Russia hits West with food import ban in sanctions row

[OMGeverynameistaken]

It seems the EU. third quarter growth rate numbers will be going down because of the Russian EU embargo on certain EU. items.

Seems the EU. will be making payments to farmers hit hard economically by this Russian embargo. What I find very un business like is what is said in the following article.

Meanwhile, a senior EU official said the 28-member bloc is preparing to apply diplomatic pressure to prevent other countries stepping in and trying to grab the Russian markets closed to its producers, citing potential rivals in Brazil and Egypt.

Unbelievable! They need to be reminded that the Empire days are over. Business competition is what it is all about not monopoly control.

Article - http://news.yahoo.com/eu-moves-protect- ... 07961.html

But it's a FREEDOM monopoly.

[Wind in the Willows]

The sanctions have affected the EU and the US more than they have Russia. I think both sides need to reconsider their options, especially the West.

[Occupied Deutschland]

The sanctions have affected the EU and the US more than they have Russia. I think both sides need to reconsider their options, especially the West.

Indeed. It'd be much easier to just remove Russia from it's ill-gotten, couped-in place on the Security Council, then pass some resolutions concerning International Security.

[The Ben Boys]

The sanctions have affected the EU and the US more than they have Russia. I think both sides need to reconsider their options, especially the West.

No, it hasn't.

According to the USDA:

American farmers export 45 percent of their wheat, 34 percent of their soybeans, 71 percent of their almonds, and more than 60 percent of their sunflower oil.

Russia imports about 13% of it's total food. That's like, a lot; the U.S. is one of the largest food exporters in the world and exports 12% of it's foodstuffs. It's chief partners are the EU, U.S, and a bit in China.

Now unless you think the almighty dollar is more important than starving people, Russia is suffering more than the U.S. Heck, I'll check the numbers but with the size of the U.S. agricultural market I doubt this is much more than a hiccup.

EDIT:

It takes $306 million from the poultry industry according to the Washington Post (that's a lot of food not going into Russian stomachs). According to the American Meat Institute the industry's sales (domestic and international) was $154 billion in 2009. And that was a bad year.

So it looks like the industry is suffering a whopping .19% drop in sales. Sorry, the U.S. is doing just fine.

[Farnhamia]

The sanctions have affected the EU and the US more than they have Russia. I think both sides need to reconsider their options, especially the West.

According to the USDA:

American farmers export 45 percent of their wheat, 34 percent of their soybeans, 71 percent of their almonds, and more than 60 percent of their sunflower oil.

Russia imports about 13% of it's total food. That's like, a lot; the U.S. is one of the largest food exporters in the world and exports 12% of it's foodstuffs. It's chief partners are the EU, U.S, and a bit in China.

Now unless you think the almighty dollar is more important than starving people, Russia is suffering more than the U.S. Heck, I'll check the numbers but with the size of the U.S. agricultural market I doubt this is much more than a hiccup.

I checked the numbers and there are some in the article in the OP. These sanctions will cost the US about $1.3 billion. All our agricultural exports total about $115 billion. It's not even a hiccup.

[The Ben Boys]

-snip-

I just ran the numbers on the meat industry which was "hit the hardest"; it's nothing. Like literally, almost nothing.

[Tahar Joblis]

Good one! You're the first "American Socialist" I know that thinks that giving away land on the basis of ethnicity, against the people's consent is awesome

I don't. Next strawman positon?

the first who'd prefer the American taxpayers to fund one Ukrainian Oligarch faction against another

If there's a clear reason to, yes. From each according to ability, to each according to need.

and in some cases even their own people

Ambiguous referent.

while Detroit cannot even get water for some of their residents, the borders are a mess, Obamacare/healthcare is the symbol of incompetence and inefficiency, (also thanks to Republicans,) etc. But sure, you can be an "American Socialist" and I'll be Donald Trump.

Hello, Mr. Trump. I invite you to take note of the fact that I am the vice-delegate of The Proletariat Coalition here on NS, one of the oldest and most prominent (and for many years the largest) leftist regions; and that I routinely endorse socialized health care, child care, and expanding the welfare system to fill in all the giant holes in the US social safety net.

The Rogue State of Tahar Joblis is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by a complex mess of committees with a fair hand, and notable for its punitive income tax rates. The compassionate, intelligent population of 25.141 billion Tahar Joblisians hold their civil and political rights very dear, although the wealthy and those in business tend to be viewed with suspicion.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent, liberal government stops and the rest of society begins, but it concentrates mainly on Social Welfare, although Education and the Environment are on the agenda. It meets every day to discuss matters of state in the capital city of Taharasopolissa. The average income tax rate is 83%, and even higher for the wealthy. The private sector is almost wholly made up of enterprising ten-year-olds selling lemonade on the sidewalk, although the government is looking at stamping this out.

