Russia hits West with food import ban in sanctions row

[Trezchoix]

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lol you wont have houses then and governments don't "work" for the people ( but that's for another time ) Your nation should put emphasis on defense then unless you want to be a rooskie.

No, my nation should not have to fear Russia every minute of our lives. Your social darwinism disgusts me, I'm sorry to say.

No the fact YOU WILLING know your at risk and yet you continue to not do anything about it is amazingly dumb. Its like living in a forest with bears and not putting up a fence around your home and complain about the bears attack you because youd rather spend money on ice cream.

[Valaran]

So lets make sure we don't piss anybody off policy? wtf ?! no Ukraine needs to man up I mean ffs the soviets killed more Ukrainians than Germans did the Jewish people. It should be BURNED in there minds that this should NEVER happen again. But if they can forget that fast its even more there fault for not learning from history. ( btw guys Russia really shouldn't have invaded so Im not entirely bashing Ukraine )

They had considerable shared cultural ties, especially in the East. A large percentage consider themselves Ethnic Russians. Many view in a more complex light...

[Antarticaria]

So lets make sure we don't piss anybody off policy? wtf ?! no Ukraine needs to man up I mean ffs the soviets killed more Ukrainians than Germans did the Jewish people. It should be BURNED in there minds that this should NEVER happen again. But if they can forget that fast its even more there fault for not learning from history. ( btw guys Russia really shouldn't have invaded so Im not entirely bashing Ukraine )

If Russia does invade Ukraine. Its gonna get its ass mowed either directly or indirectly by every other Western power through either troops, or technology and economic support.

[Trezchoix]

So lets make sure we don't piss anybody off policy? wtf ?! no Ukraine needs to man up I mean ffs the soviets killed more Ukrainians than Germans did the Jewish people. It should be BURNED in there minds that this should NEVER happen again. But if they can forget that fast its even more there fault for not learning from history. ( btw guys Russia really shouldn't have invaded so Im not entirely bashing Ukraine )

Imagine that you've just been betrayed by a sibling.

That's how Ukraine feels right now. For all of their history, they thought Russia was a fraternal nation. No matter how much shit it did, they thought that.

Look what happened. It's naturally quite traumatic.

I don't know of any sibling that killed all my friends id have them put in jail....

[Valaran]

No, my nation should not have to fear Russia every minute of our lives. Your social darwinism disgusts me, I'm sorry to say.

No the fact YOU WILLING know your at risk and yet you continue to not do anything about it is amazingly dumb. Its like living in a forest with bears and not putting up a fence around your home because youd rather spend money on ice cream.

Let me ask when did defense spending solve aggression?

Does it help Israel now?

Did it help the US prepare for 9/11?

The answer is while it helps, it doesn't solve the underlying problem.

[Valaran]

Imagine that you've just been betrayed by a sibling.

That's how Ukraine feels right now. For all of their history, they thought Russia was a fraternal nation. No matter how much shit it did, they thought that.

Look what happened. It's naturally quite traumatic.

I don't know of any sibling that killed all my friends id have them put in jail....

what jail will Russia go into willingly or otherwise?

[Arglorand]

No, my nation should not have to fear Russia every minute of our lives. Your social darwinism disgusts me, I'm sorry to say.

No the fact YOU WILLING know your at risk and yet you continue to not do anything about it is amazingly dumb. Its like living in a forest with bears and not putting up a fence around your home because youd rather spend money on ice cream.

No, that analogy is shit. You're asking us to build not a fence, but a titanium wall, for which a) we don't have cash b) we won't be able to build a /house/. We are a member of NATO and as such we have built a fence and a house. Ukraine was unable to do that because it was for the past twenty years being screwed over by people playing with its sociopolitical emotions.

[Valaran]

No the fact YOU WILLING know your at risk and yet you continue to not do anything about it is amazingly dumb. Its like living in a forest with bears and not putting up a fence around your home because youd rather spend money on ice cream.

