Islamic State Crisis Megathread (ISIS/ISIL/IS)

[Socialist Czechia]

I think this crisis also again shown that multinational, multilanguage and multireligion states are always a mess.

If Austrian Empire, Russian Empire or Yugoslavia didn't survive ethnic/religious conflicts in the end, artificial states of Syria or Iraq can't survive as well.
Turkey was 'lucky' to commit Armenian genocide and expulsion of Greeks, without it, there would be same situation today. Kurds alone are large threat anyway, and this time, government can't order extermination.

[Connori Pilgrims]

He's not wrong
Do you know how much war costs? Idgaf about human cost, though that's pretty high, but have you seen how much this shit costs in dollars?

1.7 trillion USD for the Iraq War (2003-2011) according to WIIS in Brown University, which is probably a lower-bound estimate. As for the present war against Daesh, I have no clue ATM as it is ongoing and will have to wait for a future report.

War costs a lot, both in treasure, material and lives. Only the most insane don't think that. That being said, Adroki is still a naive idealist for thinking that negotiation and compromise with the entity that calls itself ISIS/Caliphate/whatever at this stage of the game, when they have not gained decisive victory over their foes and could well be losing, is a desirable thing.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think this crisis also again shown that multinational, multilanguage and multireligion states are always a mess.

If Austrian Empire, Russian Empire or Yugoslavia didn't survive ethnic/religious conflicts in the end, artificial states of Syria or Iraq can't survive as well.
Turkey was 'lucky' to commit Armenian genocide and expulsion of Greeks, without it, there would be same situation today. Kurds alone are large threat anyway, and this time, government can't order extermination.

The most powerful nation on Earth is a multinational, multi-language, and multi-religious state. So I suggest that you take your apartheid apologism elsewhere. Enforced conformity does not lead to a healthy state. It requires despotism and encourages stagnation and lack of adaptability.

[Socialist Czechia]

I think this crisis also again shown that multinational, multilanguage and multireligion states are always a mess.

If Austrian Empire, Russian Empire or Yugoslavia didn't survive ethnic/religious conflicts in the end, artificial states of Syria or Iraq can't survive as well.
Turkey was 'lucky' to commit Armenian genocide and expulsion of Greeks, without it, there would be same situation today. Kurds alone are large threat anyway, and this time, government can't order extermination.

The most powerful nation on Earth is a multinational, multi-language, and multi-religious state. So I suggest that you take your apartheid apologism elsewhere. Enforced conformity does not lead to a healthy state. It requires despotism and encourages stagnation and lack of adaptability.

Because it's no nation at all. With no own history or identity in European or Asian sense of words. Just many immigrants who works there.

Besides, 'most powerful nation' today is People's Republic of China. Why? Because, if PRC's economy would fall today, world economy will collapse. Too many interests, too many investments. Some important raw materials are no longer mined nowhere but in China.
If US economy would fall today, world wouldn't collapse.
Importance of US is smaller every year. And I don't mean just economic importance.

[The Romulan Republic]

The most powerful nation on Earth is a multinational, multi-language, and multi-religious state. So I suggest that you take your apartheid apologism elsewhere. Enforced conformity does not lead to a healthy state. It requires despotism and encourages stagnation and lack of adaptability.

Because it's no nation at all. With no own history or identity in European or Asian sense of words. Just many immigrants who works there.

Besides, 'most powerful nation' today is People's Republic of China. Why? Because, if PRC's economy would fall today, world economy will collapse. Too many interests, too many investments. Some important raw materials are no longer mined nowhere but in China.
If US economy would fall today, world wouldn't collapse.
Importance of US is smaller every year. And I don't mean just economic importance.

Right. It doesn't count as a nation unless its got forced conformity where no outside ideas are tolerated. Go take your love of oppression somewhere else.

I would also seriously question that China is the most powerful. A rival for America, yes. But not definitively more powerful. And personally I think you underestimate how interconnected economies are. If America's economy went down, it damn well would pull much of the world with it, not that that's a good thing.

