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Is genocide ever justified?

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Is genocide ever justified?

Yes
8
17%
No
39
83%
 
Total votes : 47

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Great Zionist Israel
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Is genocide ever justified?

Postby Great Zionist Israel » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:43 pm

A few days ago, in the Times of Israel, a blogger posted an op ed titled "Is Genocide Ever Justified?"

Unfortunately, the ToI cowed to left-liberal outrage and removed this post, however I think that it raises some very good points.

The full text can be found here: http://www.vox.com/2014/8/1/5959635/her ... st-backing

Judging by the numbers of casualties on both sides in this almost one-month old war one would be led to the conclusion that Israel has resorted to disproportionate means in fighting a far less- capable enemy. That is as far as what meets the eye. But, it's now obvious that the US and the UN are completely out of touch with the nature of this foe and are therefore not qualified to dictate or enforce the rules of this war - because when it comes to terror there is much more than meets the eye.

I wasn't aware of this, but it seems that the nature of warfare has undergone a major shift over the years. Where wars were usually waged to defeat the opposing side, today it seems - and judging by the number of foul calls it would indicate - that today's wars are fought to a draw. I mean, whoever heard of a timeout in war? An NBA Basketball game allows six timeouts for each team during the course of a game, but last I checked this is a war! We are at war with an enemy whose charter calls for the annihilation of our people. Nothing, then, can be considered disproportionate when we are fighting for our very right to live.

The sad reality is that Israel gets it, but its hands are being tied by world leaders who over the past six years have insisted they are such good friends with the Jewish state, that they know more regarding its interests than even they do. But there's going to have to come a time where Israel feels threatened enough where it has no other choice but to defy international warnings - because this is life or death.

Most of the reports coming from Gazan officials and leaders since the start of this operation have been either largely exaggerated or patently false. The truth is, it's not their fault, falsehood and deceit is part of the very fabric of who they are and that will never change. Still however, despite their propensity to lie, when your enemy tells you that they are bent on your destruction you believe them. Similarly, when Khaled Meshal declares that no physical damage to Gaza will dampen their morale or weaken their resolve - they have to be believed. Our sage Gedalia the son of Achikam was given intelligence that Yishmael Ben Nesanyah was plotting to kill him. However, in his piety or rather naiveté Gedalia dismissed the report as a random act of gossip and paid no attention to it. To this day, the day following Rosh Hashana is commemorated as a fast day in the memory of Gedalia who was killed in cold blood on the second day of Rosh Hashana during the meal. They say the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over. History is there to teach us lessons and the lesson here is that when your enemy swears to destroy you - you take him seriously.

Hamas has stated forthrightly that it idealizes death as much as Israel celebrates life. What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?

News anchors such as those from CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera have not missed an opportunity to point out the majority of innocent civilians who have lost their lives as a result of this war. But anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian. If you'll counter, that Hamas has been seen abusing civilians who have attempted to leave their homes in response to Israeli warnings to leave - well then, your beginning to come to terms with the nature of this enemy which should automatically cause the rules of standard warfare to be suspended.

Everyone agrees that Israel has the right to defend itself as well as the right to exercise that right. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon has declared it, Obama and Kerry have clearly stated that no one could be expected to sit idle as thousands of rockets rain down on the heads of its citizens, placing them in clear and present danger. It seems then that the only point of contention is regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.

I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?


Honestly, I am inclined to agree. Israel has tried way more than it should to peacefully deal with hamas. However, nothing stops them and Hamas (who, you must remember, was democratically elected by the people of gaza) gleefully proclaims their love of bringing death: "we love death more than you love life", etc. I think that if Hamas continues to terrorize millions of Israelis, all options must remain on the table. Genocide should be an absolute last resort but if it proves to be truly necessary it should not be discarded without given a thorough consideration. Of course I hope that it doesn't have to come to that. I think that this discussion can also be applied more broadly, to situations outside of the Israeli/"Palestinian" conflict.

What is your opinion on this issue?
Last edited by Great Zionist Israel on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:45 pm

There's no need for Israel to start massacring Palestinians. The author of that article claims that falsehood is part of their identity and provides no evidence for it.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:46 pm

No. /thread.

