Russia hits West with food import ban in sanctions row

[The Latin Commonwealth]

The economic systems of the US and EU on one hand and Russia and China on the other are completely different.

In the US and EU corporations effectively control the government so that political and economic decisions are made to the benefit of the elite who control the major businesses. Ordinary people have no real choice in the major decisions and work so that the ultra rich can get richer.

In Russia and China the people control the government and so corporations work to benefit society in general. The wealth created by the economic growth of these societies is spread fairly among the population which is why economic and social equality is so much greater in Russia and China than supposedly "rich" countries.

While this should be true (and is mostly true where the western nations are concerned), reality sadly teaches that the economies of Russia and China are just as much focussed on the elite - who also care very little about the people.

Examples of a caring system like you paint could be found in South America a few decades ago, but sadly foreign "aid" destroyed them.

I know that well since I'm a Brazilian.
The inequality is smaller then on highly industrialized countries because these countries have either too many people for the richer to control most of the money ( China,India and somewhat Brazil ) or a population that is under control and a small percentage of rich people ( Russia,South Africa,Indonesia...).
The fact is that these countries will get like the highly industrialized countries with time.In our world,the rich generally get richer.

[The Alma Mater]

While this should be true (and is mostly true where the western nations are concerned), reality sadly teaches that the economies of Russia and China are just as much focussed on the elite - who also care very little about the people.

Examples of a caring system like you paint could be found in South America a few decades ago, but sadly foreign "aid" destroyed them.

I know that well since I'm a Brazilian.
The inequality is smaller then on highly industrialized countries because these countries have either too many people for the richer to control most of the money ( China,India and somewhat Brazil ) or a population that is under control and a small percentage of rich people ( Russia,South Africa,Indonesia...).
The fact is that these countries will get like the highly industrialized countries with time.In our world,the rich generally get richer.

Again: reality disagrees.
And in addition, being poor in China is much worse than being poor in the USA...

[The Ben Boys]

Oh, I get it! Instead of having a negative growth rate by emigration, Putin wants his country to look better by having a negative growth rate by starvation.

Seriously though, if he aims to hurt the massive U.S. agricultural market, it's not like there isn't literally billions more to feed. All he's doing is hurting his own country. Besides, last few times starvation hit Russia, there was a regime change.

[Napkiraly]

I honestly love how you think that the corporate economic system doesn't exist in China, Russia, or Brazil.

The economic systems of the US and EU on one hand and Russia and China on the other are completely different.

In the US and EU corporations effectively control the government so that political and economic decisions are made to the benefit of the elite who control the major businesses. Ordinary people have no real choice in the major decisions and work so that the ultra rich can get richer.

In Russia and China the people control the government and so corporations work to benefit society in general. The wealth created by the economic growth of these societies is spread fairly among the population which is why economic and social equality is so much greater in Russia and China than supposedly "rich" countries.

The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

[European Socialist Republic]

I honestly love how you think that the corporate economic system doesn't exist in China, Russia, or Brazil.

The economic systems of the US and EU on one hand and Russia and China on the other are completely different.

In the US and EU corporations effectively control the government so that political and economic decisions are made to the benefit of the elite who control the major businesses. Ordinary people have no real choice in the major decisions and work so that the ultra rich can get richer.

In Russia and China the people control the government and so corporations work to benefit society in general. The wealth created by the economic growth of these societies is spread fairly among the population which is why economic and social equality is so much greater in Russia and China than supposedly "rich" countries.

Sauce?

Because without sauce, I won't be able to swallow your bullshit.

[The Ben Boys]

In Russia and China the people control the government and so corporations work to benefit society in general. The wealth created by the economic growth of these societies is spread fairly among the population which is why economic and social equality is so much greater in Russia and China than supposedly "rich" countries.

Do you have any idea how much sheer corruption is within those two countries alone? True, the Russian and Chinese economy and society is vastly different from the West, but that's because Russia is the world's largest mafia state and China is the world's most corrupt pseudo-corporatist/communist collection of humans. In fact, these two countries are probably the most unequal societies in the world. I'm not even going to get started on Brazil.