[Socialist Czechia]

Right. It doesn't count as a nation unless its got forced conformity where no outside ideas are tolerated. Go take your love of oppression somewhere else.

I would also seriously question that China is the most powerful. A rival for America, yes. But not definitively more powerful. And personally I think you underestimate how interconnected economies are. If America's economy went down, it damn well would pull much of the world with it, not that that's a good thing.

it's not about "forced conformity", it's about, that US is no national state so it's no nation, with no national goals, same as there is no 'british' nation - just artificial constructs

it works well in anglo-american parts of world, because it's the only option how to hold together bunch of immigrants who shares nothing common, except language.

outside it, however, is different world, where people lives in same place for thousand or thousands of years, be it Franks, Russians, Persians or Han Chinese. it's not "forced conformity", but "national integrity".

[Washington Resistance Army]

The most powerful nation on Earth is a multinational, multi-language, and multi-religious state. So I suggest that you take your apartheid apologism elsewhere. Enforced conformity does not lead to a healthy state. It requires despotism and encourages stagnation and lack of adaptability.

Because it's no nation at all. With no own history or identity in European or Asian sense of words. Just many immigrants who works there.

Besides, 'most powerful nation' today is People's Republic of China. Why? Because, if PRC's economy would fall today, world economy will collapse. Too many interests, too many investments. Some important raw materials are no longer mined nowhere but in China.
If US economy would fall today, world wouldn't collapse.
Importance of US is smaller every year. And I don't mean just economic importance.

Wildly wrong on all points.

[New Jordslag]

The most powerful nation on Earth is a multinational, multi-language, and multi-religious state. So I suggest that you take your apartheid apologism elsewhere. Enforced conformity does not lead to a healthy state. It requires despotism and encourages stagnation and lack of adaptability.

Because it's no nation at all. With no own history or identity in European or Asian sense of words. Just many immigrants who works there.

Besides, 'most powerful nation' today is People's Republic of China. Why? Because, if PRC's economy would fall today, world economy will collapse. Too many interests, too many investments. Some important raw materials are no longer mined nowhere but in China.
If US economy would fall today, world wouldn't collapse.
Importance of US is smaller every year. And I don't mean just economic importance.

Actually, if we fell, the Chinese economy would collapse. So by extent, we could very well make the world economy collapse.

So no. The World would be effected should anything happen to America, because then something would happen to China, and therefore the rest of the world.

[Blakk Metal]

The most powerful nation on Earth is a multinational uni-national, multi-language uni-linguistic, and multi-religious barely religious state. So I suggest that you take your apartheid apologism nationalism elsewhere. Enforced conformity does not lead to a healthy state.

Corrected.

[Ardoki]

He's not wrong
Do you know how much war costs? Idgaf about human cost, though that's pretty high, but have you seen how much this shit costs in dollars?

1.7 trillion USD for the Iraq War (2003-2011) according to WIIS in Brown University, which is probably a lower-bound estimate. As for the present war against Daesh, I have no clue ATM as it is ongoing and will have to wait for a future report.

War costs a lot, both in treasure, material and lives. Only the most insane don't think that. That being said, Adroki is still a naive idealist for thinking that negotiation and compromise with the entity that calls itself ISIS/Caliphate/whatever at this stage of the game, when they have not gained decisive victory over their foes and could well be losing, is a desirable thing.

Just nuclear bomb all their territory. It will cost a lot less than a conventional war, and there will be no more arguments about what to call them.

[Washington Resistance Army]

1.7 trillion USD for the Iraq War (2003-2011) according to WIIS in Brown University, which is probably a lower-bound estimate. As for the present war against Daesh, I have no clue ATM as it is ongoing and will have to wait for a future report.

