Islamic State Crisis Megathread (ISIS/ISIL/IS)

[Migas999]

Well, apparently Turkey now publicly supports the Syrian Opposition.

Turkey should be more concerned about defeating ISIS, instead of taking down Assad´s regime

[Laanvia]

Well, apparently Turkey now publicly supports the Syrian Opposition.

I'm not too fond of Turkey and all, but now I've swayed over to their way.

[Novus America]

Well, apparently Turkey now publicly supports the Syrian Opposition.

Turkey should be more concerned about defeating ISIS, instead of taking down Assad´s regime

Yes, but I posted a source early, and there are others, that Erdogan is helping ISIS under the table.

[Migas999]

Turkey should be more concerned about defeating ISIS, instead of taking down Assad´s regime

Yes, but I posted a source early, and there are others, that Erdogan is helping ISIS under the table.

And Erdogan is from Turkey?

[Novus America]

Right, but they don't implement full Sharia Law. The FSA should certainly not win the Syrian Civil War, if only for the sake of stability, but they are most definitely not as bad as, say, Al-Nusra, or, even more certainly, ISIS.

The FSA is remarkable in that it is the only faction of the Syrian Civil War other than the Syrian Government to have secular troops.

I would never say they are as bad as IS, though they aren't far from Al-Nusra to be honest...
Sure they have secular troops, but we should not forget that the FSA is nothing but a collective of hundres of militia's with their own ideas about things. If they would manage to win against the government and IS (which would be a miracle) they would start to fight amongst themselves, and i doubt the secular ones would win that fight...

Exactly. And exactly what happened in Libya.

[Novus America]

Yes, but I posted a source early, and there are others, that Erdogan is helping ISIS under the table.

And Erdogan is from Turkey?

He is their authoritarian Putinesque ruler.

And he clearly cannot be trusted. What Turkey should do and what he will do are often very different.

[Migas999]

And Erdogan is from Turkey?

He is their authoritarian Putinesque ruler.

OK

[Migas999]

Well, apparently Turkey now publicly supports the Syrian Opposition.

I'm not too fond of Turkey and all, but now I've swayed over to their way.

Even if Turkey is also helping ISIS under the table?

[Novus America]

I'm not too fond of Turkey and all, but now I've swayed over to their way.

Even if Turkey is also helping ISIS under the table?

See also,
http://www.businessinsider.com/turkey-p ... sis-2015-5

Turkey seems to be playing a very dangerous double game.

[Rio Cana]

Seems the Iraqi military command could be full of incompetent leaders or politicians. US secretary of Defense, really blasted them for not holding that important city. Seems they had double the troops of the enemy but decided to pull out. They even mentioned what an Iraqi soldier said. He said that they pulled out of that city because they were ordered too. That same soldier the news report said wanted to leave the military and join a militia since they were getting things done.

It seems the only answer is to divide that nation. Has for Syria, you could also divided them. Seems the French might have had it right in 1922 until they decided to change things.

[Migas999]

Seems the Iraqi military command could be full of incompetent leaders or politicians. US secretary of Defense, really blasted them for not holding that important city. Seems they had double the troops of the enemy but decided to pull out. They even mentioned what an Iraqi soldier said. He said that they pulled out of that city because they were ordered too. That same soldier the news report said wanted to leave the military and join a militia since they were getting things done.

It seems the only answer is to divide that nation. Has for Syria, you could also divided them. Seems the French might have had it right in 1922 until they decided to change things.

(Image)

No no no Iraq outnumbered ISIS 10 to 1
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /27803095/

[Migas999]

Seems the Iraqi military command could be full of incompetent leaders or politicians. US secretary of Defense, really blasted them for not holding that important city. Seems they had double the troops of the enemy but decided to pull out. They even mentioned what an Iraqi soldier said. He said that they pulled out of that city because they were ordered too. That same soldier the news report said wanted to leave the military and join a militia since they were getting things done.

It seems the only answer is to divide that nation. Has for Syria, you could also divided them. Seems the French might have had it right in 1922 until they decided to change things.