[Rio Cana]

They say trade has doubled between Argentina and Russia.
Read this - http://telesurtv.net/english/news/Argen ... -0055.html

This on Brazil and Russia wanting to double current trade to $10 Billion.
Read this - http://www.eleconomistaamerica.com/poli ... jSPoEi25h1

[Grand Russian Federation]

Obviously Ukraine wants to be left alone. Putin would never do something like that.

Unfortunately, many people will support Russia because they "are taking a stand to the US."

Taking a stand to the United States doesn't mean that a country will be good. But on the Internet, I guess that's they way things work.

Unfortunately, wat?

Good doesn't matter, there's always a greater evil or greater good. Russia is the greater good in this case.

[The Alma Mater]

Unfortunately, many people will support Russia because they "are taking a stand to the US."

Taking a stand to the United States doesn't mean that a country will be good. But on the Internet, I guess that's they way things work.

Unfortunately, wat?

Good doesn't matter, there's always a greater evil or greater good. Russia is the greater good in this case.

You mean the lesser evil.

[Lalaki]

I honestly love how you think that the corporate economic system doesn't exist in China, Russia, or Brazil.

The economic systems of the US and EU on one hand and Russia and China on the other are completely different.

In the US and EU corporations effectively control the government so that political and economic decisions are made to the benefit of the elite who control the major businesses. Ordinary people have no real choice in the major decisions and work so that the ultra rich can get richer.

In Russia and China the people control the government and so corporations work to benefit society in general. The wealth created by the economic growth of these societies is spread fairly among the population which is why economic and social equality is so much greater in Russia and China than supposedly "rich" countries.

You see, this simply isn't the case. By many organizations, China has not been listed as a democracy. It is a one-party authoritarian state. The people do not control the government in Russia or China.

And I do not write this to defend the west.

[Arglorand]

Unfortunately, many people will support Russia because they "are taking a stand to the US."

Taking a stand to the United States doesn't mean that a country will be good. But on the Internet, I guess that's they way things work.

Unfortunately, wat?

Good doesn't matter, there's always a greater evil or greater good. Russia is the greater good in this case.

Russia is a country ruled by a schizophrenic homophobic midget playing on the drunken fantasies of sixty year old nostalgics about the USSR's "glory days" to grow his riches and power while his people are left shafted.

Russia is an arrogant former empire fapping to the memory of its conquests in its sleep, which intentionally fucks over relationships with its neighbours and then, when they announce to Russia that they are sick and tired of its antics and they're going far, far way, they get told that they're fascists, Russophobes, gay-jew-banderites, because how dare they live right next to Russia and try to define their own future without intervention. Then, to top things off, Zhirinovsky, Dugin et al start screaming in their choir to the Kremlin: "Bomb them. Bomb them. Bomb them."

It has done only a singular thing right in its history from 1945 and that's give asylum to Snowden.

I want Russia to go away behind a thick wall. It has literally no right to occupy or annex anything. Being a large country it has the responsibility of being careful with where they put their tanks. It has failed this responsibility over and over again and by God it isn't justifiable in any way.

[Imperializt Russia]

(Image)

Once again proving that invading something close to your people is good for morale.

Blair, Bush and co failed to find something to invade their people cared about.

Large border. Not enough border guards. Trucks, cars, boats. Don't gotta go by air. Maybe the Chechens could also help out...

Sure, and fuck themselves up.
Plus, well. as Shof said this can go in both directions, and I have great trust in Russian bioweaponry stores.

Why? Bioweaponry is shit.

[Lyttenburg]

Russia is a country ruled by a schizophrenic homophobic midget playing on the drunken fantasies of sixty year old nostalgics about the USSR's "glory days" to grow his riches and power while his people are left shafted.

Russia is an arrogant former empire fapping to the memory of its conquests in its sleep, which intentionally fucks over relationships with its neighbours and then, when they announce to Russia that they are sick and tired of its antics and they're going far, far way, they get told that they're fascists, Russophobes, gay-jew-banderites, because how dare they live right next to Russia and try to define their own future without intervention. Then, to top things off, Zhirinovsky, Dugin et al start screaming in their choir to the Kremlin: "Bomb them. Bomb them. Bomb them."

It has done only a singular thing right in its history from 1945 and that's give asylum to Snowden.