War costs a lot, both in treasure, material and lives. Only the most insane don't think that. That being said, Adroki is still a naive idealist for thinking that negotiation and compromise with the entity that calls itself ISIS/Caliphate/whatever at this stage of the game, when they have not gained decisive victory over their foes and could well be losing, is a desirable thing.

Just nuclear bomb all their territory. It will cost a lot less than a conventional war, and there will be no more arguments about what to call them.

I really hope that's sarcasm.

[The Romulan Republic]

The most powerful nation on Earth is a multinational uni-national, multi-language uni-linguistic, and multi-religious barely religious state. So I suggest that you take your apartheid apologism nationalism elsewhere. Enforced conformity does not lead to a healthy state.

Corrected.

You know what I hate? Smug, self-satisfied people who put words in others' mouths.

I am about as far from nationalist as you can can get. I simply recognize the US for what is: a diverse nation that is extraordinarily powerful despite, and indeed in part because, of being diverse.

Also, I don't know about multinational, but the US has numerous languages (and no official recognized language, or so I've heard) and the situation is the same with religion as with language.

[Kubra]

The most powerful nation on Earth is a multinational uni-national, multi-language uni-linguistic, and multi-religious barely religious state. So I suggest that you take your apartheid apologism nationalism elsewhere. Enforced conformity does not lead to a healthy state.

Corrected.

>the states
>uni-national
>uni-linguistic

ohohohohoh
is funny

Corrected.

You know what I hate? Smug, self-satisfied people who put words in others' mouths.

I am about as far from nationalist as you can can get. I simply recognize the US for what is: a diverse nation that is extraordinarily powerful despite, and indeed in part because, of being diverse.

Also, I don't know about multinational, but the US has numerous languages (and no official recognized language, or so I've heard) and the situation is the same with religion as with language.

He ain't saying that you're a nationalist, quite the opposite.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes, I see he wasn't calling me a nationalist. My mistake. Its late. Still wrong about some other stuff.

[Ganos Lao]

Because it's no nation at all. With no own history or identity in European or Asian sense of words. Just many immigrants who works there.

The Americans (like Canadians, Australians, Brazilians, etc) use the concept of civic nationalism, which stems from European thought and which differs from the ethnic nationalism found elsewhere (and in certain parts of the American population). They are all from different races, religions, etc but consider themselves Americans based on their shared experiences.

As Renan put it, a nation is:

a soul, a spiritual principle. Two things, which are really one, constitute this soul and spiritual principle. One is in the past, the other, the present. One is the possession in common of a rich trove of memories; the other is actual consent, the desire to live together, the will to continue to value the undivided, shared heritage....To have had glorious moments in common in the past, a common will in the present, to have done great things together and to wish to do more, those are the essential conditions for a people. We love the nation in proportion to the sacrifices to which we consented, the harms that we suffered.

[Tierra Prime]

What's this I hear about a flesh-eating virus making rounds in ISIS lands?

[Sebastianbourg]

What's this I hear about a flesh-eating virus making rounds in ISIS lands?

I'm led to believe it is a satirical 'news' website.

[Imperial City-States]

What's this I hear about a flesh-eating virus making rounds in ISIS lands?

I'm led to believe it is a satirical 'news' website.

If only it was the truth, that would be highly amusing.

[Anollasia]

I think this crisis also again shown that multinational, multilanguage and multireligion states are always a mess.

If Austrian Empire, Russian Empire or Yugoslavia didn't survive ethnic/religious conflicts in the end, artificial states of Syria or Iraq can't survive as well.
Turkey was 'lucky' to commit Armenian genocide and expulsion of Greeks, without it, there would be same situation today. Kurds alone are large threat anyway, and this time, government can't order extermination.

I know right. Canada is the 'messiest' state on earth.

/sarcasm

[Salus Maior]

I think this crisis also again shown that multinational, multilanguage and multireligion states are always a mess.