The government seizes private property for the 'good of the people', scenic mountain valleys are flooded with water as damming projects get underway, people are now classified as male, female, or genderqueer, and nude art is becoming wildly popular. Crime is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Tahar Joblis's national animal is the giant pacific octopus, which frolics freely in the nation's sparkling oceans, and its currency is the emuri.

"American socialist" has not meant "reflexively defending the CCCP" since it became public knowledge how fond Stalin was of killing large numbers of his own people. And it has at no point meant "endorse Putin's kleptocrats' and ogilarchs' attempts to make sure other former Soviet states stay mired in corruption."

You do realize that can have both, a rising middle class and rising food prices, right? The latter does tend to impede the former, but it doesn't mean that it would prevent the former from growth.

Can, yes. But inequality is a major problem in Russia already.

Hmm, I wonder, if the SpetzNaz killed one Ukrainian Oligarch, would you also be so quaint?

By accident with a mortar shell that might have been fired by someone else, while thousands of Russians died in a much more deliberate fashion in Russia as a result of Ukrainian meddling in Russian internal affairs? I would be "so quaint" as to think it was not particularly important.

Russians have died in this conflict in not inconsiderable numbers, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 99.8-99.9% of the Russian nationals who have died in this conflict came over the Russian border and took up arms before getting shot, which undermines the ability of Russia to use those deaths as a convincing casus belli.

The problem with your historical comparisons is that like Ukrainian Nationalists, you tend to completely ignore substantial differences. The reasons for those numbers were the purges/GULAG/collectivization

The poor training of Russian tank crews had a little to do with purges.

none of which occurred under Putin. Sure Putin went after Khodorkovsky, after the latter tried to steal from the Russian government, specifically Putin's faction. But quite a few others are still in place. Abramovich, who launched quality reforms in Kamchatka when Putin came to power, reforms that stabilized the region, is still there, and will be there for quite a while. Kudrin is kept on in an advisory capacity. I could easily drop more names of quality economists, but I made my point. You will, of course, continue to fearmonger.

I'm not "fearmongering." I am pointing out what any honest expert is likely to point out: That this move, in economic terms, hurts Russia more than it hurts the EU and US. A handful of profiteers in Russia will benefit; Turkey, China, and Latin America may also benefit; but Russia as a whole is harmed by this measure.

More fearmongering. I'd like a legitimate source for the 10:1 figure, since, knowing you, it just looks like a number you pulled out of your ass, solely to bring in North Korea.

Did you read the links on salmon?

• Price change in Russia: Observed +100% (already!).
• Price change in EU: Projected -10% to -12%.
• Prince change in US: Projected negligible change.

Did you look at the percentages of imports/exports affected? Russia makes up 3% of the global import market. EU / US / etc make up over 30% of the global export market. Russia is going to be typically affected about 10x as strongly as the EU and US by any policy change impacting EU / US / Canadian / Australian exports to Russia.

Obama has chosen to use EU's funds to fight Russia. The EU is forced to fight Obama's Financial War against Russia over which Oligarchs get to rule Ukraine.

Not particularly. The EU is not subservient to the US, and has their own interests in the pile. They have chosen to follow Obama's lead. They bear a larger cost from trade relations with Russia worsening; they also stand to change relations with the Ukraine much more significantly.

They were called the Euromaidan protests for a reason. This kerfluffle started with Russia's jealous-bear routine trying to prevent the Ukraine from getting closer to the EU. Obama pitched in as a nosy interventionist on the side of the EU because the US is good friends with the EU - not to mention key NATO members Poland and Turkey having strong interests in the alignment of Ukrainian interests with the EU as opposed to Russia. The Baltic states have also been quite legitimately concerned.

I don't know if you remember, but Poland has been a whole lot more militant about this and took a lead role in demanding that NATO step up and do something about Russia's actions. This is not simply about Obama and Putin.

And it also provides more jobs to more people who aren't illegal immigrants working in piss poor conditions for extremely low wages. You do know that illegals cost Californians $1.5 billion in healthcare alone, right?

As strange as it may seem, illegal immigrants on the whole tend to pay more in taxes than they consume in government services. You might want to read this for a basic summary.

Some of the important features are that illegals are disproportionately unlikely to file for a tax refund, and disproportionately unlikely to seek government services, which means that the cost / benefit ratio to the state is surprisingly good considering their low income. Of course, the downside of that analysis having been done is that now, the government bean-counters are aware that amnesty may have a negative impact on the budget deficit, which is unfortunate, but illegal immigrants really don't hurt the American economy per se.