I want Russia to go away behind a thick wall. It has literally no right to occupy or annex anything. Being a large country it has the responsibility of being careful with where they put their tanks. It has failed this responsibility over and over again and by God it isn't justifiable in any way.

And my tipical reaction to such Pribalts' rant is to quote classics:

Слон и Моська

По улицам Слона водили,
Как видно напоказ -
Известно, что Слоны в диковинку у нас -
Так за Слоном толпы зевак ходили.

Отколе ни возьмись, навстречу Моська им.
Увидевши Слона, ну на него метаться,
И лаять, и визжать, и рваться,
Ну, так и лезет в драку с ним.
"Соседка, перестань срамиться,-
Ей шавка говорит,- тебе ль с Слоном возиться?
Смотри, уж ты хрипишь, а он себе идет
Вперед
И лаю твоего совсем не примечает".-

"Эх, эх! - ей Моська отвечает,-
Вот то-то мне и духу придает,
Что я, совсем без драки,
Могу попасть в большие забияки.
Пускай же говорят собаки:
"Ай, Моська! знать она сильна,
Что лает на Слона!"

[Pandeeria]

Unfortunately, many people will support Russia because they "are taking a stand to the US."

Taking a stand to the United States doesn't mean that a country will be good. But on the Internet, I guess that's they way things work.

Unfortunately, wat?

Good doesn't matter, there's always a greater evil or greater good. Russia is the greater good in this case.

Russia is a pseudo-authoritarian dirt hole with a idiotic, homophobic leader.

Russia should apologize, hand over Crimea, and feel bad about themselves. Though that will never happen.

[Lyttenburg]

Now, I actually like how a huge crowd of Westerners (and people from Russia's near abroad who kid themselves into being "Westerners") is universal in its no-brainer chorus of "Yeah! Russia gonna starve!"

I have this (rhetoric) question for such category of... people, I guess - have you been in Russia lately? And another one - do you know what ordinary Russians eat?

I'm just from my local store, so, lets look at maybe not 100% typicall stuff stuff that all Russians buy regularly, but what is close enough:

- Already cut white bread - produced locally.
- Cucumbers - there are tons of them in store, but I don't even need them - I have my own from dacha.
- Tomatos. - same as above.
- "Brest-Litovsk" Cheese - from Byelarus, Pinsk.
- Braised beef, first grade In can aka "Тушёнка" - Byelarus, Slutsk
- Sunflower oil "Golden Seed/Золотая Семечка" - Russian, from Rostov-on-Don.
- Ostankino's Sausages - Russia.
- Pasta horns "cellentani" - Russia, Tula.
- 10 eggs "Derevenskoye" - Russia, Belgorod.
- "Dobriy Multifruct" juice - Russia, Nizhniy Novgorod.
- "Crown of Siberia - Classic" 6-pack - Russia, Omsk. Yeah, that Omsk.
- "Petelinka" Frozen thighs of the broiler-chicken - Russia, Moscow oblast.
- "Vienna's salami" by Ostankino - Russia, Moscow.

And that's not counting apples, cabbages, cherries, plums, horseradish and various -berries from my dacha.

Of course, the one who would surely starve in Russia are the ones who can't live without such "common" and "staple" Western foodstuff, like coq au vin, petits fours, Sürkrüt, or drinks like Bordeaux or Beaujolais vines or centennial whiskey.

Plese, tell me how I gonna starve!

[Napkiraly]

Russia is a country ruled by a schizophrenic homophobic midget playing on the drunken fantasies of sixty year old nostalgics about the USSR's "glory days" to grow his riches and power while his people are left shafted.

Russia is an arrogant former empire fapping to the memory of its conquests in its sleep, which intentionally fucks over relationships with its neighbours and then, when they announce to Russia that they are sick and tired of its antics and they're going far, far way, they get told that they're fascists, Russophobes, gay-jew-banderites, because how dare they live right next to Russia and try to define their own future without intervention. Then, to top things off, Zhirinovsky, Dugin et al start screaming in their choir to the Kremlin: "Bomb them. Bomb them. Bomb them."

It has done only a singular thing right in its history from 1945 and that's give asylum to Snowden.

I want Russia to go away behind a thick wall. It has literally no right to occupy or annex anything. Being a large country it has the responsibility of being careful with where they put their tanks. It has failed this responsibility over and over again and by God it isn't justifiable in any way.

