SWB: Shopping While Black

[Condunum]

Now this is a stretch if I ever saw one. For one, the only report of him going for the gun after going down comes from the Ritchie's, commenting after the event. Regardless, that doesn't matter. What matters is that the cops with feather fingers shot him before they'd assessed the situation. Had they done so, they would have just detained him at the most.

The only argument you've managed to give for the majority of this thread was "The report came from the Ritchie's. Therefore it doesn't matter."

That's not really a solid argument. All you're saying is that an eyewitness's report is null and void because they were the ones who called the cops in the first place.

I'm saying that their testimony is shaky because other shoppers didn't produce the same story, that's all.

[Maurepas]

I think I probably would have tried a taser first.

Have you ever been in the situation the requires you to think about it? Most likely you would have done what the police did and go with their training.

That sounds like they're being trained improperly then.

[Infected Mushroom]

I think I probably would have tried a taser first.

Tazers are certainly less lethal than shooting with a gun. I wonder if this police department refused to adopt the less lethal options.

when in a movie or a footage have you EVER seen the police saying ''DROP YOUR WEAPONS!'' with Tasers aimed at the suspect rather than with aimed firearms?

When you hear about a suspect with a gun, the protocol is to go in there with a gun yourself.

[The Serbian Empire]

The only argument you've managed to give for the majority of this thread was "The report came from the Ritchie's. Therefore it doesn't matter."

That's not really a solid argument. All you're saying is that an eyewitness's report is null and void because they were the ones who called the cops in the first place.

I'm saying that their testimony is shaky because other shoppers didn't produce the same story, that's all.

It's probably shakier than a Parkinson's patient.

[Wisconsin9]

I think I probably would have tried a taser first.

if you hit him with a taser the gun could suddenly go off, endangering others.

Also, if he was facing the officers while waving the gun around, they might not have the time to pull out a taser before they were shot. I'm assuming they entered with their guns out already since they got a call about a suspect armed with a firearm.

One cop goes for a taser, the other keeps his gun leveled at the guy. If he makes an aggressive move while drawing the taser, the second cop shoots. If he doesn't make an aggressive move, night-night.

[The Sotoan Union]

Have you ever been in the situation the requires you to think about it? Most likely you would have done what the police did and go with their training.

That sounds like they're being trained improperly then.

Hey that guys pointing some sort of gun at you! Quick ask him if it's real!

[Earth in Roughly 1000 Years]

Illustrating the point that not all people will admit they feel threatened is completely valid. You're the one who hasn't provided a single good argument in the thread and instead resorted to one word responses.

Rape victims don't speak up out of societal pressure.

Rape victims don't speak up or a lot of reasons, same with people who feel threatened.

I know, I am one.

Yeah you can speak for all people that have been raped because you have. Now that is a pathetic argument.

People who "feel threatened" by someone in a wal-mart report that to the police, because the police ask and they respond honestly.

Same with rape victims in theory. But how can you speak as an expert, have you been threatened in wal-mart?

You know why? Because there isn't an overbearing societal pressure to stay silent about what happened because it's your fault in the eyes of many. So, again. Not related.

That doesn't mean they wont feel ashamed or judged if they admit it. Just because people didn't admit to feeling threatened doesn't mean they weren't.

[The Serbian Empire]

Tazers are certainly less lethal than shooting with a gun. I wonder if this police department refused to adopt the less lethal options.

when in a movie or a footage have you EVER seen the police saying ''DROP YOUR WEAPONS!'' with Tasers aimed at the suspect rather than with aimed firearms?

When you hear about a suspect with a gun, the protocol is to go in there with a gun yourself.

Just pointing the gun is often enough. It still doesn't mean you need to kill the guy.

[Wisconsin9]

That sounds like they're being trained improperly then.

Hey that guys pointing some sort of gun at you! Quick ask him if it's real!

The proper training in this case involves attempting non-lethal means first.

Of course, the orange cap on the tip of the barrel is there for a reason. That reason is keeping people from thinking it's an actual gun.

[The Remnants of Kobol]

White guy pops off a round from his open carry on accident while strolling Walmart. Police not even called.

Black guy picks up a toy gun while strolling Walmart. Police shoot him.

[Infected Mushroom]

if you hit him with a taser the gun could suddenly go off, endangering others.

Also, if he was facing the officers while waving the gun around, they might not have the time to pull out a taser before they were shot. I'm assuming they entered with their guns out already since they got a call about a suspect armed with a firearm.

One cop goes for a taser, the other keeps his gun leveled at the guy. If he makes an aggressive move while drawing the taser, the second cop shoots. If he doesn't make an aggressive move, night-night.

and if the only cop with the gun aimed misses (while the suspect went for an ''aggressive move'' while the second cop drew his taser)?

then both police officers might die assuming it was a real gun

[Infected Mushroom]

when in a movie or a footage have you EVER seen the police saying ''DROP YOUR WEAPONS!'' with Tasers aimed at the suspect rather than with aimed firearms?

When you hear about a suspect with a gun, the protocol is to go in there with a gun yourself.

