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Anarcho-Capitalism & Why Libertarians are statists.

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Soselo
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Anarcho-Capitalism & Why Libertarians are statists.

Postby Soselo » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:15 pm

In a free market stateless society the people who are wealthy will buy and own the land. Then they will rent out the land to tenants. Essentially, taxing them. Then to make sure the tenants pay, the landlord hires private security to enforce his rents. Thus you get an army. With these two institutions in place the landlord can then define regulations for the tenants to follow to maintain residency. Thus, you have legislation and laws and bingo the landlord effectively becomes a mini state all on his own and thus the "anarcho" capitalists will ALWAYS end up with a similar system to what we have now by removing the state but keeping the accumulation of capital you will always get inequality, then hierarchy, then a state.

Do you believe that libertarians are statists?

Does the existence of capital create a state or is it the fact that all capital is not distributed equally?
[Modedit]Fixed probably-intentional typo in topic title.[/edit]
Last edited by Soselo on Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:16 pm

Did you start this just to get back at Liberaxia?
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Postby Beta Test » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:17 pm

Time for you to get a blog.
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Krasivovia
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Postby Krasivovia » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:18 pm

All this starting from the premise that he will rent the land.

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Soselo
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Postby Soselo » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:18 pm

Benuty wrote:Did you start this just to get back at Liberaxia?

No, my actions are more soulful than a grudge.
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Postby Margno » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:18 pm

You need to at least give us a question to discuss.
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Soselo
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Postby Soselo » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:19 pm

Margno wrote:You need to at least give us a question to discuss.

I just did.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:19 pm

We're discussing what, exactly?
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Soselo
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Postby Soselo » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:20 pm

Beta Test wrote:Time for you to get a blog.

Time for you to get glasses.
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Soselo
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Postby Soselo » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:20 pm

Scomagia wrote:We're discussing what, exactly?
Answer my questions, are libertarians statists & whether or not capital inevitably creates hierarchy.
Last edited by Soselo on Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Kelinfort » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:21 pm

States will always exist no matter how small, in fact, anarchists themselves may freely come together in the absence of a government to form their own interactions as a confederacy or even a federal unit. Property owners may do the same, as may the elite. It always has happen and will happen in the absence of a government.

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Postby The Serbian Empire » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:23 pm

Kelinfort wrote:States will always exist no matter how small, in fact, anarchists themselves may freely come together in the absence of a government to form their own interactions as a confederacy or even a federal unit. Property owners may do the same, as may the elite. It always has happen and will happen in the absence of a government.

Libertarians aren't even full anarchists. Of course I'm a form of statist. The problem is that I support a minimum state when compared to what is seen in the current US government.
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Postby Jumalariik » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:25 pm

Beta Test wrote:Time for you to get a blog.

How the hell is the OP bloggy?
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Postby New Aerios » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:25 pm

Voluntary association is not the state. Rented accommodation is not the state. Paying for a service is not the state. Are you seriously claiming they are?
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Margno
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Postby Margno » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:25 pm

Soselo wrote:
Margno wrote:You need to at least give us a question to discuss.

I just did.

Cool. I think libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are insufficiently anarchistic even in the absence of the property ownership given in your example because
1. The retention of any kind of property requires the threat of force (for me, the distinction between initiation and retaliation is irrelevant) and
2. The exclusion of others from access to resources is in itself a form of harm (and clearly not a form of aid) and therefore inconsistent with the purest possible interpretation of altruism.
Last edited by Margno on Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Risottia » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:26 pm

Soselo wrote:Do you believe that libertarians are statists?


Not quite. I consider them more accurately to be feudalists.
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The Almighty Bob
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Wait, What?

Postby The Almighty Bob » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:34 pm

Are you speaking of libertarianism in general, or modern-day, US libertarianism? Because the answer to the former is "not particularly," and the latter is basically the opposite.

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Postby Calorax » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:38 pm

Libertarians are only against the state when it suits them
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:40 pm

Alright, you got me. I am a statist.

Most Libertarians are statists. Dur. Not all Libertarians are AnCaps.

That alone should make the argument irrelevant because you have no idea who you are criticizing.
Last edited by The Liberated Territories on Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Soselo
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Postby Soselo » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:01 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Alright, you got me. I am a statist.

Most Libertarians are statists. Dur. Not all Libertarians are AnCaps.

That alone should make the argument irrelevant because you have no idea who you are criticizing.
Anarcho-Capitalists identify as Libertarian.
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Postby Arkolon » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:02 pm

Not all libertarians are anarchists. And unless you totally morph the definition of what a state is, ancaps aren't statists either.

Point of note: I'm a statist, by the way.
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Postby Arkolon » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:03 pm

Soselo wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:Alright, you got me. I am a statist.

Most Libertarians are statists. Dur. Not all Libertarians are AnCaps.

That alone should make the argument irrelevant because you have no idea who you are criticizing.
Anarcho-Capitalists identify as Libertarian.

All anarchists are libertarians but not all libertarians are anarchists.
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Liberaxia
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Postby Liberaxia » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:17 pm

Benuty wrote:Did you start this just to get back at Liberaxia?

I don't think he or she is a libertarian, I'm not sure what there is for him or her to get back at.
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Liberaxia
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Postby Liberaxia » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:18 pm

Arkolon wrote:
Soselo wrote:Anarcho-Capitalists identify as Libertarian.

All anarchists are libertarians but not all libertarians are anarchists.


Other way around, I think. Not all anarchists are libertarians, but all anarcho-capitalists are libertarians.
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Liberaxia
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Postby Liberaxia » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:19 pm

Risottia wrote:
Soselo wrote:Do you believe that libertarians are statists?


Not quite. I consider them more accurately to be feudalists.

Ever heard of feudal states?
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