And my tipical reaction to such Pribalts' rant is to quote classics:

Слон и Моська

По улицам Слона водили,
Как видно напоказ -
Известно, что Слоны в диковинку у нас -
Так за Слоном толпы зевак ходили.

Отколе ни возьмись, навстречу Моська им.
Увидевши Слона, ну на него метаться,
И лаять, и визжать, и рваться,
Ну, так и лезет в драку с ним.
"Соседка, перестань срамиться,-
Ей шавка говорит,- тебе ль с Слоном возиться?
Смотри, уж ты хрипишь, а он себе идет
Вперед
И лаю твоего совсем не примечает".-

"Эх, эх! - ей Моська отвечает,-
Вот то-то мне и духу придает,
Что я, совсем без драки,
Могу попасть в большие забияки.
Пускай же говорят собаки:
"Ай, Моська! знать она сильна,
Что лает на Слона!"

Anglash.

[Napkiraly]

Unfortunately, wat?

Good doesn't matter, there's always a greater evil or greater good. Russia is the greater good in this case.

Russia is a pseudo-authoritarian dirt hole with a idiotic, homophobic leader.

Russia should apologize, hand over Crimea, and feel bad about themselves. Though that will never happen.

Well, in the foreseeable future anyway.

[Knask]

Of course, the one who would surely starve in Russia are the ones who can't live without such "common" and "staple" Western foodstuff, like coq au vin, petits fours, Sürkrüt, or drinks like Bordeaux or Beaujolais vines or centennial whiskey.

Alcohol isn't banned. Can't deprive the middle class of their French wine and Canadian whiskey.

[Lyttenburg]

Of course, the one who would surely starve in Russia are the ones who can't live without such "common" and "staple" Western foodstuff, like coq au vin, petits fours, Sürkrüt, or drinks like Bordeaux or Beaujolais vines or centennial whiskey.

Alcohol isn't banned. Can't deprive the middle class of their French wine and Canadian whiskey.

Really? Oh, well...

Still, the lack of tartes flambée, Escargots de Bourgogne, Spinacia a la Rouvres, meringue avec coco, risottos, salsiccias, cheese Dor Blu and kosher humus would undoubtedly cause an uprisng of Russian office plankton, hipsters with rich parents, resident westerner expats and liberalistical "общечеловеков".

And don't forget about Polish apples! If Pribalts actually answer to user Argoland's call and start eating them more and more - just to "support" Polish agro sector - it may cause a serious nation-wide diarrhea in their parts. Remember kids - eating too much of anything can be dangerous!

[Magna Libero]

Ha! That Putin guy is damaging his own plebs and slaves.

Time to overthrow the Russian government for the Russians, I assume? There just seems to be the problem that sheep are brainwashed by the government.

[Lyttenburg]

Russia is a pseudo-authoritarian dirt hole with a idiotic, homophobic leader.

Russia should apologize, hand over Crimea, and feel bad about themselves. Though that will never happen.

And now, please, do an incredible - prove that:

1) Russia is a "dirt hole".
2) Russian leader is idiotic.
3) Russina leader is homophobic.

Ha! That Putin guy is damaging his own plebs and slaves.

Office plankton and hipsters are now "plebs" and "slaves"?

Time to overthrow the Russian government for the Russians, I assume? There just seems to be the problem that sheep are brainwashed by the government.

I'm... actually, at a loss here. Are you even serious?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Time to overthrow the Russian government for the Russians, I assume? There just seems to be the problem that sheep are brainwashed by the government.

I'm... actually, at a loss here. Are you even serious?

I don't think he is, but then again this is NSG so who knows..

[Shofercia]

It's typical for a Ukrainian nationalist to talk about socioeconomic inequality within Russia

That's nice. I'm not a Ukrainian nationalist. I'm an American socialist who thinks nationalism is silly.

But don't let that get in the way of your rant.