Putin is in the habit of promoting competition, he just wants to regulate it, because Russia had unregulated competition in the 1990s, and that failed. Miserably. Utterly. Totally. Completely. It was truly devastating. And again, by aiding the farming class, he's growing the farming sector in Russia.

Regulation is what the EU does. You can see what that means: Health, safety, and labor standards that are enforced across the board without special consideration.

For Putin, "regulation" means something that gives you an excuse to move on people who do something politically inconvenient, like banning imports of Moldovan wine, Ukrainian chocolates, etc, which were clearly political sanctions implemented with a thin excuse of "health" grounds.

Russia has political stability. There's no need for another massive politically stabilizing class.

Which, again, is why talking about the benefits of implementing the Stolypin reforms now is nonsensical. TBH, there's not even a good reason to think that the current agricultural sector sees less of an interest in stability than a reorganized agricultural.

I'm not. I'm a Keynesian. We know that economy is cyclical. It's what you do during the boom cycle that counts, and Putin used the boom cycles to improve Russia's demographics. That's a plus for him, irrespective of how much you despise him.

What you do during the bust part of the cycle is quite important. See, for example, FDR's massive infrastructure investments.

I'm not saying that Putin is an idiot. I am saying that this specific policy decision is harmful to Russia; and is more harmful to Russia than it is to the US and EU. And the US and EU understand that quite well.

The truth of the matter is that Putin belligerently attacking the EU / US / AUS / CAN economically, he's raising the hackles of the ordinary citizens of the West as much as he is rallying domestic support around the flag.

That's not really the question.

It is the question.

The question is how much bullshit will the EU working class tolerate to keep paying for Poproshenko's Clique to remain in power in Ukraine.

If Poroshenko loses support among Ukrainians, he will be out on his ear in the next election. If Poroshenko's party loses support among Ukrainians, they will get thrashed in the parliamentary elections immediately. And those will probably be upcoming quite soon.

What the EU's working class (and US working class) will tolerate are measures to keep Ukrainian politics free and democratic.

[Roski]

http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/bmd26v/vladimir-putin-s-food-sanctions


Russia 2spook

[Lyttenburg]

http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/bmd26v/vladimir-putin-s-food-sanctions


Russia 2spook

Is it normal for the american audience to behave in such histerical manner seeing some nonsense and lame puns?

I guess, no matter what I say or what evidences "on the ground" I provide, the armchair "experts" of NSG would still prdict doom, gloom and starvation relying only on "Russia imports 40% of its food" number.

Newsflash! Nearly all countries import some foodstuffs. What these "experts" feel is above their meager capabilities, is to research subject at lengths, like what part of these magical 40% was from the countries now sanctioned, what kind of products would be affected and, most important of all, to what degree the Russian agro sector would replace these products.

Take chickens for example. The ones that are sold in my store are from the local, Moscow oblast, based poultry factory. I'm not a big fan of KFC or McDonalds, so, if that means that their "restraurants" might start closing in Russia, I won't shed a single tear - the less of this unhealthy crap, the better.

[Roski]

http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/bmd26v/vladimir-putin-s-food-sanctions


Russia 2spook

Is it normal for the american audience to behave in such histerical manner seeing some nonsense and lame puns?

I guess, no matter what I say or what evidences "on the ground" I provide, the armchair "experts" of NSG would still prdict doom, gloom and starvation relying only on "Russia imports 40% of its food" number.

Newsflash! Neraly all countries import some foodstuffs. What these "experts" feel is above their meager capabilities, is to research subject at lengths, like what part of these magical 40% was from the countries now sanctioned, what kind of products would be affected and, most important of all, to what degree the Russian agro sector would replace these products.

Take chickens for example. The ones that are sold in my store are from the local, Moscow oblast, based poultry factory. I'm not a big fan of KFC or McDonalds, so, if that means that their "restraurants" might start closing in Russia, I won't shed a single tear - the less of this unhealthy crap, the better.

Russia is in no danger of starving to death, just food choices are a tad more limited.
He was more responded to how that would affect us, not Russia.

[Lyttenburg]

Russia is in no danger of starving to death, just food choices are a tad more limited.
He was more responded to how that would affect us, not Russia.

Us, meaning - USA? Well, newsflash (again!) for Mr. Colbert and his script-writers. This sacnctions business has never been amied at you (yeah, I know, you feel so import and think that everything in the world must be about you... but it isn't).