(Image)

In that division the Kurds should be given independence

[Dain II Ironfoot]

I would never say they are as bad as IS, though they aren't far from Al-Nusra to be honest...
Sure they have secular troops, but we should not forget that the FSA is nothing but a collective of hundres of militia's with their own ideas about things. If they would manage to win against the government and IS (which would be a miracle) they would start to fight amongst themselves, and i doubt the secular ones would win that fight...

The FSA is made up of eight militias, not hundreds, and out of those I could only find evidence of three at most and two at least having a stated ideology of Islamism. Also, the largest Militia in the FSA, the Southern Front, is also the most completely secular one. Chances are, most of the Islamist FSA troops have already defected to ISIS. I doubt there's much Islamism left in them now. Though I agree that if they did win, stability would take a big hit, and Non-FSA Islamist Groups would take over in a coup or revolution.

The Southern Front alone is composed out of 58 militia's, that's already a bit more then 8.
Then there's the Syria Revolutionaries Front, which is an Alliance of at least 14 militia's, probablyeven more. Dawn of Freedom Brigades also consists out of multiple militia's.
Hundreds would perhaps be somewhat overreacted (counting the FSA solely without any affiliated militia's), though i'm pretty convinced that the FSA alone would pass the 100 militia's total.

[New Jordslag]

Seems the Iraqi military command could be full of incompetent leaders or politicians. US secretary of Defense, really blasted them for not holding that important city. Seems they had double the troops of the enemy but decided to pull out. They even mentioned what an Iraqi soldier said. He said that they pulled out of that city because they were ordered too. That same soldier the news report said wanted to leave the military and join a militia since they were getting things done.

It seems the only answer is to divide that nation. Has for Syria, you could also divided them. Seems the French might have had it right in 1922 until they decided to change things.

(Image)

No no no Iraq outnumbered ISIS 10 to 1
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /27803095/

Yeah, and there was also a Sandstorm at the time of the attack on the Iraqi Military. Air Support was incapable of coming and the Iraqi troops were caught by surprise. By the time it subsided, the ISIS fighters had gained such an operational momentum that they could not be turned back.

Numbers aren't everything.

[New Jordslag]

The FSA is made up of eight militias, not hundreds, and out of those I could only find evidence of three at most and two at least having a stated ideology of Islamism. Also, the largest Militia in the FSA, the Southern Front, is also the most completely secular one. Chances are, most of the Islamist FSA troops have already defected to ISIS. I doubt there's much Islamism left in them now. Though I agree that if they did win, stability would take a big hit, and Non-FSA Islamist Groups would take over in a coup or revolution.

The Southern Front alone is composed out of 58 militia's, that's already a bit more then 8.
Then there's the Syria Revolutionaries Front, which is an Alliance of at least 14 militia's, probablyeven more. Dawn of Freedom Brigades also consists out of multiple militia's.
Hundreds would perhaps be somewhat overreacted (counting the FSA solely without any affiliated militia's), though i'm pretty convinced that the FSA alone would pass the 100 militia's total.

Ah, you mean the sub-groups. Yeah, that's a fair point.

[Migas999]

No no no Iraq outnumbered ISIS 10 to 1
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /27803095/

Yeah, and there was also a Sandstorm at the time of the attack on the Iraqi Military. Air Support was incapable of coming and the Iraqi troops were caught by surprise. By the time it subsided, the ISIS fighters had gained such an operational momentum that they could not be turned back.

Numbers aren't everything.

No but the fact that they couldn´t hold the city with a 10 to 1 advantage is a little bit bad it just shows how unprepared the Iraqi Army is

[Dain II Ironfoot]

I would never say they are as bad as IS, though they aren't far from Al-Nusra to be honest...
Sure they have secular troops, but we should not forget that the FSA is nothing but a collective of hundres of militia's with their own ideas about things. If they would manage to win against the government and IS (which would be a miracle) they would start to fight amongst themselves, and i doubt the secular ones would win that fight...