No, that analogy is shit. You're asking us to build not a fence, but a titanium wall, for which a) we don't have cash b) we won't be able to build a /house/. We are a member of NATO and as such we have built a fence and a house. Ukraine was unable to do that because it was for the past twenty years being screwed over by people playing with its sociopolitical emotions.

^This.


Half of this current crisis was spawned by the fact Ukraine was about to sign a deal with the EU and NATO, before Putin told the old government not to. That was when the protests started.

[Arglorand]

So lets make sure we don't piss anybody off policy? wtf ?! no Ukraine needs to man up I mean ffs the soviets killed more Ukrainians than Germans did the Jewish people. It should be BURNED in there minds that this should NEVER happen again. But if they can forget that fast its even more there fault for not learning from history. ( btw guys Russia really shouldn't have invaded so Im not entirely bashing Ukraine )

If Russia does invade Ukraine. Its gonna get its ass mowed either directly or indirectly by every other Western power through either troops, or technology and economic support.

If Russia invades Ukraine, that will be the bloody fucking end of Russia. Imagine a guerilla war across the entire territory of modern Ukraine, with all 40 million of those Ukrainians who are currently more pissed at that particular country than ever before taking up every weapon they can find from guns to rakes.

That's what a Russian invasion of Ukraine proper looks like.

[Arglorand]

I don't know of any sibling that killed all my friends id have them put in jail....

what jail will Russia go into willingly or otherwise?

Hopefully, Nuremberg.

So it's a tribunal, not a jail. Who cares.

[Trezchoix]

No the fact YOU WILLING know your at risk and yet you continue to not do anything about it is amazingly dumb. Its like living in a forest with bears and not putting up a fence around your home because youd rather spend money on ice cream.

No, that analogy is shit. You're asking us to build not a fence, but a titanium wall, for which a) we don't have cash b) we won't be able to build a /house/. We are a member of NATO and as such we have built a fence and a house. Ukraine was unable to do that because it was for the past twenty years being screwed over by people playing with its sociopolitical emotions.

no its the exact same thing Ukraine should have spent more money on defense plain and simple you think NATO will help?!?!? that's a insane thought YOU NEVER rely on other people ESPICALLY nations for YOUR defense its ever bit of Ukraine's fault as it is Russias. I am neutral on the issue anyways its none of our business hell make money of the conflict.

[Arglorand]

No, that analogy is shit. You're asking us to build not a fence, but a titanium wall, for which a) we don't have cash b) we won't be able to build a /house/. We are a member of NATO and as such we have built a fence and a house. Ukraine was unable to do that because it was for the past twenty years being screwed over by people playing with its sociopolitical emotions.

no its the exact same thing Ukraine should have spent more money on defense plain and simple you think NATO will help?!?!? that's a insane thought YOU NEVER rely on other people ESPICALLY nations for YOUR defense its ever bit of Ukraine's fault as it is Russias. I am neutral on the issue anyways its none of our business hell make money of the conflict.

Personally, I think that before you make money, you should seriously work on improving your grammar.

No one's gonna accept a business plan, especially one based on profiteering off war, written in leet.

[Trezchoix]

If Russia does invade Ukraine. Its gonna get its ass mowed either directly or indirectly by every other Western power through either troops, or technology and economic support.

If Russia invades Ukraine, that will be the bloody fucking end of Russia. Imagine a guerilla war across the entire territory of modern Ukraine, with all 40 million of those Ukrainians who are currently more pissed at that particular country than ever before taking up every weapon they can find from guns to rakes.

That's what a Russian invasion of Ukraine proper looks like.

It would be another Afghanistan look don't get me wrong I like Ukraine I wanted to visit Ukraine but now I cant. I honestly don't think Russias going to invade. now maybe in a few years because it would be best for them to let a civil war breakout and supply there side then invade when theyre about to win. I think it really does suck thought I wanted to go to Ukraine I have heard stories about the women.

