The Mod-Sanctioned Scottish Referendum Megathread

[Alyakia]

they literally tried to call scotland north britian. it's not controversial that they tried to build a british identity. not in the slightest.

they called it the kingdom of great britain. they named it directly after the geographical entity, to make it clear they controlled all of it. ireland called themselves ireland, no republic, to make it clear they considered all of ireland theirs. this was quite a problem until right up until the belfast agreement. again, the idea that names mean things and people deliberately choose certain names for certain reasons is not controversial. (see also: china). it's also, now that i think about it, quite hilarious that you think they couldn't know about scottish nationalists. you're aware that they, uh, had them, right?

as for why they didn't create a kingdom of the british isles, you'd have to ask them. for all i know they didn't want to call the irish british. i think that was back before irish people were officially considered white.

Don't the Scottish vote today

already done

[Voltrovia]

Plot twist: A war between Transnistria and the newly formed Netherlands-Scotland breaks out!!!

[OMGeverynameistaken]

BBC is reporting a 97% voter turnout. It's nice to see that voting on things like independence will get people off their couches.

[Ainin]

...

You would continue to have a congress, only instead of a president you would have Queen Elizabeth II.

And congress would then nominate a prime-minister

Wow, so we get the useless expense of a ceremonial monarchy, the additional degree of separation between the people and government, and we get to keep the complete and utter incompetence of Congress, all in one nifty package? What's not to hate?

Well you'd practically have no upper house anymore, which would probably be good for the whole Congress inaction thing.

[The Nihilistic view]

Wow, so we get the useless expense of a ceremonial monarchy, the additional degree of separation between the people and government, and we get to keep the complete and utter incompetence of Congress, all in one nifty package? What's not to hate?

Well you'd practically have no upper house anymore, which would probably be good for the whole Congress inaction thing.

Yeah it would. Mind you congress seems designed specifically to result in inaction.

[The Saint James Islands]

BBC is reporting a 97% voter turnout. It's nice to see that voting on things like independence will get people off their couches.

Even for a referendum like this, that seems a tad... high...

[Angleter]

BBC is reporting a 97% voter turnout. It's nice to see that voting on things like independence will get people off their couches.

97% registered to vote. Turnout is expected to be somewhere around 90%.

[The House of Xavier]

BBC is reporting a 97% voter turnout. It's nice to see that voting on things like independence will get people off their couches.

Even for a referendum like this, that seems a tad... high...

I thought turnout was around 87%

http://www.bbc.com/news/events/scotland-decides/results

I thought the 97% indicated eligibility.

[Ainin]

BBC is reporting a 97% voter turnout. It's nice to see that voting on things like independence will get people off their couches.

Erm, I find that highly unlikely.

[Alyakia]

turnout the BBC keeps saying

orkney: 84%
clannmarkshire: 87%

[OMGeverynameistaken]

BBC is reporting a 97% voter turnout. It's nice to see that voting on things like independence will get people off their couches.

97% registered to vote. Turnout is expected to be somewhere around 90%.

Ah, right, I misread the infographic.

Still, that's pretty amazing.

[Voltrovia]

Plot twist: A war between Transnistria and the newly formed Netherlands-Scotland breaks out!!!

On a more serious note, Salmond's plan to join NATO remains in jeopardy in light of his defence pledges. As far as the plans themselves are concerned, even if AS gets all that he's asking for (a full Typhoon squadron, a full Tornado squadron, half a squadron of Chinooks, and a "4,700" men's worth of equipment from the British Army, which will probably mean a brigade's worth of infantry equipment with the worst IFVs, tanks and artillery the MoD can find to attach to the unit. Yes would also like "two naval squadrons"), much of which it's quite likely he won't get. Even if iScotland did, the air force and navy would be extremely lacking in terms of the kinds of extensive capabilities Salmond talks about the SDF having, while the Scottish Army would not be much different from a militia force.

[Yes supporters, even if you don't rate defence particularly highly as a voting issue, I object to the Yes campaign claiming it can forge a genuinely capable Scottish Defence Force when such claims are very difficult to believe. Not that Scotland will be getting into any wars with Transnistria any time soon!]

[Angleter]

Someone in Canada's come up with a benchmarks table for what Yes needs in each council area (obviously if it does better in one it can afford an under par perfomance in another) to win. Interesting, anyway.

[The Nihilistic view]

Someone in Canada's come up with a benchmarks table for what Yes needs in each council area (obviously if it does better in one it can afford an under par perfomance in another) to win. Interesting, anyway.

That's very interesting. Might keep this open.

