Russia hits West with food import ban in sanctions row

[Estado Paulista]

No one's gonna accept a business plan, especially one based on profiteering off war, written in leet.

lel

[Arglorand]

No one's gonna accept a business plan, especially one based on profiteering off war, written in leet.

lel

Honestly, knowing you, I was expecting more of a "challenge accepted"

[Azaflaza]

So russia appears to be considering cutting off EU and USA commercial airlines from flying over its territory, essentially blocking them off from some Asian nations, or at least making it more expensive to travel there with the longer flight paths. Looks like the food import ban was a precursor to more sanctions.

Now it's all well and good talking about how this will affect the west, but how would the rest of Asia react to this. It could impact many investment prospects in countries like china, South Korea and japan.

[Geilinor]

The trade war continues.

[Shaka-Zulu]

Yeah, and that was a mistake. Yes. That does not make it Ukraine's fault to suffer through all this shit it's going through.

At the time, it seemed like a good way to keep Russia from making unwanted claims to territory, however. Look, I'm sure you're our clever westerner who would have never given away his nukes, but being out of the area of threat is precisely why you are not at leisure to talk pompously about "if they only spent more on military this would not be happening!". Remember when Russia invaded Georgia? Yeah, there is no way in hell Georgia could have afforded a military spending high enough to repel Russia. No way in hell. Same is for Ukraine if Russia would begin an all-out invasion. It would be down entirely to guerilla fighting.

It's easy to talk about issues when you're not affected by them, but show some more sympathy.

^This. No matter how much you spend on defense, Russia can outspend you if you are Georgia/Moldova/Ukraine/other former Soviet state

If I may. Even without external help, Ukraine is still capable of putting up a good fight against Russia with the equipment that Ukraine currently has. Ukraine already has everything it needs to expel an invasion in terms of man power and equipment. What it truly lacks, is quality leadership that was tested in the fires of actual combat.

And, like Russia, Ukraine does have some battle hardened troops. Let us not forget that Ukrain's military forces participating in operations against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

In this wikipedia article under belligerents you will see Ukraine listed as active belligerent against both Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Enduring_Freedom

Ukraine also participated, actively, in the Iraq war against Saddam Hussein and Islamist terror groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Nati ... 80%93_Iraq

From these experiences the Ukrainians should have learned a thing or two about how to make things like IED's and engage in guerrilla as well as urban wafare.

[Estado Paulista]

lel

Honestly, knowing you, I was expecting more of a "challenge accepted"

I've never actually denied this challenge.

[Valaran]

^This. No matter how much you spend on defense, Russia can outspend you if you are Georgia/Moldova/Ukraine/other former Soviet state

If I may. Even without external help, Ukraine is still capable of putting up a good fight against Russia with the equipment that Ukraine currently has. Ukraine already has everything it needs to expel an invasion in terms of man power and equipment. What it truly lacks, is quality leadership that was tested in the fires of actual combat.

And, like Russia, Ukraine does have some battle hardened troops. Let us not forget that Ukrain's military forces participating in operations against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

In this wikipedia article under belligerents you will see Ukraine listed as active belligerent against both Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Enduring_Freedom

Ukraine also participated, actively, in the Iraq war against Saddam Hussein and Islamist terror groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Nati ... 80%93_Iraq

A good fight = / = equate victory by any means.


The Ukrainian equipment is outdated, while Russia is modernizing.
Its moral is to put it lightly, nonexistent, while some members' loyalty is uncertain at best.


What Ukraine would do is put Russia into an Afghanistan like situation, where the costs of invading and occupying the place outweigh any benefits. But that is a long term strategy and is mainly about insurgents rather than the army. The Ukrainian military couldn't stand up to Russia's whatsoever for very long.

[Antarticaria]

I'm not even sure the term "insurgency" would work for what would follow a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

More like absolute chaos.

Will the average Ukrainian want to resist? Unquestionably. Will many join or form militias?
Undoubtedly.

What you described will not happen, and didn't happen even in the face of the Nazis.
Mostly because Eastern Europe was busy welcoming the Nazis and collaborating in their atrocities.

If anything wouldn't the fight come from EU and Western powers supporting the ones who do pick up arms?

[Valaran]

Will the average Ukrainian want to resist? Unquestionably. Will many join or form militias?
Undoubtedly.

What you described will not happen, and didn't happen even in the face of the Nazis.
Mostly because Eastern Europe was busy welcoming the Nazis and collaborating in their atrocities.

If anything wouldn't the fight come from EU and Western powers supporting the ones who do pick up arms?

Nah the Europeans and the Americans wouldn't send military forces in. Everyone knows that it would escalate the situation beyond belief and cause a massive crisis.

What we would do is put Russia under considerable sanctions and supply weapons, but that would be it.

[Antarticaria]

If anything wouldn't the fight come from EU and Western powers supporting the ones who do pick up arms?

Nah the Europeans and the Americans wouldn't send military forces in.

I did not mean to sound as if I was meaning boots on the ground scenarios.

[Arglorand]

I'd like to be a slight bit of an optimist here and assume that an invasion is not going to happen, and suggest that we go back to discussing Empire Starves Back.

[Antarticaria]

I'd like to be a slight bit of an optimist here and assume that an invasion is not going to happen, and suggest that we go back to discussing Empire Starves Back.