The aim of these sanctions - the so-called "New Europe". Russia is the second largest trade partner of Poland (the largest beign Germany). Polish farmers would be hit hard. And its telling (and quite... educational) how the "Old Europe" and the States are sing-songing "We are not afraid of big bad wolf!", while don't giving a fuck to what happens to the rest of the EU.

[Roski]

Russia is in no danger of starving to death, just food choices are a tad more limited.
He was more responded to how that would affect us, not Russia.

Us, meaning - USA? Well, newsflash (again!) for Mr. Colbert and his screen-writers. This sacnctions business has never beign amied at you (yeah, I know, you fill so import and think that everything in the world must be about you... but it isn't).

The aim of these sanctions - so-called "New Europe". Russia is the second largest trade partners of Poland (the largest beign Germany). Polish farmers would be hit hard. And its telling (and quite... educational) how the "Old Europe" and the States are sing-songing "We are not afraid of big bad wolf!", while don't giving a fuck to what happens to the rest of the EU.

While then sending Aid to Europe because we have a continuing marshall plan in Europe.
We also will buy from Poland.
And Germany.
And Lithuania.
And Latvia.
And Australia.
And Ourselves.

Good on you Russia, you fucked up again.

[Lyttenburg]

While then sending Aid to Europe because we have a continuing marshall plan in Europe.
We also will buy from Poland.
And Germany.
And Lithuania.
And Latvia.
And Australia.
And Ourselves.

Good on you Russia, you fucked up again.

Srsly?

"We have a continuing marshall plan in Europe" - sources, please. Even now Polish government is "not very pleased" at the EU-comission, that pushed for sanctions on Russia, but haven't done anything in creating a compensation fund for all European farmers, that might be affected (you see, EU-rocrats are now on vocations). Creating such fund is not a matter of just a few days.

But, as I have to remind me again and again, while arguing with you, user Roski, I shouldn't expect that you actually provide me with sources or reasearch the import/export of the EU countries. Better to post some very categorial messages from your mobile, right?

[Jamjai]

so would this mean the us-eu trade block will a more than a good thing

after what russia just did right now

[The Ben Boys]

Russia is in no danger of starving to death, just food choices are a tad more limited.
He was more responded to how that would affect us, not Russia.

Us, meaning - USA? Well, newsflash (again!) for Mr. Colbert and his script-writers. This sanctions business has never been aimed at you (yeah, I know, you feel so import and think that everything in the world must be about you... but it isn't).

Now who's generalizing?

The aim of these sanctions - the so-called "New Europe". Russia is the second largest trade partner of Poland (the largest being Germany). Polish farmers would be hit hard.

These sanctions would hit Europe-especially the Eastern portion-the hardest, though I have little insight on the agricultural sector of that region so I'll take your word on it.

And its telling (and quite... educational) how the "Old Europe" and the States are sing-songing "We are not afraid of big bad wolf!", while not giving a fuck to what happens to the rest of the EU.

"Old Europe" being the (relatively) greater powers in the West (i.e. the UK, Germany, and France)? As I understand it they have an stimulus and subsidy system to offset this (something I heard in passing, checking for source so don't go all "WHERE IS IT?!?" on me). It's the age-old problem of the EU, that of the East/West disconnect that probably has something to do with the Cold War, not that hard to see.

The United States doesn't give a fuck because the matter isn't "fuck" worthy. It's pretty simple. At worst from the West's viewpoint Russia is hitting a few countries in the EU (which is bad, but not earth-shattering), whilst the worst from Russia's angle is that it cut off some of it's food supply and risks even more social unrest (important to see those "worst scenario" portions). Which has, historically speaking, been a problem for Russia, especially in the last 100 years.

[Napkiraly]

It seems the EU. third quarter growth rate numbers will be going down because of the Russian EU embargo on certain EU. items.

Seems the EU. will be making payments to farmers hit hard economically by this Russian embargo. What I find very un business like is what is said in the following article.

Meanwhile, a senior EU official said the 28-member bloc is preparing to apply diplomatic pressure to prevent other countries stepping in and trying to grab the Russian markets closed to its producers, citing potential rivals in Brazil and Egypt.

Unbelievable! They need to be reminded that the Empire days are over. Business competition is what it is all about not monopoly control.

Article - http://news.yahoo.com/eu-moves-protect- ... 07961.html

Boohoo. It's in our interests to keep them closed off and we'll do what we damn well please.

[Allanea]

Price change in Russia: Observed +100% (already!).

Nope. It was a mistake retracted by the media.

[Arkolon]

How are the Germans, Poles, and Balts faring with the sanctions?