[Alyakia]

In Glasgow there have been allegations of electoral fraud, Sky News reports. There were claims that, in 10 cases, people tried to represent someone who had already voted. The police have been called in and some ballot papers are being removed from ballot boxes so they can be investigated.

[Imperializt Russia]

Plot twist: A war between Transnistria and the newly formed Netherlands-Scotland breaks out!!!

On a more serious note, Salmond's plan to join NATO remains in jeopardy in light of his defence pledges. As far as the plans themselves are concerned, even if AS gets all that he's asking for (a full Typhoon squadron, a full Tornado squadron, half a squadron of Chinooks, and a "4,700" men's worth of equipment from the British Army, which will probably mean a brigade's worth of infantry equipment with the worst IFVs, tanks and artillery the MoD can find to attach to the unit. Yes would also like "two naval squadrons"), much of which it's quite likely he won't get. Even if iScotland did, the air force and navy would be extremely lacking in terms of the kinds of extensive capabilities Salmond talks about the SDF having, while the Scottish Army would not be much different from a militia force.

[Yes supporters, even if you don't rate defence particularly highly as a voting issue, I object to the Yes campaign claiming it can forge a genuinely capable Scottish Defence Force when such claims are very difficult to believe. Not that Scotland will be getting into any wars with Transnistria any time soon!]

Nothing has been thought through.
Nothing is guaranteed.
Everything has been handwaved or dismissed like a bad II RP.

Why the fuck has anyone voted for independence?

[Alyakia]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx2khkkCUAA92K3.jpg

also i'm not sure if this means anything at all, but it still looks funny (yee is the top box, no is the bottom)

[Olivaero]

Soi come on then Alyakia why didn't when the UK was formed it get called the United Kingdom of the British Isles? I mean surely if your logic is to be believed they saw forwards a couple of hundred years and named themselves in such a way that it would spite future nationalists who they couldn't know about. Yeah, we're the ones with a hilarious belief.

they literally tried to call scotland north britian. it's not controversial that they tried to build a british identity. not in the slightest.

they called it the kingdom of great britain. they named it directly after the geographical entity, to make it clear they controlled all of it. ireland called themselves ireland, no republic, to make it clear they considered all of ireland theirs. this was quite a problem until right up until the belfast agreement. again, the idea that names mean things and people deliberately choose certain names for certain reasons is not controversial. (see also: china). it's also, now that i think about it, quite hilarious that you think they couldn't know about scottish nationalists. you're aware that they, uh, had them, right?

as for why they didn't create a kingdom of the british isles, you'd have to ask them. for all i know they didn't want to call the irish british. i think that was back before irish people were officially considered white.

The first noted use of it was by a scot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Britain when he inherited the crowns of England and Wales. The Isle of Great Britain was called so before the UK was formed, Maybe they named it the same thing to spite seperatists I wasn't in the room at the time and frankly neither were you. They named the country after what it included, the only example you've given to contradict this is Ireland which isn't really related to the UK government in any way and actually actively avoids being so. Did the USA get named so that they could claim the entirety of America? Maybe the EU some day wants to absorb Russia? just the European bit though, they didn't think far enough ahead to call themselves the Eurasian Union! Now they have no claim on it!

But all this is pretty by the by, I don't care really if you don't call yourself a Brit or what on forms or whatever. I care a good deal more if a UKIPer doesn't call themselves European, what I do object to is going out of your way to do so, Why the fuck does ethnicity matter so much? I object to any classification any dividing line any arbitrary grouping that is put between people, And thats what insisting your scottish not British is. United we stand divided we fall should be the ultimate goal of any left wing movement and I know your left wing but instead of trying to reclaim the word British in a not so South East of England Focused way your just hopping off and calling yourself Scottish not British. And that just perpetuates the Divide.

[Arcov]

In Glasgow there have been allegations of electoral fraud, Sky News reports. There were claims that, in 10 cases, people tried to represent someone who had already voted. The police have been called in and some ballot papers are being removed from ballot boxes so they can be investigated.

US troops have landed in Scotland. Officials say the terrible civil war breaking the county apart has lead to humans rights violations and must be stopped. Officials say Operation Scottish freedom has commenced.

[Chestaan]

In Glasgow there have been allegations of electoral fraud, Sky News reports. There were claims that, in 10 cases, people tried to represent someone who had already voted. The police have been called in and some ballot papers are being removed from ballot boxes so they can be investigated.

What a stupid thing to do.

[Voltrovia]

Someone in Canada's come up with a benchmarks table for what Yes needs in each council area (obviously if it does better in one it can afford an under par perfomance in another) to win. Interesting, anyway.