Good one! You're the first "American Socialist" I know that thinks that giving away land on the basis of ethnicity, against the people's consent, is awesome, the first who'd prefer the American taxpayers to fund one Ukrainian Oligarch faction against another, and in some cases even their own people, while Detroit cannot even get water for some of their residents, the borders are a mess, Obamacare/healthcare is the symbol of incompetence and inefficiency, (also thanks to Republicans,) etc. But sure, you can be an "American Socialist" and I'll be Donald Trump.

they're suddenly showing such great care for the Russian lower and middle classes.

Let me underline, again, the basic point: When food prices rise, it increases socioeconomic inequality. It was true in 18th century France, 1st century Rome... 21st century Russia is not exempt.

Which in turn means it is spectacularly ironic for you to point to a rising middle class and rising food prices at the same time. The latter tends to impede the former.

You do realize that can have both, a rising middle class and rising food prices, right? The latter does tend to impede the former, but it doesn't mean that it would prevent the former from growth.

Of course they could ask their government to stop bombing stuff around the Russian border, since it's usually the poor in Russia who get hurt,

Do you know how many Russians in Russia have been killed?

As far as all news reports are concerned, one. One Russian civilian has been killed by artillery. Which may not have even been fired by Ukrainians.

Hmm, I wonder, if the SpetzNaz killed one Ukrainian Oligarch, would you also be so quaint?

but then the care suddenly vanishes. Thing is, the Russians know this is coming. We're ready for it. It's better to take a hit now, and tell the EU to fuck off with their sectoral sanctions, then to just keep on taking sanction after sanction after sanction.

See, it's attitudes like that which make me think that Putin isn't actually making a wrong political move - in terms of his domestic position. By "fighting back," he's scoring points, even if his method of fighting back is reminiscent of the Soviets' triumphant action against the Nazis in the summer of 1941.

Why, nearly one German tank was destroyed for every ten Soviet tanks destroyed!

The problem with your historical comparisons is that like Ukrainian Nationalists, you tend to completely ignore substantial differences. The reasons for those numbers were the purges/GULAG/collectivization, none of which occurred under Putin. Sure Putin went after Khodorkovsky, after the latter tried to steal from the Russian government, specifically Putin's faction. But quite a few others are still in place. Abramovich, who launched quality reforms in Kamchatka when Putin came to power, reforms that stabilized the region, is still there, and will be there for quite a while. Kudrin is kept on in an advisory capacity. I could easily drop more names of quality economists, but I made my point. You will, of course, continue to fearmonger.

Of course, the USSR had enormous reserves of manpower and supply to draw upon. Here, Putin is strutting about positioning himself to take 10:1 economic casualties while he has an economy less than a tenth the size of the people he's waging economic war with. But trade warfare doesn't work the same as military warfare - Putin can win politically (in terms of domestic policy) while losing horribly economically. Case in point: The Kim dynasty still has a solid grip on North Korea.

More fearmongering. I'd like a legitimate source for the 10:1 figure, since, knowing you, it just looks like a number you pulled out of your ass, solely to bring in North Korea.

One of the sanctioned banks happens to do quite a bit of development, so sanctioning that hurts the middle class, and our patience is nil. And if the agricultural sector can benefit - all the better! As for this increasing inequality - and? I'd take Putin's inequality over Yeltsin's, Gorbachev's, Brezhen's, Khrushchev's, Stalin's, Lenin's, Csar Nicolas', Csar Alexander's economics any day of the week. The economic conditions under Putin are above expectations for the Russians. Half of his current approval rating, if not more, comes from his management of the economy. We knew it wasn't going to keep on growing and growing and growing without a dip here and there. The Russians are ready. Kiev isn't. Is the EU? We'll find out in three months.

Most of his approval rating comes from the Russian economy having stayed largely healthy during his regime... and making sure that all of Russia's nouveau riche either support him or become ex-riche.

Obama has chosen to wage economic warfare against Putin. It's a very direct strike against Putin's power base.

Obama has chosen to use EU's funds to fight Russia. The EU is forced to fight Obama's Financial War against Russia over which Oligarchs get to rule Ukraine. Let's not forget that the EU is a democracy, and do you really think that Europeans are too keen on fighting for America with their very own money? Most of US/EU's warchests comes from the taxpayers. Tax in Russia is 13%. Equivalent in the US is 35%. It's even higher in most EU states. The Russian taxpayers, unlike the US/EU taxpayers, contribute very little to the warchests. Oh, and nearly all of Russia's sectors are either behind Putin or against the US/EU on this issue. The Russians see Poproshenko as a 1990s Russian Oligarch. The ones that fucked their country. Bring it.