Exactly. And exactly what happened in Libya.

Pretty much yeah.

Seems the Iraqi military command could be full of incompetent leaders or politicians. US secretary of Defense, really blasted them for not holding that important city. Seems they had double the troops of the enemy but decided to pull out. They even mentioned what an Iraqi soldier said. He said that they pulled out of that city because they were ordered too. That same soldier the news report said wanted to leave the military and join a militia since they were getting things done.

It seems the only answer is to divide that nation. Has for Syria, you could also divided them. Seems the French might have had it right in 1922 until they decided to change things.

(Image)

Its widely known that the commanders are the problem in Iraq. The troops are very motivated, even at the beginning, but a simple soldiers doesn't know what to do when his commander runs, and so they also run. If only Iraq had some proper commanders then this wouldn't be such an issue all together and Iraq could have beaten back IS already... I sadly have to agree with the soldier, the militia's are doing a much more effective job then the army.

As for splitting it up, i'm not very fond on that plan. Those new nations would never be able to function properly as they would become puppet states of the regional powers like Turkey, Saudi-Arabia, Iran and probably Israel. Aside from that it would likely only cause more issues, more wars, more shit we don't want. On that all though, if the people living there would want it, then sure, but as for now i haven't heard them supporting something like that.
I'd rather see Syria and Iraq federalized, giving all those ethnicities & Religions more choices of their own while staying part of a nation that can act in its own interests.

[New Jordslag]

Yes, but I posted a source early, and there are others, that Erdogan is helping ISIS under the table.

And Erdogan is from Turkey?

Erdogan is the leader of Turkey.

[New Jordslag]

Yeah, and there was also a Sandstorm at the time of the attack on the Iraqi Military. Air Support was incapable of coming and the Iraqi troops were caught by surprise. By the time it subsided, the ISIS fighters had gained such an operational momentum that they could not be turned back.

Numbers aren't everything.

No but the fact that they couldn´t hold the city with a 10 to 1 advantage is a little bit bad it just shows how unprepared the Iraqi Army is

A 10-1 advantage means absolutely nothing when you have the strategic disadvantage. The Iraqi Troops had no Air Support and were caught by surprise. Numbers simply don't help in that scenario.

[New Jordslag]

Exactly. And exactly what happened in Libya.

Pretty much yeah.

Seems the Iraqi military command could be full of incompetent leaders or politicians. US secretary of Defense, really blasted them for not holding that important city. Seems they had double the troops of the enemy but decided to pull out. They even mentioned what an Iraqi soldier said. He said that they pulled out of that city because they were ordered too. That same soldier the news report said wanted to leave the military and join a militia since they were getting things done.

It seems the only answer is to divide that nation. Has for Syria, you could also divided them. Seems the French might have had it right in 1922 until they decided to change things.

(Image)

Its widely known that the commanders are the problem in Iraq. The troops are very motivated, even at the beginning, but a simple soldiers doesn't know what to do when his commander runs, and so they also run. If only Iraq had some proper commanders then this wouldn't be such an issue all together and Iraq could have beaten back IS already... I sadly have to agree with the soldier, the militia's are doing a much more effective job then the army.

As for splitting it up, i'm not very fond on that plan. Those new nations would never be able to function properly as they would become puppet states of the regional powers like Turkey, Saudi-Arabia, Iran and probably Israel. Aside from that it would likely only cause more issues, more wars, more shit we don't want. On that all though, if the people living there would want it, then sure, but as for now i haven't heard them supporting something like that.
I'd rather see Syria and Iraq federalized, giving all those ethnicities & Religions more choices of their own while staying part of a nation that can act in its own interests.

If anybody needs more rights, it would be the Turkomen. They've been the victims of Arabification and Kurdification. It is quite amazing that they still exist.

[Migas999]

No but the fact that they couldn´t hold the city with a 10 to 1 advantage is a little bit bad it just shows how unprepared the Iraqi Army is

A 10-1 advantage means absolutely nothing when you have the strategic disadvantage. The Iraqi Troops had no Air Support and were caught by surprise. Numbers simply don't help in that scenario.

