Abortion: human right?

[Ifreann]

I have anaylized the evidence and came to the conclusion that abortion is the taking of a human life.

Women have the right not to have their bodily sovereignty violated.

According to some anything inside a woman takes precedence. Like, say, the penis of a rapist.

[Sin and Debauchery]

I have anaylized the evidence and came to the conclusion that abortion is the taking of a human life.

And? I hae the right not to be attached to another person. I also have the right not to house that person within my body.

Depends on the situation. But if you voluntarily made that person, you are responsible for it, and as soon as it becomes sentient killing it is the very definition of murder.

Your rights end where the other's rights begin.

[Atlanticatia]

To quote Helen Clark, former Prime Minister of New Zealand:

I’ve always believed that in the end it is a woman’s right, in line with her own conscience, to determine whether or not she has an abortion and you know that’s the view I will hold until I go to the grave.

[Neutraligon]

And? I hae the right not to be attached to another person. I also have the right not to house that person within my body.

Depends on the situation. But if you voluntarily made that person, you are responsible for it, and as soon as it becomes sentient killing it is the very definition of murder.

Your rights end where the other's rights begin.

If I voluntarily made it? No consent is an ongoing process, and I can remove my consent at any point in time. And no murder is the unlawful killing, so it does not fulfill the definition of murder.

[MERIZoC]

That's some pretty liberal stuff you're spouting there, Ark. Sure you're not a closet socialist?

I'm for anything and everything, as long as it's noncoercively voluntary.

Killing animals for meat isn't mutually voluntary, which is why I oppose it. EDIT: And also why abortion is a touchy subject.

But no, free-market ultra-capitalism over here

I can respect that stance on abortion, since it's consistent, even if I might disagree with it. It's when people go bonkers over an abortion, but don't have the slightest care when an animal is killed, that annoy me.

[Arkolon]

And? I hae the right not to be attached to another person. I also have the right not to house that person within my body.

Depends on the situation. But if you voluntarily made that person, you are responsible for it, and as soon as it becomes sentient killing it is the very definition of murder.

Your rights end where the other's rights begin.

Basically, yeah. But before twenty-four weeks-- before partial birth abortions-- the foetus is hardly considered an "other".

[Sin and Debauchery]

Depends on the situation. But if you voluntarily made that person, you are responsible for it, and as soon as it becomes sentient killing it is the very definition of murder.

Your rights end where the other's rights begin.

If I voluntarily made it? No consent is an ongoing process, and I can remove my consent at any point in time. And no murder is the unlawful killing, so it does not fulfill the definition of murder.

No, sorry, that is not how it works. You either do something or you don't, and you take responsibility for it, that is the definition of being an adult and a free citizen instead of being a happy-go-lucky teenager. You can only remove your consent up to a certain point in the fetus development cycle, after that point the being becomes sentient, and killing a sentient human being is a crime.

Don't want to raise the child? give it up for adoption, but you have no right to kill a fellow human being.

[Arkolon]

I'm for anything and everything, as long as it's noncoercively voluntary.

Killing animals for meat isn't mutually voluntary, which is why I oppose it. EDIT: And also why abortion is a touchy subject.

But no, free-market ultra-capitalism over here

I can respect that stance on abortion, since it's consistent, even if I might disagree with it. It's when people go bonkers over an abortion, but don't have the slightest care when an animal is killed, that annoy me.

I'm still pro-choice, but after deductive reasoning and reading over the plethora of abortion threads NSG has been gifted with before, as opposed to relying on "her body her choice!!". But yeah, a pro-lifer that eats meat isn't much of a pro-lifer if you ask me.

[The Debrisian Federal Republic]

Dead baby = successful abortion.

Dead murderer = botched execution.


When my mother was pregnant with my brother, the genetics counselor said he was going to have down's syndrome and would be severely mentally retarded for his entire life, and that he should be aborted. He turned out perfectly normal. That genetics counselor tried to kill a perfectly normal kid based off of a wrinkle in his brain we saw on the ultrasound. You see though, that's not the only issue. You want to kill a fetus/unborn child mainly for one of two reasons- they will have some undesirable trait (you're going for a master race like Hitler.) or the mother was impregnated while having sex but doesn't want a baby. (You are horribly irresponsible and hopefully will never reproduce.)

Now, that being said, let's say the mother was impregnated from a rape. This is different, because the mother is not at fault here. Here are some nonlethal ways to solve the problem of what to do with the kid-

Put them up for adoption, raise the kid as your own, or (less desirably) make the rapist take care of them.


As to those of you who want to have sex without the risk of having a baby, you can either shove a cobalt-60 rod up your fallopian tubes or you can have your testicles surgically removed.. Sex is a tool to carry on the species, not something people do becuz itz fun dawg. Thank you for your time.

-A person whose brother was nearly killed off because of abortion.

[Sin and Debauchery]

As to those of you who want to have sex without the risk of having a baby, you can either shove a cobalt-60 rod up your fallopian tubes or you can have your testicles surgically removed.. Sex is a tool to carry on the species, not something people do becuz itz fun dawg. Thank you for your time.