Just pointing the gun is often enough. It still doesn't mean you need to kill the guy.

he didn't drop his weapon. Also, he was already waving it around in a perceived threatening manner.

[Earth in Roughly 1000 Years]

White guy pops off a round from his open carry on accident while strolling Walmart. Police not even called.

Black guy picks up a toy gun while strolling Walmart. Police shoot him.

I'm not accusing you of lying but can you please provide a source.

[Wisconsin9]

One cop goes for a taser, the other keeps his gun leveled at the guy. If he makes an aggressive move while drawing the taser, the second cop shoots. If he doesn't make an aggressive move, night-night.

and if the only cop with the gun aimed misses (while the suspect went for an ''aggressive move'' while the second cop drew his taser)?

then both police officers might die assuming it was a real gun

I believe cops are trained to fire multiple shots. Not guaranteed to hit, but probably more likely.

[Polkopia]

The only argument you've managed to give for the majority of this thread was "The report came from the Ritchie's. Therefore it doesn't matter."

That's not really a solid argument. All you're saying is that an eyewitness's report is null and void because they were the ones who called the cops in the first place.

I'm saying that their testimony is shaky because other shoppers didn't produce the same story, that's all.

Ronald Ritchie is an ex-marine. My guess that he wasn't making this up. In most cases, those who have served in the armed forces know when to be threatened.

Edit: Le Source

[The Serbian Empire]

One cop goes for a taser, the other keeps his gun leveled at the guy. If he makes an aggressive move while drawing the taser, the second cop shoots. If he doesn't make an aggressive move, night-night.

and if the only cop with the gun aimed misses (while the suspect went for an ''aggressive move'' while the second cop drew his taser)?

then both police officers might die assuming it was a real gun

What's the odds of someone painting an orange tip on a real gun and making it the right shade of orange?

[Maurepas]

That sounds like they're being trained improperly then.

Hey that guys pointing some sort of gun at you! Quick ask him if it's real!

You shouldn't really have to ask is the trick, if you have to ask you're probably not trained well enough.

[Infected Mushroom]

and if the only cop with the gun aimed misses (while the suspect went for an ''aggressive move'' while the second cop drew his taser)?

then both police officers might die assuming it was a real gun

What's the odds of someone painting an orange tip on a real gun and making it the right shade of orange?

how should i know?

[The Sotoan Union]

Hey that guys pointing some sort of gun at you! Quick ask him if it's real!

The proper training in this case involves attempting non-lethal means first.

Of course, the orange cap on the tip of the barrel is there for a reason. That reason is keeping people from thinking it's an actual gun.

The proper training is to demand that the man put the gun down. I doubt the police didn't ask that.

[Condunum]

Rape victims don't speak up out of societal pressure.

Rape victims don't speak up or a lot of reasons, same with people who feel threatened.

Right, and those reasons aren't the same as the supposed reasons the customers wouldn't have spoken up which you have not explained.

I know, I am one.

Yeah you can speak for all people that have been raped because you have. Now that is a pathetic argument.

I'm not the topic.

People who "feel threatened" by someone in a wal-mart report that to the police, because the police ask and they respond honestly.

Same with rape victims in theory. But how can you speak as an expert, have you been threatened in wal-mart?

I've been in police situations, I can at least testify that the adrenaline rush you get from being a witness to a police incident isn't nearly enough to traumatize you into silence.

You know why? Because there isn't an overbearing societal pressure to stay silent about what happened because it's your fault in the eyes of many. So, again. Not related.

That doesn't mean they wont feel ashamed or judged if they admit it. Just because people didn't admit to feeling threatened doesn't mean they weren't.

They won't feel that way, because they won't be judged. I don't see where you get the idea they will be.

[The Sotoan Union]

Hey that guys pointing some sort of gun at you! Quick ask him if it's real!

You shouldn't really have to ask is the trick, if you have to ask you're probably not trained well enough.

Police will demand that you put the gun down. That's what they are trained for. They won't react unless you refuse to comply. I doubt the police didn't ask, but we may not have enough information at this time.

[Mavorpen]

Interestingly, Family Guy illustrated this problem perfectly.

[The Serbian Empire]

What's the odds of someone painting an orange tip on a real gun and making it the right shade of orange?

how should i know?

The odds of a real gun looking like a fake are so small that it hasn't happened. But people have painted airsoft guns all black to resemble real guns.

[Mavorpen]

I'm saying that their testimony is shaky because other shoppers didn't produce the same story, that's all.

Ronald Ritchie is an ex-marine. My guess that he wasn't making this up. In most cases, those who have served in the armed forces know when to be threatened.

Edit: Le Source

The fact that he's an ex-marine and cannot tell the difference between a toy gun and a real gun only DECREASES his credibility, rather than increasing it.

[Wisconsin9]

The proper training in this case involves attempting non-lethal means first.

Of course, the orange cap on the tip of the barrel is there for a reason. That reason is keeping people from thinking it's an actual gun.

The proper training is to demand that the man put the gun down. I doubt the police didn't ask that.

I believe the article says that they did and he refused. Still doesn't justify shooting him.