Look at the Kurds despite having far less western air support they have managed to beat back ISIS sometimes even when outnumbered, What happened in Ramadi was purely and simply bad performance on the Iraqi Army part
The Kurds have far less support yet they fare far better

[Novus America]

Exactly. And exactly what happened in Libya.

Pretty much yeah.

Seems the Iraqi military command could be full of incompetent leaders or politicians. US secretary of Defense, really blasted them for not holding that important city. Seems they had double the troops of the enemy but decided to pull out. They even mentioned what an Iraqi soldier said. He said that they pulled out of that city because they were ordered too. That same soldier the news report said wanted to leave the military and join a militia since they were getting things done.

It seems the only answer is to divide that nation. Has for Syria, you could also divided them. Seems the French might have had it right in 1922 until they decided to change things.

(Image)

Its widely known that the commanders are the problem in Iraq. The troops are very motivated, even at the beginning, but a simple soldiers doesn't know what to do when his commander runs, and so they also run. If only Iraq had some proper commanders then this wouldn't be such an issue all together and Iraq could have beaten back IS already... I sadly have to agree with the soldier, the militia's are doing a much more effective job then the army.

As for splitting it up, i'm not very fond on that plan. Those new nations would never be able to function properly as they would become puppet states of the regional powers like Turkey, Saudi-Arabia, Iran and probably Israel. Aside from that it would likely only cause more issues, more wars, more shit we don't want. On that all though, if the people living there would want it, then sure, but as for now i haven't heard them supporting something like that.
I'd rather see Syria and Iraq federalized, giving all those ethnicities & Religions more choices of their own while staying part of a nation that can act in its own interests.

The thing is a federal state will inevitably be de facto split, so the unified federal state will only exist on paper. There is no reason to believe the grips will accept a federal state with any real powers, for example the Kurds have said they will only accept an extremely weak federal government. And the states are just going to disregard the federal government anyway.

[Migas999]

Pretty much yeah.



Its widely known that the commanders are the problem in Iraq. The troops are very motivated, even at the beginning, but a simple soldiers doesn't know what to do when his commander runs, and so they also run. If only Iraq had some proper commanders then this wouldn't be such an issue all together and Iraq could have beaten back IS already... I sadly have to agree with the soldier, the militia's are doing a much more effective job then the army.

As for splitting it up, i'm not very fond on that plan. Those new nations would never be able to function properly as they would become puppet states of the regional powers like Turkey, Saudi-Arabia, Iran and probably Israel. Aside from that it would likely only cause more issues, more wars, more shit we don't want. On that all though, if the people living there would want it, then sure, but as for now i haven't heard them supporting something like that.
I'd rather see Syria and Iraq federalized, giving all those ethnicities & Religions more choices of their own while staying part of a nation that can act in its own interests.

The thing is a federal state will inevitably be de facto split, so the unified federal state will only exist on paper. There is no reason to believe the grips will accept a federal state with any real powers, for example the Kurds have said they will only accept an extremely weak federal government. And the states are just going to disregard the federal government anyway.

The Kurds have already established their own regional government in northern Iraq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:I ... tailed_map

[Novus America]

No but the fact that they couldn´t hold the city with a 10 to 1 advantage is a little bit bad it just shows how unprepared the Iraqi Army is

A 10-1 advantage means absolutely nothing when you have the strategic disadvantage. The Iraqi Troops had no Air Support and were caught by surprise. Numbers simply don't help in that scenario.

Umm even the Scretary of Desense says the Iraqi army is a joke, and he is more authoritative than your unsourced claims.

[Migas999]

A 10-1 advantage means absolutely nothing when you have the strategic disadvantage. The Iraqi Troops had no Air Support and were caught by surprise. Numbers simply don't help in that scenario.

Umm even the Scretary of Desense says the Iraqi army is a joke, and he is more authoritative than your unsourced claims.

He said the Iraq Army had no will to fight