Russia hits West with food import ban in sanctions row

[Valaran]

heh

And of course the Pope's refusal to do this manly act lead inexplicably but inevitably to the Reformation (around this time) *reads in a respected historian voice*

Bet Francis would have done it.


Also I do love how we totally threadjacked it. This topic is much cooler anyway.

Methinks we should stop threadjacking, though, and move this to TG before Farn hits us with a hammer for very sensible reasons.

I think that is a very sensible suggestion. a little fun is good and i did find Putin's latest actions very hard to take seriously... but Farn's already sent men after me once on this thread

[Arglorand]

The Russians are going to starve.
It seems the majority of ordinary Russians support the ban and aren't terribly concerned.

It's important to remember that Russia at one time was a net exporter. They can fend for themselves.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/putin-ban-food-imports-russian-shoppers-respond

"Others, however, immediately took to social media to lambast the import ban, with some re-tweeting an internet survey that asked people which they valued more, "Crimea or cheese?". A reported 64% chose cheese."

Very sensible of them. I knew the majority aren't as dumb as Dmitry Kiselyov.

[Valaran]

The Russians aren't going to starve.
It seems the majority of ordinary Russians support the ban and aren't terribly concerned.

It's important to remember that Russia at one time was a net exporter. They can fend for themselves.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/putin-ban-food-imports-russian-shoppers-respond

I don't believe anyone said they would starve. The ban is detrimental/ineffective for other reasons. Namely, its inconsequential, won't hurt most western exports at all (with the exception of some of the smaller nations in East Europe), and has no benefit to Russia apart from potentially raising food prices.

Its merely a rather silly/senseless propaganda move, and everyone knows it. (See Aglorand's post above)

[Arglorand]

won't hurt most western exports at all (with the exception of some of the smaller nation sin East Europe)

On that note, #EatPolishApples.

Because Russia, those poor guys, don't have this delish anymore. I'll eat twice my weight in apples just to show my solidarity with their buckwheat.

[Valaran]

won't hurt most western exports at all (with the exception of some of the smaller nation sin East Europe)

On that note, #EatPolishApples.

Because Russia, those poor guys, don't have this delish anymore. I'll eat twice my weight in apples just to show my solidarity with their buckwheat.

I read somewhere (I think it was the economist) that Poland is the largest apple exporter/grower in Europe. So I probably already do


Russia will be missing out.

[Nervium]

The Russians aren't going to starve.
It seems the majority of ordinary Russians support the ban and aren't terribly concerned.

It's important to remember that Russia at one time was a net exporter. They can fend for themselves.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/putin-ban-food-imports-russian-shoppers-respond

I don't believe anyone said they would starve. The ban is detrimental/ineffective for other reasons. Namely, its inconsequential, won't hurt most western exports at all (with the exception of some of the smaller nations in East Europe), and has no benefit to Russia apart from potentially raising food prices.

Its merely a rather silly propaganda move, and everyone knows it. (See Aglorand's post above)

It actually will.
I mean, the Belgian fruit, diary and pork producers are holding wood as we speak because they normally (with the exception of the pork industry) export alot to the Motherland.

However, it will also rock the local Russian markets because of rising food prices.

[Valaran]

I don't believe anyone said they would starve. The ban is detrimental/ineffective for other reasons. Namely, its inconsequential, won't hurt most western exports at all (with the exception of some of the smaller nations in East Europe), and has no benefit to Russia apart from potentially raising food prices.

Its merely a rather silly propaganda move, and everyone knows it. (See Aglorand's post above)

It actually will.
I mean, the Belgian fruit, diary and pork producers are holding wood as we speak because they normally (with the exception of the pork industry) export alot to the Motherland.

However, it will also rock the local Russian markets because of rising food prices.

Fair enough. (Though I did allow some leeway for actual effects in my earlier post.)

But the underlying point remains true: the ban is largely ineffective at best, and counterproductive at worst.

[Aurinsula]

As a Chinese, I welcome this new move. Sure, this will cause our domestic prices to go up, but the farmers could use a bit more skrilla; things haven't been going their way for a while. And hey, anything to get Russia even more in our pockets... It never fails to amaze me how the Russians seem to think they're in the driver's seat in this particular partnership; the Chinese are absolutely setting the tempo. We're even making them buy Renminbi to pay us with!

[Valaran]

As a Chinese, I welcome this new move. Sure, this will cause our domestic prices to go up, but the farmers could use a bit more skrilla; things haven't been going their way for a while. And hey, anything to get Russia even more in our pockets... It never fails to amaze me how the Russians seem to think they're in the driver's seat in this particular partnership; the Chinese are absolutely setting the tempo. We're even making them buy Renminbi to pay us with!

^This. Good business for China. Just like that gas deal; the Chinese have the stronger hand when dealing with Russia.