Yes!

Empire Starves Back, Imagined by Walt Disney!.

[Valaran]

I'd like to be a slight bit of an optimist here and assume that an invasion is not going to happen, and suggest that we go back to discussing Empire Starves Back.

That would be a realist's approach as well. Everyone knows an invasion would be a catastrophe for both Ukraine and Russia.

[Geilinor]

EU food exports to Russia last year were worth 11.8bn euros (£9bn; $15.8bn) while US food exports to Russia were worth 972m euros (£772m; $1.3bn).

Putin, how do you expect to make up for $15.8 billion of food? Have fun with high food prices.

[Arglorand]

EU food exports to Russia last year were worth 11.8bn euros (£9bn; $15.8bn) while US food exports to Russia were worth 972m euros (£772m; $1.3bn).

Putin, how do you expect to make up for $15.8 billion of food? Have fun with high food prices.

See, Putin can afford higher food prices.

For the average Russian, things will not be so simple, but when's the last time Putin gave a fuck about that?

[Reddogkeno101]

EU food exports to Russia last year were worth 11.8bn euros (£9bn; $15.8bn) while US food exports to Russia were worth 972m euros (£772m; $1.3bn).

Putin, how do you expect to make up for $15.8 billion of food? Have fun with high food prices.

and even the slight possibility of famine!

[Imperializt Russia]

If anything wouldn't the fight come from EU and Western powers supporting the ones who do pick up arms?

Nah the Europeans and the Americans wouldn't send military forces in. Everyone knows that it would escalate the situation beyond belief and cause a massive crisis.

What we would do is put Russia under considerable sanctions and supply weapons, but that would be it.

And become hilarious hypocrites.

[Imperializt Russia]

Putin, how do you expect to make up for $15.8 billion of food? Have fun with high food prices.

and even the slight possibility of famine!

To reiterate - the Russian food market was appraised at somewhat over a quarter of a trillion USD - four years ago.
It can handle a 5% loss in western imports that can likely be easily replaced from elsewhere.

[Arglorand]

Nah the Europeans and the Americans wouldn't send military forces in. Everyone knows that it would escalate the situation beyond belief and cause a massive crisis.

What we would do is put Russia under considerable sanctions and supply weapons, but that would be it.

And become hilarious hypocrites.

Arguably what everyone's been ever since the first "We are terribly concerned" message during the days of the Maidan anyway, given how unwilling every large power was to act while playing at their games.

[Valaran]

Nah the Europeans and the Americans wouldn't send military forces in. Everyone knows that it would escalate the situation beyond belief and cause a massive crisis.

What we would do is put Russia under considerable sanctions and supply weapons, but that would be it.

And become hilarious hypocrites.

True. But when has that not been the case

[Imperializt Russia]

And become hilarious hypocrites.

True. But when has that not been the case

It hasn't and that's sort of the problem.

I'd rather that didn't continue. The mindset of "it's fine when the west does it".
It's an atrocious foreign policy, especially when the "international community" basically amounts to a pro-US anti-Russia circlejerk.

[Arglorand]

True. But when has that not been the case

It hasn't and that's sort of the problem.

I'd rather that didn't continue. The mindset of "it's fine when the west does it".
It's an atrocious foreign policy, especially when the "international community" basically amounts to a pro-US anti-Russia circlejerk.

This I agree with.

Double standards are terrible regardless of whom they are applied to.

[Blekksprutia]

Well, I'm sure that Russians will be content eating Russian asparagus.

[Shaka-Zulu]

If Russia invades Ukraine, that will be the bloody fucking end of Russia. Imagine a guerilla war across the entire territory of modern Ukraine, with all 40 million of those Ukrainians who are currently more pissed at that particular country than ever before taking up every weapon they can find from guns to rakes.

That's what a Russian invasion of Ukraine proper looks like.

It would be another Afghanistan look don't get me wrong I like Ukraine I wanted to visit Ukraine but now I cant. I honestly don't think Russias going to invade. now maybe in a few years because it would be best for them to let a civil war breakout and supply there side then invade when theyre about to win. I think it really does suck thought I wanted to go to Ukraine I have heard stories about the women.

My friends, you make mistake that Ukraine would be a push over without NATO military intervention. In reality, Ukraine on its own would quickly become Russia's Vietnam. Right now the Russian people are supporting Putin in the fight because he keeps winning and has not lost a single soldier. But when the media and the internet start showing photos and videos of dead Russian teenagers....well remember what happened during the Vietnam War when that happened in the USA. The public turned against the US invasion of Vietnam. The same will happen if Russia invades Ukraine.

[Shaka-Zulu]

No the fact YOU WILLING know your at risk and yet you continue to not do anything about it is amazingly dumb. Its like living in a forest with bears and not putting up a fence around your home because youd rather spend money on ice cream.

No, that analogy is shit. You're asking us to build not a fence, but a titanium wall, for which a) we don't have cash b) we won't be able to build a /house/. We are a member of NATO and as such we have built a fence and a house. Ukraine was unable to do that because it was for the past twenty years being screwed over by people playing with its sociopolitical emotions.

What country are you in? If you are in Poland then you should know that Poland also has battle hardened troops from participating in military operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, the sahara, Somalia and even the Phillipines. Unless Russia uses nuclear weapons, Poland would be an equal match for Russian forces.