That's very interesting. Might keep this open.

Thanks for linking that. Yes certainly have a bit of a hill to climb in some places.

[Alyakia]

they literally tried to call scotland north britian. it's not controversial that they tried to build a british identity. not in the slightest.

they called it the kingdom of great britain. they named it directly after the geographical entity, to make it clear they controlled all of it. ireland called themselves ireland, no republic, to make it clear they considered all of ireland theirs. this was quite a problem until right up until the belfast agreement. again, the idea that names mean things and people deliberately choose certain names for certain reasons is not controversial. (see also: china). it's also, now that i think about it, quite hilarious that you think they couldn't know about scottish nationalists. you're aware that they, uh, had them, right?

as for why they didn't create a kingdom of the british isles, you'd have to ask them. for all i know they didn't want to call the irish british. i think that was back before irish people were officially considered white.

The first noted use of it was by a scot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Britain when he inherited the crowns of England and Wales. The Isle of Great Britain was called so before the UK was formed, Maybe they named it the same thing to spite seperatists I wasn't in the room at the time and frankly neither were you. They named the country after what it included, the only example you've given to contradict this is Ireland which isn't really related to the UK government in any way and actually actively avoids being so. Did the USA get named so that they could claim the entirety of America? Maybe the EU some day wants to absorb Russia? just the European bit though, they didn't think far enough ahead to call themselves the Eurasian Union! Now they have no claim on it!

But all this is pretty by the by, I don't care really if you don't call yourself a Brit or what on forms or whatever. I care a good deal more if a UKIPer doesn't call themselves European, what I do object to is going out of your way to do so, Why the fuck does ethnicity matter so much? I object to any classification any dividing line any arbitrary grouping that is put between people, And thats what insisting your scottish not British is. United we stand divided we fall should be the ultimate goal of any left wing movement and I know your left wing but instead of trying to reclaim the word British in a not so South East of England Focused way your just hopping off and calling yourself Scottish not British. And that just perpetuates the Divide.

why aren't we called kingdomers?

yes ireland is the much more clear cut example and the more controversial one, and the one i was focusing more upon

because it's not ethnicity. or geography. it's a political distinction, and it matters. would you go and unite with russia right now, because we need to get rid of our divisions and be true leftists? i'm going to guess no.

[Alyakia]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx2khkkCUAA92K3.jpg

also i'm not sure if this means anything at all, but it still looks funny (yee is the top box, no is the bottom)

https://twitter.com/YesDundee/status/512750627626049536

oh well that settles that

rip conspiracy theories

[Wisconsin9]

Wow, so we get the useless expense of a ceremonial monarchy, the additional degree of separation between the people and government, and we get to keep the complete and utter incompetence of Congress, all in one nifty package? What's not to hate?

Well you'd practically have no upper house anymore, which would probably be good for the whole Congress inaction thing.

I'm not sure what's worse, current Congressional gridlock or the thought of a single house that also plays a major role in who heads the executive branch.

[Thanatttynia]

On a more serious note, Salmond's plan to join NATO remains in jeopardy in light of his defence pledges. As far as the plans themselves are concerned, even if AS gets all that he's asking for (a full Typhoon squadron, a full Tornado squadron, half a squadron of Chinooks, and a "4,700" men's worth of equipment from the British Army, which will probably mean a brigade's worth of infantry equipment with the worst IFVs, tanks and artillery the MoD can find to attach to the unit. Yes would also like "two naval squadrons"), much of which it's quite likely he won't get. Even if iScotland did, the air force and navy would be extremely lacking in terms of the kinds of extensive capabilities Salmond talks about the SDF having, while the Scottish Army would not be much different from a militia force.

[Yes supporters, even if you don't rate defence particularly highly as a voting issue, I object to the Yes campaign claiming it can forge a genuinely capable Scottish Defence Force when such claims are very difficult to believe. Not that Scotland will be getting into any wars with Transnistria any time soon!]

Nothing has been thought through.
Nothing is guaranteed.
Everything has been handwaved or dismissed like a bad II RP.

Why the fuck has anyone voted for independence?

This is the most disturbing thing about the referendum. Alex Salmond has done all of this and people are still voting for him, because of his tactics - preying on Scots, making them feel guilty about voting No, and rekindling misguided patriotism. He could say that Scotland would be guaranteed a place on the Security Council and free pounds will fall from the top of Ben Nevis every Tuesday and Thursday weather-permitting, and no one would challenge it, because "it's a time for change".