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Margno
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Postby Margno » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:48 pm

No, it's never justified.
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The Sanguinian Islands
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Postby The Sanguinian Islands » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:48 pm

That's pretty sad.

After your people were killed, you know the Germans were scared of Jews too.
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Rio de Fuego
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Postby Rio de Fuego » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:48 pm

Hamas was not elected, the Palestinian authority was elected. This was the reasoning used by Al-Qaeda in the 911 attacks, that US voters were complicit with government misdeeds because they voted for them. It's is truly Ironic that a group of people who were nearly exterminated by fascists have turned to fascism and extermination in the one state predominately of that group.
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Upper America
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Postby Upper America » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:48 pm

No. Genocide should never be an option. You're killing hundreds of unarmed, innocent people who want nothing to do with whatever is going on. Whether it be like Hitler's Holocaust, Stalin's mass starvations, Pol Pot's forced labor, or just plain marching into a city and shooting anything that moves, it should never happen, and anyone found guilty of it punished severely.
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Vanale
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Postby Vanale » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:49 pm

Margno wrote:No, it's never justified.

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Persian Soviet Republics
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Postby Persian Soviet Republics » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:49 pm

This is just plain silly....

Having a 'Jewish' state doesn't even make any sense in the first place. What difference is that to the Nazi's 'Aryan' state? Hmm?

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The Flood
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Postby The Flood » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:51 pm

Maybe, if like, there was one person of a certain race left on the planet, and they were trying to kill your family and you, and you killed them in self defence?
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Rio de Fuego
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Postby Rio de Fuego » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:51 pm

Persian Soviet Republics wrote:This is just plain silly....

Having a 'Jewish' state doesn't even make any sense in the first place. What difference is that to the Nazi's 'Aryan' state? Hmm?

The issue with the Jewish seems to make anyone against Israel seem anti-Semitic, when the real problem is Zionism
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Great Zionist Israel
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Postby Great Zionist Israel » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:51 pm

Upper America wrote:No. Genocide should never be an option. You're killing hundreds of unarmed, innocent people who want nothing to do with whatever is going on. Whether it be like Hitler's Holocaust, Stalin's mass starvations, Pol Pot's forced labor, or just plain marching into a city and shooting anything that moves, it should never happen, and anyone found guilty of it punished severely.

That's not true, these so called "innocent people" 1) elected HAMAS and 2) shield Hamas rocket weapons in their homes.

The fact that they are illegally occupying rightful Israeli land also prevents them from being innocent.
Last edited by Great Zionist Israel on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rio de Fuego
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Postby Rio de Fuego » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:51 pm

The Flood wrote:Maybe, if like, there was one person of a certain race left on the planet, and they were trying to kill your family and you, and you killed them in self defence?

Like if you killed the last Shaker
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Maoville2
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Genocide

Postby Maoville2 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:52 pm

You think it raised some good points? what on Earth is wrong with you? Israel has violated every ceasefire attempt so far, specifically targeted hospitals,schools,children,and religious sites. It has refused to recognize Palestine sovereignty or even their right to exist. How ANYONE could support Israel through this is beyond me.

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Rio de Fuego
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Postby Rio de Fuego » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:52 pm

Great Zionist Israel wrote:
Upper America wrote:No. Genocide should never be an option. You're killing hundreds of unarmed, innocent people who want nothing to do with whatever is going on. Whether it be like Hitler's Holocaust, Stalin's mass starvations, Pol Pot's forced labor, or just plain marching into a city and shooting anything that moves, it should never happen, and anyone found guilty of it punished severely.

That's not true, these so called "innocent people" 1) elected HAMAS and 2) shield Hamas rocket weapons in their homes.

No the Palestinian authority is elected, not Hamas. They have never been proven complicit with Hamas attacks.
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Saruhan
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Postby Saruhan » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:52 pm

Ah yes. Never forget.
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Parhe
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Is genocide ever justified?