If Austrian Empire, Russian Empire or Yugoslavia didn't survive ethnic/religious conflicts in the end, artificial states of Syria or Iraq can't survive as well.
Turkey was 'lucky' to commit Armenian genocide and expulsion of Greeks, without it, there would be same situation today. Kurds alone are large threat anyway, and this time, government can't order extermination.

The most powerful nation on Earth is a multinational, multi-language, and multi-religious state. So I suggest that you take your apartheid apologism elsewhere. Enforced conformity does not lead to a healthy state. It requires despotism and encourages stagnation and lack of adaptability.

The thing is, most people are ok with each other in America, and come in wanting to be a part of the society. Meanwhile, Iraq's borders were drawn without any say from the people actually living there.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with what Czech is saying, but I think the peoples of Iraq would benefit and prefer having their own states. A Sunni one, a Shia one, and a Kurdish one (well, the Kurds are making their own state by themselves, but might as well list them).

[Ganos Lao]

The thing is, most people are ok with each other in America, and come in wanting to be a part of the society. Meanwhile, Iraq's borders were drawn without any say from the people actually living there.

A cynically minded sort could argue America's were drawn without any say too.

[Salus Maior]

The thing is, most people are ok with each other in America, and come in wanting to be a part of the society. Meanwhile, Iraq's borders were drawn without any say from the people actually living there.

A cynically minded sort could argue America's were drawn without any say too.

It was done with America's say so , Iraq had no say in its borders. No correlation.

Anyhow, I fail to see your point. Do you disagree with the fact that Britain's piss-poor border drawing has led to a lot of disorder and suffering for all peoples involved? Do you disagree with the idea that would entail that all peoples would have fair representation and leadership in their government? More than half of Iraq's problems have been from one group having more power over another, if Iraq were divided so that the each culture would have a majority in their respective divisions, that problem would be gone.

[Ganos Lao]

A cynically minded sort could argue America's were drawn without any say too.

It was done with America's say so , Iraq had no say in its borders. No correlation.

Anyhow, I fail to see your point. Do you disagree with the fact that Britain's piss-poor border drawing has led to a lot of disorder and suffering for all peoples involved? Do you disagree with the idea that would entail that all peoples would have fair representation and leadership in their government? More than half of Iraq's problems have been from one group having more power over another, if Iraq were divided so that the each culture would have a majority in their respective divisions, that problem would be gone.

You fail to see my point? What point? I was merely making the observation that some would say America's borders were drawn without the say of the people actually living there (the Native Americans) just as you believe Iraq's was. Nothing more or less.

[Salus Maior]

It was done with America's say so , Iraq had no say in its borders. No correlation.

Anyhow, I fail to see your point. Do you disagree with the fact that Britain's piss-poor border drawing has led to a lot of disorder and suffering for all peoples involved? Do you disagree with the idea that would entail that all peoples would have fair representation and leadership in their government? More than half of Iraq's problems have been from one group having more power over another, if Iraq were divided so that the each culture would have a majority in their respective divisions, that problem would be gone.

You fail to see my point? What point? I was merely making the observation that some would say America's borders were drawn without the say of the people actually living there (the Native Americans) just as you believe Iraq's was. Nothing more or less.

Native Americans weren't citizens of the U.S. The borders were drawn by the U.S Govt for the people of the U.S. Iraq's borders were drawn by a foreign power (Britain), without the say of the Iraqis or consideration of their cultural divisions, and then decided to not have anything to do with the place.

[Ganos Lao]

You fail to see my point? What point? I was merely making the observation that some would say America's borders were drawn without the say of the people actually living there (the Native Americans) just as you believe Iraq's was. Nothing more or less.

Native Americans weren't citizens of the U.S. The borders were drawn by the U.S Govt for the people of the U.S. Iraq's borders were drawn by a foreign power (Britain), without the say of the Iraqis or consideration of their cultural divisions, and then decided to not have anything to do with the place.

But they were, as you put it, "the people actually living there."

I'm just saying some people will make the observation, but at any rate Iraq is going to have a lot to deal with when ISIS is finally dealt with.