[Arglorand]

As a Chinese, I welcome this new move. Sure, this will cause our domestic prices to go up, but the farmers could use a bit more skrilla; things haven't been going their way for a while. And hey, anything to get Russia even more in our pockets... It never fails to amaze me how the Russians seem to think they're in the driver's seat in this particular partnership; the Chinese are absolutely setting the tempo. We're even making them buy Renminbi to pay us with!

^This. Good business for China. Just like that gas deal; the Chinese have the stronger hand when dealing with Russia.

That particular relationship is one of those where Russia keeps behaving all macho and tough in public but turns shy and submissive in the bedroom.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

won't hurt most western exports at all (with the exception of some of the smaller nation sin East Europe)

On that note, #EatPolishApples.

No, don't. Or not more than normal, in any case.

If the Polish want to show Russia they're big players, they need to suck up the consequences of the sanctions that they voted for.

[Arglorand]

On that note, #EatPolishApples.

No, don't. Or not more than normal, in any case.

If the Polish want to show Russia they're big players, they need to suck up the consequences of the sanctions that they voted for.

That's nonsensical logic.

An inherent part of showing Russia that Poland is a country too is eating better apples than them. That is, Polish apples.

And as a fan of eating better apples than Russia I will eat Polish apples, I swear on the name of Geralt of Rivia, or as he is known in the Polish government, Radoslaw Sikorski.

[Timmy City]

Som while there are international sanctions on Iran, the US and EU still allow foodstuffs to be exported to Iran and Iran allows this. Yet the Russians, ban all most Western foodstuffs. This makes no logical sense.

[Shaka-Zulu]

I put this in the Ukraine thread because I did not know about this one but the markets in the USA and Europe are reacting negatively over this news.

Stocks in the USA and Europe have dropped significantly on the news of the Russian sanctions against Europe and other western nations and are expected to continue dropping as the trade war continues to impede international trade and tensions over Ukraine threaten to escalate into all out war.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/ ... C820140807

[Trezchoix]

Its very dumb for both sides I really don't want another cold war. stay out of everyone's business who cares crimea was Russian then in soviet time breshnev ( I think ) gave it to Ukraine ( or maybe it was kruchev) I don't know. But if the Ukrainian people in the east want to leave let them. Besides what doesn't make ANY sense to me is the fact all these ex-soviet states are scared shitless about a invasion. Yet NONE of them spend a decent amount on defense. If you have a problem and are worried about a invasion you should have spent more money on your military. If they to are invaded its there fault for not taking the proper precautions.

[Shaka-Zulu]

that's a hellalotta food not being provided to the Russian people.

In the short term yes. Economists are expecting the slack to be picked up by countries in Africa and Latin America who are eager to seize the trade slots vacated by the western countries as a means of boosting their own economies at the expense of the Americans and Europeans.

This why it is dumb to refer to European sanctions against Russia as "global sanctions against Russia" because there are a lot of non European nations who would love for trade between the west and the Russians to end so they can step in and take Europe's place.

[Arglorand]

Its very dumb for both sides I really don't want another cold war. stay out of everyone's business who cares crimea was Russian then in soviet time breshnev ( I think ) gave it to Ukraine ( or maybe it was kruchev) I don't know. But if the Ukrainian people in the east want to leave let them. Besides what doesn't make ANY sense to me is the fact all these ex-soviet states are scared shitless about a invasion. Yet NONE of them spend a decent amount on defense. If you have a problem and are worried about a invasion you should have spent more money on your military. If they to are invaded its there fault for not taking the proper precautions.

If you are invaded by the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, that's your problem now.

Stay classy, NSG.

Also, terrorists who literally come and drive over from Russia are not Ukrainian people in the east.

[Trezchoix]

Its very dumb for both sides I really don't want another cold war. stay out of everyone's business who cares crimea was Russian then in soviet time breshnev ( I think ) gave it to Ukraine ( or maybe it was kruchev) I don't know. But if the Ukrainian people in the east want to leave let them. Besides what doesn't make ANY sense to me is the fact all these ex-soviet states are scared shitless about a invasion. Yet NONE of them spend a decent amount on defense. If you have a problem and are worried about a invasion you should have spent more money on your military. If they to are invaded its there fault for not taking the proper precautions.

If you are invaded by the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, that's your problem now.

Stay classy, NSG.

Also, terrorists who literally come and drive over from Russia are not Ukrainian people in the east.

the Ukrainians were dumb enough to GIVE away there nuclear arsenal....

[Shaka-Zulu]

Its very dumb for both sides I really don't want another cold war. stay out of everyone's business who cares crimea was Russian then in soviet time breshnev ( I think ) gave it to Ukraine ( or maybe it was kruchev) I don't know. But if the Ukrainian people in the east want to leave let them. Besides what doesn't make ANY sense to me is the fact all these ex-soviet states are scared shitless about a invasion. Yet NONE of them spend a decent amount on defense. If you have a problem and are worried about a invasion you should have spent more money on your military. If they to are invaded its there fault for not taking the proper precautions.