Postby Parhe » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:52 pm

Great Zionist Israel wrote:
Upper America wrote:No. Genocide should never be an option. You're killing hundreds of unarmed, innocent people who want nothing to do with whatever is going on. Whether it be like Hitler's Holocaust, Stalin's mass starvations, Pol Pot's forced labor, or just plain marching into a city and shooting anything that moves, it should never happen, and anyone found guilty of it punished severely.

That's not true, these so called "innocent people" 1) elected HAMAS and 2) shield Hamas rocket weapons in their homes.

The fact that they are illegally occupying rightful Israeli land also prevents them from being innocent.

Rightful in what way?
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:53 pm

Nope. Genocide isn't justified, ever.
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Postby Viritica » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:53 pm

Oy vey.

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The Peaceful Territories
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Postby The Peaceful Territories » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:53 pm

Persian Soviet Republics wrote:This is just plain silly....

Having a 'Jewish' state doesn't even make any sense in the first place. What difference is that to the Nazi's 'Aryan' state? Hmm?


Aryan is a race, and Judaism is a religion.

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Great Zionist Israel
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Postby Great Zionist Israel » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:53 pm

Maoville2 wrote:You think it raised some good points? what on Earth is wrong with you? Israel has violated every ceasefire attempt so far, specifically targeted hospitals,schools,children,and religious sites. It has refused to recognize Palestine sovereignty or even their right to exist. How ANYONE could support Israel through this is beyond me.

I support Israel because the so called "Palestinians" (keep in mind that they call themselves Philistines in their own language) are illegally occupying Israeli land and using it as a base from which to attack millions of innocent Israelis.
The Philistines should be removed from Israel and placed in Jordan.

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Upper America
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Postby Upper America » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:54 pm

Great Zionist Israel wrote:
Upper America wrote:No. Genocide should never be an option. You're killing hundreds of unarmed, innocent people who want nothing to do with whatever is going on. Whether it be like Hitler's Holocaust, Stalin's mass starvations, Pol Pot's forced labor, or just plain marching into a city and shooting anything that moves, it should never happen, and anyone found guilty of it punished severely.

That's not true, these so called "innocent people" 1) elected HAMAS and 2) shield Hamas rocket weapons in their homes.

You are giving israel a pretty crappy name right now.

1. Did they honestly know Hamas wanted to kill the Israelis?
2. Hamas has been accused of using citizens as human shields. Perhaps they're forcing the citizens to hide weapons? I would honestly trust a government over a bunch of terrorists.

By advocating this, you are no better than Adolf Hitler himself. Or any murderous person, at that.
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Rio de Fuego
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Postby Rio de Fuego » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:54 pm

The Peaceful Territories wrote:
Persian Soviet Republics wrote:This is just plain silly....

Having a 'Jewish' state doesn't even make any sense in the first place. What difference is that to the Nazi's 'Aryan' state? Hmm?


Aryan is a race, and Judaism is a religion.

I believe he means in that it represents a single group, even if that group doesn't what to be represented by them.
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Saruhan
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Postby Saruhan » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:54 pm

Great Zionist Israel wrote:
Upper America wrote:No. Genocide should never be an option. You're killing hundreds of unarmed, innocent people who want nothing to do with whatever is going on. Whether it be like Hitler's Holocaust, Stalin's mass starvations, Pol Pot's forced labor, or just plain marching into a city and shooting anything that moves, it should never happen, and anyone found guilty of it punished severely.

That's not true, these so called "innocent people" 1. 1) elected HAMAS and 2) 2. shield Hamas rocket weapons in their homes.

The fact that they are illegally occupying rightful Israeli land also prevents them from being innocent.

1. I seem to remember the outfits that became the IDF and Mossad were terrorist groups too, used suicide bombers and everything
2. This has NEVER been proven. After they're hit, these civilian houses have never had secondary blasts, which would signify an arms depot
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Great Zionist Israel
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Postby Great Zionist Israel » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:54 pm

Merizoc wrote:No. /thread.

Margno wrote:No, it's never justified.

Vanale wrote:
Margno wrote:No, it's never justified.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Nope. Genocide isn't justified, ever.

Why not?
The Philistines should be removed from Israel and placed in Jordan.

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