I'll take mercantilism over whatever snake oil Poproshenko's selling, although I don't see Putin going to Africa and establishing overseas colonies. Thing is, the EU imposed sectoral sanctions. Sure, the EU can pretend otherwise, and call these sanctions the "shiny, happy, sanctions of joy", but the effect is sectoral. Russia's response is also sectoral. Furthermore, I was specifically talking about the agricultural sector.

Which represents a small (and not particularly healthy) sector of the Russian economy.

Awesome, then we should most definitely use this opportunity to improve it!

Is the commercial farmer really that much better?

More efficient and productive? Yes.

"Better"? Well, there's a movement in the US afoot to essentially move back to the yeoman farmer, on the grounds that local organic produce is the way to go. But it is more expensive.

And it also provides more jobs to more people who aren't illegal immigrants working in piss poor conditions for extremely low wages. You do know that illegals cost Californians $1.5 billion in healthcare alone, right?

I'm not talking about the yeoman farmer tilling the soil with the cotton gin. I'm talking about a yeoman farmer with modern technology and a small workforce. Most economic sectors work best when you have big companies, medium companies and small companies, all competing with one another. If all you have are a fuckton of "Farmer Johns Incorporated," that's not going to be good for the farming sector, because that will raise the barrier to entry to farmers with more innovative techniques. You need balance, not mass commercialization of everything in sight. In California, we're trying to figure out how to preserve the middle farming class, because if all you have are massive commercialized farms, what's the stop them from forming an oligopoly? It happened in the US with a certain sector, and said sector's lobbying for the Iraq War tipped the scales in favor of disaster.

Putin is not in the habit of promoting market competition. He's in the habit of squelching anything that looks like it might be funding political opposition, and providing unfair breaks to his supporters.

Basic fact remains: Saying that you're going to implement the Stolypin reforms to advance the agricultural sector is essentially nonsensical at this point. There's no reason to even try to pretend what you're doing is the same, because neither the starting point nor the ending point are remotely similar.

Putin is in the habit of promoting competition, he just wants to regulate it, because Russia had unregulated competition in the 1990s, and that failed. Miserably. Utterly. Totally. Completely. It was truly devastating. And again, by aiding the farming class, he's growing the farming sector in Russia.

France - 3 percent. Qatar - 1 percent.

In general. France exports food; Qatar imports food. Let's not be too silly, shall we?

Could Russia stand to benefit by modernizing its agriculture? Yes. Is this going to create a new politically stabilizing class? No, because Russia isn't backwards enough for the farming class to make up a major share of the population.

Russia has political stability. There's no need for another massive politically stabilizing class. 10% will do just fine.

Oh wow, I guess the French better fear that Qatari farming workforce, they're three times as efficient according to the standard that you just made up. Gaza's is 12 percent, which is substantially less than Ukraine's 17 percent. Then again, maybe Poroshenko's goal is to "catch up" to the Gazan standard. Latvia's 8 percent, Kosovo's 5 percent; is Kosovo that much more awesome than Latvia? I can do this all day, but here's the thing: as long as it's not subsistence farming, the percent of people being employed by the farming industry doesn't matter that much. The goal isn't to be super awesome and employ 2 percent of your people on the farms. The goal is to produce enough to feed your country and make a buck or two, (or a few million/billion,) for exports. And whether it's 2 percent, 4 percent or 8 percent, that doesn't really matter. You're coming up with all of these metrics, but you're missing the point: under the Putin Administration, the economy showed a massive improvement. It's currently stagnating and in 2008 it fell, and it recovered by 2010. The Russians did just fine in 2011 and in 2012 and in 2013.

And? Russia's economy was severely depressed before Putin took the reins, and some of that growth was recovery from disorganization and disaster in the early to mid 90s. Don't delude yourself into thinking Putin has magic pixie dust that will make the economy always grow.

I'm not. I'm a Keynesian. We know that economy is cyclical. It's what you do during the boom cycle that counts, and Putin used the boom cycles to improve Russia's demographics. That's a plus for him, irrespective of how much you despise him.