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

While then sending Aid to Europe because we have a continuing marshall plan in Europe.
We also will buy from Poland.
And Germany.
And Lithuania.
And Latvia.
And Australia.
And Ourselves.

Good on you Russia, you fucked up again.

Srsly?

"We have a continuing marshall plan in Europe" - sources, please. Even now Polish government is "not very pleased" at the EU-comission, that pushed for sanctions on Russia, but haven't done anything in creating a compensation fund for all European farmers, that might be affected (you see, EU-rocrats are now on vocations). Creating such fund is not a matter of just a few days.

But, as I have to remind me again and again, while arguing with you, user Roski, I shouldn't expect that you actually provide me with sources or reasearch the import/export of the EU countries. Better to post some very categorial messages from your mobile, right?

Rather than get snitty, perhaps you could just ... not respond to players who you are unable to resist getting baity with, hm? If their participation does not meet with your expectation, move on and try the higher ground.

It'd be something novel, at least.

Let's keep things civil, shall we folks? Thanks.

[Lyttenburg]

How are the Germans, Poles, and Balts faring with the sanctions?

Poland, to put it mildy, "is not amused" with how the EU is managing damage-control of Russian sacntions. In his interview to Latvian Radio-station Baltcom Deputy Chief of Polish Sejm's Comission on the International Affairs Thaddaeus Ivinskiy said, that Poland was unprepared to Russian sanctions. According to him, Poland is the worlds leading producer of apples, cabbages and paprika, and neither current Polish government, nor Brussel have taken steps to hekp Pokish farmers and peasants. There is already damage done to Polish economy, he continues, and government would be forced to just give away apples to shcools and pensioners for free.

[Tahar Joblis]

Price change in Russia: Observed +100% (already!).

Nope. It was a mistake retracted by the media.

So what's the actual increase in the price of salmon on the Russian market? Or are they in fact going back to Soviet-style strict price controls?

[Tahar Joblis]

How are the Germans, Poles, and Balts faring with the sanctions?

Poland, to put it mildy, "is not amused" with how the EU is managing damage-control of Russian sacntions. In his interview to Latvian Radio-station Baltcom Deputy Chief of Polish Sejm's Comission on the International Affairs Thaddaeus Ivinskiy said, that Poland was unprepared to Russian sanctions. According to him, Poland is the worlds leading producer of apples, cabbages and paprika, and neither current Polish government, nor Brussel have taken steps to hekp Pokish farmers and peasants. There is already damage done to Polish economy, he continues, and government would be forced to just give away apples to shcools and pensioners for free.

That said, while Poland is acknowledging the sanctions have had a negative effect on the Polish economy, they are considering escalating sanctions.

Finland's waiting for the lawsuit after the dust settles. Germany, Poland, and the Baltics are all noting an effect on their economies, but also showing political resolve. Political resolve behind the sanctions seems to be more lacking in Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and France.

EDIT: It's a little ironic when you consider that the EU states who are clearly most strongly affected are showing firm resolve, while those showing a lack of enthusiasm for the sanctions are among those who are not as strongly affected, but probably not coincidental. They are the ones who are going to have to deal with Russia the most in the future.

[Allanea]

Nope. It was a mistake retracted by the media.

So what's the actual increase in the price of salmon on the Russian market? Or are they in fact going back to Soviet-style strict price controls?

Russkoye Morye have announced that they will not yet increase price, and that they're still considering their new price policy.

http://itar-tass.com/ekonomika/1370523

"The only price increase known is that of Chilean fish, which is 15-20%."

[Lyttenburg]

That said, while Poland is acknowledging the sanctions have had a negative effect on the Polish economy, they are considering escalating sanctions.

And who we are to prevent their nomination for the "Darwin award"? Although, it would be hard to outdone the Ukraine.

Finland's waiting for the lawsuit after the dust settles. Germany, Poland, and the Baltics are all noting an effect on their economies, but also showing political resolve. Political resolve behind the sanctions seems to be more lacking in Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and France.

"Political Resolve" is such fine, powerful - but utterly meaningless term, that I can't help but LOLing reading it. It's all about greed and profits, which would always trump everything else.

[Tahar Joblis]

That said, while Poland is acknowledging the sanctions have had a negative effect on the Polish economy, they are considering escalating sanctions.

And who we are to prevent their nomination for the "Darwin award"? Although, it would be hard to outdone the Ukraine.

In an economic war between the EU+US and Russia, things are very similar to an economic war between Russia and the Ukraine.

Which is to say the former party has a massive economy compared to the latter, and makes up a large share of the latter's trade while the latter's share of the former's trade is small.