-A person whose brother was nearly killed off because of abortion.

Or...you know...use contraceptives, or do a vasectomy/tubal ligation.

Source: A guy who likes sex, but isn't big on the idea of having 15 kids.

[The Debrisian Federal Republic]

True, I suppose. I was thinking more permanent and failsafe solutions.

[Ifreann]

killing a sentient human being is a crime.

According to what law?

[Arkolon]

killing a sentient human being is a crime.

According to what law?

Natural law!

[The Debrisian Federal Republic]

Ones that will hopefully be passed soon.

[Sin and Debauchery]

True, I suppose. I was thinking more permanent and failsafe solutions.

A vasectomy/tubal ligation is very permanent and very failsafe unless the doctor is a complete idiot.

According to what law?

Most states recognize in their constitutions the right to life.

Also, the UDHR says in article 3: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."

[Atlanticatia]

Also, the UDHR says in article 3: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."

Article 1 says rights begin at birth, so therefore a person is only a person from birth, and they only have the right to life, liberty, and security of the person once they are born.

[The Serbian Empire]

True, I suppose. I was thinking more permanent and failsafe solutions.

A vasectomy/tubal ligation is very permanent and very failsafe unless the doctor is a complete idiot.

According to what law?

Most states recognize in their constitutions the right to life.

Also, the UDHR says in article 3: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."

Yep, and that is based on Natural Law.

[Othelos]

And? I hae the right not to be attached to another person. I also have the right not to house that person within my body.

Depends on the situation. But if you voluntarily made that person, you are responsible for it, and as soon as it becomes sentient killing it is the very definition of murder.

Your rights end where the other's rights begin.

People don't choose to become pregnant.

[Othelos]

If I voluntarily made it? No consent is an ongoing process, and I can remove my consent at any point in time. And no murder is the unlawful killing, so it does not fulfill the definition of murder.

No, sorry, that is not how it works. You either do something or you don't, and you take responsibility for it, that is the definition of being an adult and a free citizen instead of being a happy-go-lucky teenager. You can only remove your consent up to a certain point in the fetus development cycle, after that point the being becomes sentient, and killing a sentient human being is a crime.

Don't want to raise the child? give it up for adoption, but you have no right to kill a fellow human being.

Yes, you do, if it's violating your bodily sovereignty.

[Arkolon]

A vasectomy/tubal ligation is very permanent and very failsafe unless the doctor is a complete idiot.



Most states recognize in their constitutions the right to life.

Also, the UDHR says in article 3: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."

Yep, and that is based on Natural Law.

Not all of it is, but that particular freedom from harm/coercion one is basically natural law inscripturated.

[Othelos]

Dead baby = successful abortion.

Dead murderer = botched execution.


When my mother was pregnant with my brother, the genetics counselor said he was going to have down's syndrome and would be severely mentally retarded for his entire life, and that he should be aborted. He turned out perfectly normal. That genetics counselor tried to kill a perfectly normal kid based off of a wrinkle in his brain we saw on the ultrasound. You see though, that's not the only issue. You want to kill a fetus/unborn child mainly for one of two reasons- they will have some undesirable trait (you're going for a master race like Hitler.) or the mother was impregnated while having sex but doesn't want a baby. (You are horribly irresponsible and hopefully will never reproduce.)

Now, that being said, let's say the mother was impregnated from a rape. This is different, because the mother is not at fault here. Here are some nonlethal ways to solve the problem of what to do with the kid-

Put them up for adoption, raise the kid as your own, or (less desirably) make the rapist take care of them.


As to those of you who want to have sex without the risk of having a baby, you can either shove a cobalt-60 rod up your fallopian tubes or you can have your testicles surgically removed.. Sex is a tool to carry on the species, not something people do becuz itz fun dawg. Thank you for your time.

-A person whose brother was nearly killed off because of abortion.

The purpose of sex is not just to get pregnant.

[Olthar]

At first I thought no, but then I looked at article 25.


Abortion is a form of medical care, so yes, it could be considered a human right.

You could say breast enlargements are medical care. Does that make it a human right?

Women should be able to augment their bodies in whatever way they want.

[Othelos]

You could say breast enlargements are medical care. Does that make it a human right?

Women should be able to augment their bodies in whatever way they want.

Agreed.

[Murkwood]

If you are going to take everything literally, fine. Selfish in a negative way. People who have abortions are doing it because they care more about themselves than the child inside them.

What does that have to do with anything? Are you just trying to insult women who get abortions?

No, I'm explaining the use of selfish.

At least, what I thought it was referring to.

[Northern-Armeania]

When people realize in their hearts that Abortion is taking an innocent human life.

It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It only matter how the mother feels. Hence, you have no right to decide whether or not she gets an abortion.

It is possible to be against abortion personally, while pro-choice, in order to respect the rights of others.

Its about the baby not me, how I feel doesnt matter, how the baby feels does matter.