Now, the question is this: Will Putin back down, or will Putin fight an economic war with the EU + US until the Russian economy tanks?

That's not really the question. The question is how much bullshit will the EU working class tolerate to keep paying for Poproshenko's Clique to remain in power in Ukraine. And when the EU is pissed off enough to let Ukraine go, how much money is the US taxpayer willing to pony up? Those are the real questions. Russia has every reason to fight against these ridiculous sanctions. The US/EU are using them as an offensive weapon to keep a clique of pathetic Oligarchs in power in Ukraine. Let's see how long the Europeans/Americans will tolerate this crap. My guess is that after three months, EU will lift the sanctions and Russia will do the same, irrespective of what happens in Ukraine. Obomber can continue to spread liberal democracy, after all, he was so successful in Libya, that he had to withdraw the US embassy from their, a hallmark of success!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/af ... -1.1879521

Oh, and just an FYI: Americans are really tired of wasting taxpayer dollars on interventionism. Russia doesn't have to win. Russia just has to hold the line long enough and it'll be over. And Russians and Putin know this. So do you, which is why your fearmongering is getting more and more desperate, it's very cute to watch. 10:1 economic losses, North Korea, what's next? Are you going to threaten Russia with becoming a country that's in Ukraine's economic shape?

[Shofercia]

(Image)

Once again proving that invading something close to your people is good for morale.

Blair, Bush and co failed to find something to invade their people cared about.

Timely action in Guatemala could've prevented the current illegal immigration crisis in the US. Just saying

[Magna Libero]

Now, I actually like how a huge crowd of Westerners (and people from Russia's near abroad who kid themselves into being "Westerners") is universal in its no-brainer chorus of "Yeah! Russia gonna starve!"

I have this (rhetoric) question for such category of... people, I guess - have you been in Russia lately? And another one - do you know what ordinary Russians eat?

I'm just from my local store, so, lets look at maybe not 100% typicall stuff stuff that all Russians buy regularly, but what is close enough:

- Already cut white bread - produced locally.
- Cucumbers - there are tons of them in store, but I don't even need them - I have my own from dacha.
- Tomatos. - same as above.
- "Brest-Litovsk" Cheese - from Byelarus, Pinsk.
- Braised beef, first grade In can aka "Тушёнка" - Byelarus, Slutsk
- Sunflower oil "Golden Seed/Золотая Семечка" - Russian, from Rostov-on-Don.
- Ostankino's Sausages - Russia.
- Pasta horns "cellentani" - Russia, Tula.
- 10 eggs "Derevenskoye" - Russia, Belgorod.
- "Dobriy Multifruct" juice - Russia, Nizhniy Novgorod.
- "Crown of Siberia - Classic" 6-pack - Russia, Omsk. Yeah, that Omsk.
- "Petelinka" Frozen thighs of the broiler-chicken - Russia, Moscow oblast.
- "Vienna's salami" by Ostankino - Russia, Moscow.

And that's not counting apples, cabbages, cherries, plums, horseradish and various -berries from my dacha.

Of course, the one who would surely starve in Russia are the ones who can't live without such "common" and "staple" Western foodstuff, like coq au vin, petits fours, Sürkrüt, or drinks like Bordeaux or Beaujolais vines or centennial whiskey.

Plese, tell me how I gonna starve!

It's quite idiotic to restrict the free flow of goods. It's not very good for the economy. Basic econ, man.

Yeah, you're probably not going to die, but you're going to be poorer in wealth and experience (or someone else in Russia, you're Russian, right?), because there won't be the option of possibly cheaper foreign goods. How does your капуста суп taste like, by the way? Нормальный? My Russian grammar sucks by the way. So sorry for all the language abuse.

I'm not sure about exotic fruits, such as bananas. Are they targeted by this? It would be kind of symbolically hilarious if Russia won't have bananas. I think I'm the only one, who laughs at this.

It's kind of sad for me and the Finnish people to eat your products with Russian texts on them and with a delicious discount. For example I think a certain Finnish cheese is(has been with a net sales of 378 million euros in 2013?) relatively popular in Russia. I almost feel like a Nazi, who has stolen all the silvers from a Jewish family. Weird reference, but you get my point.