Actually it is just Ukraine, Georgia and the Baltic States that are against Russia. All of the other former Soviet states have taken Russia's side.

Moldova, interestingly, is neutral for the time being.

[Reddogkeno101]

Let's see how the enjoy their own sanctions when they have a famine.

[Trezchoix]

Its very dumb for both sides I really don't want another cold war. stay out of everyone's business who cares crimea was Russian then in soviet time breshnev ( I think ) gave it to Ukraine ( or maybe it was kruchev) I don't know. But if the Ukrainian people in the east want to leave let them. Besides what doesn't make ANY sense to me is the fact all these ex-soviet states are scared shitless about a invasion. Yet NONE of them spend a decent amount on defense. If you have a problem and are worried about a invasion you should have spent more money on your military. If they to are invaded its there fault for not taking the proper precautions.

If you are invaded by the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, that's your problem now.

Stay classy, NSG.

Also, terrorists who literally come and drive over from Russia are not Ukrainian people in the east.

for instance lets say you live in a small nation with a powerhouse nuclear armed nation by you. and you fear everyday of possible invasion wouldn't you spend more on your military? I know I would arm to the teeth and have as much military knowledge to at least kill as many as possible. but its insane and it IS there fault if they are invaded. Its absolutely NONE of our business at all what happens happens.

[Arglorand]

If you are invaded by the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, that's your problem now.

Stay classy, NSG.

Also, terrorists who literally come and drive over from Russia are not Ukrainian people in the east.

the Ukrainians were dumb enough to GIVE away there nuclear arsenal....

Yeah, and that was a mistake. Yes. That does not make it Ukraine's fault to suffer through all this shit it's going through.

At the time, it seemed like a good way to keep Russia from making unwanted claims to territory, however. Look, I'm sure you're our clever westerner who would have never given away his nukes, but being out of the area of threat is precisely why you are not at leisure to talk pompously about "if they only spent more on military this would not be happening!". Remember when Russia invaded Georgia? Yeah, there is no way in hell Georgia could have afforded a military spending high enough to repel Russia. No way in hell. Same is for Ukraine if Russia would begin an all-out invasion. It would be down entirely to guerilla fighting.

It's easy to talk about issues when you're not affected by them, but show some more sympathy.

[Valaran]

Its very dumb for both sides I really don't want another cold war. stay out of everyone's business who cares crimea was Russian then in soviet time breshnev ( I think ) gave it to Ukraine ( or maybe it was kruchev) I don't know. But if the Ukrainian people in the east want to leave let them. Besides what doesn't make ANY sense to me is the fact all these ex-soviet states are scared shitless about a invasion. Yet NONE of them spend a decent amount on defense. If you have a problem and are worried about a invasion you should have spent more money on your military. If they to are invaded its there fault for not taking the proper precautions.

Actually it is just Ukraine, Georgia and the Baltic States that are against Russia. All of the other former Soviet states have taken Russia's side.

Moldova, interestingly, is neutral for the time being.

Don't forget Poland is anti Russia here, and most of the Soviet controlled central Europe aren't exactly happy with Russia (with the exception of Hungary).


Moldova has it hands tied over the break away region (Russian troops are still stationed there), and its trade goes principally to Russia.


Also note that most of the former Soviet states were pretty happy to leave. Most of the European ones have now joined the EU. And in Asia they are now building oil lines to China, housing NATO bases for Afghanistan and even tuning off a certain oil pipeline to Russian allies there.

[Veroxia]

No, don't. Or not more than normal, in any case.

If the Polish want to show Russia they're big players, they need to suck up the consequences of the sanctions that they voted for.

That's nonsensical logic.

An inherent part of showing Russia that Poland is a country too is eating better apples than them. That is, Polish apples.

And as a fan of eating better apples than Russia I will eat Polish apples, I swear on the name of Geralt of Rivia, or as he is known in the Polish government, Radoslaw Sikorski.

This ^^

[Lunalia]

If you are invaded by the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, that's your problem now.

Stay classy, NSG.

Also, terrorists who literally come and drive over from Russia are not Ukrainian people in the east.

for instance lets say you live in a small nation with a powerhouse nuclear armed nation by you. and you fear everyday of possible invasion wouldn't you spend more on your military? I know I would arm to the teeth and have as much military knowledge to at least kill as many as possible. but its insane and it IS there fault if they are invaded. Its absolutely NONE of our business at all what happens happens.

Er.... You have to consider the possibility that if you were in charge of a small nation next to a powerhouse nuclear armed nation, you might be unwilling to potentially provoke the powerhouse nuclear armed nation by arming yourself to the teeth.