[Valaran]

If Russia invades Ukraine, that will be the bloody fucking end of Russia. Imagine a guerilla war across the entire territory of modern Ukraine, with all 40 million of those Ukrainians who are currently more pissed at that particular country than ever before taking up every weapon they can find from guns to rakes.

That's what a Russian invasion of Ukraine proper looks like.

It would be another Afghanistan look don't get me wrong I like Ukraine I wanted to visit Ukraine but now I cant. I honestly don't think Russias going to invade. now maybe in a few years because it would be best for them to let a civil war breakout and supply there side then invade when theyre about to win. I think it really does suck thought I wanted to go to Ukraine I have heard stories about the women.

Yeah has too much to lose by invading directly and they know it. They will just feed the disorder instead.

[Trezchoix]

no its the exact same thing Ukraine should have spent more money on defense plain and simple you think NATO will help?!?!? that's a insane thought YOU NEVER rely on other people ESPICALLY nations for YOUR defense its ever bit of Ukraine's fault as it is Russias. I am neutral on the issue anyways its none of our business hell make money of the conflict.

Personally, I think that before you make money, you should seriously work on improving your grammar.

No one's gonna accept a business plan, especially one based on profiteering off war, written in leet.

I will tell you I anit 2 gud a tht dem ther speln stuff

[Valaran]

what jail will Russia go into willingly or otherwise?

Hopefully, Nuremberg.

So it's a tribunal, not a jail. Who cares.

Would be too much to ask for unfortunately.

[Imperializt Russia]

Its very dumb for both sides I really don't want another cold war. stay out of everyone's business who cares crimea was Russian then in soviet time breshnev ( I think ) gave it to Ukraine ( or maybe it was kruchev) I don't know. But if the Ukrainian people in the east want to leave let them. Besides what doesn't make ANY sense to me is the fact all these ex-soviet states are scared shitless about a invasion. Yet NONE of them spend a decent amount on defense. If you have a problem and are worried about a invasion you should have spent more money on your military. If they to are invaded its there fault for not taking the proper precautions.

If you are invaded by the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, that's your problem now.

Stay classy, NSG.

Also, terrorists who literally come and drive over from Russia are not Ukrainian people in the east.

It's not six Ukrainians and four Shock Armies of the Russian Ground Forces.

It is certainly Russian-backed, but it is a Ukrainian movement.

[Arglorand]

It would be another Afghanistan look don't get me wrong I like Ukraine I wanted to visit Ukraine but now I cant. I honestly don't think Russias going to invade. now maybe in a few years because it would be best for them to let a civil war breakout and supply there side then invade when theyre about to win. I think it really does suck thought I wanted to go to Ukraine I have heard stories about the women.

Yeah has too much to lose by invading directly and they know it. They will just feed the disorder instead.

That's the thing. It very well knows that it's profitable for it to keep Ukraine in as much disorder as possible rather than involve itself in financing an actual occupation.

Russia needs Ukraine to remain a docile, disorganised borderline failed state. It has no interest in stability; stability would only result in the spread of the dissenting idea among liberal circles in Moscow that, holy shit, it's possible for an East Slavic nation to do things differently from Russia. To develop a democratic, prosperous society like the other Central European states have done after the fall of the Soviet system. Which is not okay for Putin, at all. Not to mention it needs to show its own people an example of what happens when the nation decides to take matters into its own hands and remove a president gone rogue, lest they attempt it themselves.

[Imperializt Russia]

If Russia does invade Ukraine. Its gonna get its ass mowed either directly or indirectly by every other Western power through either troops, or technology and economic support.

If Russia invades Ukraine, that will be the bloody fucking end of Russia. Imagine a guerilla war across the entire territory of modern Ukraine, with all 40 million of those Ukrainians who are currently more pissed at that particular country than ever before taking up every weapon they can find from guns to rakes.

That's what a Russian invasion of Ukraine proper looks like.

