair that -going back to your baptism point- god denies salvation to good people who may not have been baptized for this one fact. As one they may be ignorant to such and so on. Don't you think?

You will receive faulty logic and reasoning from faulty denominations. However, the idea that there is no free will is another theory.

Simply because similarities can be found among several religions is no reason to dismiss them. However, I will say this of Christmas, Christmas is not purported to be the birthday of Jesus. It is date whereon we celebrate His Nativity. Originally, it was celebrated belatedly because Christians were suffering from persecution. They, therefore, celebrated the Nativity in line with a popular pagan holiday, that they could furtively celebrate the Nativity without being persecuted therefor. There was no corruption of anything in the process. They merely maintained the date as tradition.

As a Christian, I believe that the Holy Bible is infallible, and that the Word of God, whether revealed through the Holy Scripture or through the Church in tradition, is divinely revealed. I believe we can rely on the Holy Bible.

Treating of those who are ignorant of the Holy Gospels, there may be salvation for them. There are known as "ignorant natives." This term is not intended as an insult. There are different beliefs on what happens to the "fate of the unlearned." The Church teaches that a "virtuous pagan" or a "righteous gentile" may indeed go to Heaven if he long for God, according to his understanding, and does good acts in his temporal life.

[Menassa]

Judaism is far from dualistic...as well I believe Zoroastrianism came after Judaism chronologically.

Well that answers my last post...still I read Zoroastrianism happened in the 2nd Millenium BCE while Judaism happened in the first century BC though yes?

Well it depends on what you define as Judaism, you see Jew is a translation of the word 'Yahudi' which refers to the last grouping of tribes in the Kingdom of Judah. I believe the religion started technically with the Exodus from Egypt (or around said time period) if you don't believe the event occured. And not during the Babylonian exile.

[Nargodia]

That"s admirable. Do you happen to believe in Judaism, then?

I do practice Judaism yes.

Interesting, I don't think I've spoken to a Jew before. How come Old Testament law is not followed by many Jews of today? And aren't you supposed to exclude the "o" from the name of your god?

I also recall Christmas being celebrated as Yule for ancient Northern Europeans, and I've also read that the name of a Sumerian god, Ishtar, was made into Easter, which was originally a day that celebrated the resurrection of Tammuz. The crucifixion of Jesus could also be compared to Odin being hung on Yggdrasil, the world tree. Christianity has quite a lot of originally pagan content... It's a pity many Christians don't notice it.

Indeed. Hence my scepticism regarding the religion. If anything Zoroastrianism is a safer bet unchanged, one of the influencers of Judaism and Christendom, dualistic and very tolerant. But again while I enjoying flirting with such faiths all in all I feel that god bases everything on virtue, human action and so forth.

Zoroastrianism has been getting some of my attention recently. Among some, it can also be interpreted as a belief requiring submission and having some non-harmful people viewed as deviant and sinful, like with some who belong to the major world religions. Yes, it'd make one quite a sell out to worship their god as a being that views non-believers as worthy of punishment, regardless of their actions or character.

[Menassa]

I do practice Judaism yes.

Interesting, I don't think I've spoken to a Jew before. How come Old Testament law is not followed by many Jews of today? And aren't you supposed to exclude the "o" from the name of your god?

Well not many Jews are religious, it is to the religious that follow 'Old Testament Law' which we call the Torah and may be a lot different from what you may read in your NIV or KJV.

The third commandment says not to take the name of the Lord in vain, some Jews believe that by writing God they are taking it in vain. Some even go so far as to write L-rd instead of Lord when referencing the Almighty.

I believe however it only applies to the hebrew names of God... but that's just me.

[Rhodevus]

I do practice Judaism yes.

Interesting, I don't think I've spoken to a Jew before. How come Old Testament law is not followed by many Jews of today? And aren't you supposed to exclude the "o" from the name of your god?

well, in my opinion (as a Jew, yet not overly religious one)
writing the word god and writing about G-D are two separate things entirely. It can be seen by the way I wrote them out here. When referencing G-D, I dash the o, but god does not need to be capitalized or anything.

[Bari]

Judaism is far from dualistic...as well I believe Zoroastrianism came after Judaism chronologically.

Well that answers my last post...still I read Zoroastrianism happened in the 2nd Millenium BCE while Judaism happened in the first century BC though yes?

Judaism is older than Zoroastrianism. In 950 BC, the Torah was given by God to Moses. In 440 BC, Zoroastrianism entered recorded history. However, Abraham was born around 2000 BC, and the Biblical Exodus is said to have happened around 1250 BC.

[Kelinfort]

Atheist until proven otherwise. Besides, what deity would care that we believe solely in itself? Wouldn't it be a benevolent deity's will that we serve and love our fellow man?

If said man was created in image of said deity, probably.

Presumably a malevolent deity would like us to harm each other

[Menassa]

Well that answers my last post...still I read Zoroastrianism happened in the 2nd Millenium BCE while Judaism happened in the first century BC though yes?

Judaism is older than Zoroastrianism. In 950 BC, the Torah was given by God to Moses. In 440 BC, Zoroastrianism entered recorded history. However, Abraham was born around 2000 BC, and the Biblical Exodus is said to have happened around 1250 BC.

I believe the revelation at Sinai happened around 1300 B.C.E.

[Suicune]

Atheist. Haven't seen any evidence for anything. Guess I just don't have the faith.