Apart from that's not what any insurgency looks like.

[Lalaki]

I sincerely hope that in the end, Ukraine joins the European Union. Both sides aren't perfect, but I'd say Northern/Western Europe have far better records on democracy and human rights than nations under Russia's policies and influence.

[Arglorand]

If Russia invades Ukraine, that will be the bloody fucking end of Russia. Imagine a guerilla war across the entire territory of modern Ukraine, with all 40 million of those Ukrainians who are currently more pissed at that particular country than ever before taking up every weapon they can find from guns to rakes.

That's what a Russian invasion of Ukraine proper looks like.

Apart from that's not what any insurgency looks like.

I'm not even sure the term "insurgency" would work for what would follow a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

More like absolute chaos.

[Imperializt Russia]

Apart from that's not what any insurgency looks like.

I'm not even sure the term "insurgency" would work for what would follow a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

More like absolute chaos.

Will the average Ukrainian want to resist? Unquestionably. Will many join or form militias?
Undoubtedly.

What you described will not happen, and didn't happen even in the face of the Nazis.
Mostly because Eastern Europe was busy welcoming the Nazis and collaborating in their atrocities.

[Valaran]

I sincerely hope that in the end, Ukraine joins the European Union. Both sides aren't perfect, but I'd say Northern/Western Europe have far better records on democracy and human rights than nations under Russia's policies and influence.

Agreed


(in short this my ideal view as well)

[Arglorand]

I'm not even sure the term "insurgency" would work for what would follow a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

More like absolute chaos.

Will the average Ukrainian want to resist? Unquestionably. Will many join or form militias?
Undoubtedly.

What you described will not happen, and didn't happen even in the face of the Nazis.
Mostly because Eastern Europe was busy welcoming the Nazis and collaborating in their atrocities.

Granted, and true enough. People are quick to change skins when their lives are at stake. We're even seeing something like that in Eastern Ukraine as we speak, where people from both sides switch over to the other or desert entirely.

[Shaka-Zulu]

Actually it is just Ukraine, Georgia and the Baltic States that are against Russia. All of the other former Soviet states have taken Russia's side.

Moldova, interestingly, is neutral for the time being.

Don't forget Poland is anti Russia here, and most of the Soviet controlled central Europe aren't exactly happy with Russia (with the exception of Hungary).


Moldova has it hands tied over the break away region (Russian troops are still stationed there), and its trade goes principally to Russia.


Also note that most of the former Soviet states were pretty happy to leave. Most of the European ones have now joined the EU. And in Asia they are now building oil lines to China, housing NATO bases for Afghanistan and even tuning off a certain oil pipeline to Russian allies there.

Neither Poland nor Afghanistan were ever Soviet States. They were always independent entities with their own governments and foreign policies.

Also, only one central asian ex soviet republic is providing a base for NATO forces operating against the Taliban and that country has imposed serious restrictions on the Americans\Europeans while Russian military forces have more freedom of movement in said country. Further that nation has limited NATO to one base and the rule is that it can only be used for logistics operations.

For the split up, you have to remember that Russia also seceded from the Soviet Union. The order of secession was the Baltic States, Azerbaijan, followed by Ukraine. The rest of the Soviet States did not become independent until later. Indeed, in 1991 a referendum held throughout remaining Soviet territory showed that the Soviet people wanted to maintain the Soviet Union in a softer format. Over 76% of Soviet citizens voted to retain the union. In each of the remaining republics, the vast majority of people voted to keep the USSR going in a more democratized format than existed at the time. Interestingly, while it had not yet become independent, Ukraine participated in the referendum and the majority of Ukrainians voted to maintain the Soviet Union at the time. They would probably vote differently now.

The final dissolution of the Soviet Union came after the 1991 coup which scared Ukrainians into voting for independence. Without Ukraine there could be no USSR so it was decided to replace the USSR with a freer more open CIS which we are dealing with today and which Ukraine is now in the process of leaving.