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Abortion: human right?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Is abortion a right?

abortion is not a right any time.
218
19%
in case of rape and/or if the woman's life is threatened.
283
24%
yes, up until a certain point in the fetus's development.
356
30%
yes, any time while the fetus is still in her body.
257
22%
.
23
2%
I don't care, leave me alone. lol
40
3%
 
Total votes : 1177

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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:32 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Northern-Armeania wrote:I believe the babies have a right to life, its that simple, also if your pro choice Google image a fetus. They are so CUTE!!!!!!
Look at the picture on this link and tell me why killing that baby that could survive on its own is not murder.
http://pregnancy.about.com/od/fetus/ss/ ... tus_10.htm

If the fetus can survive on it's own, there should not be an abortion. Not many people dispute that argument.



Agreed. Though (nearly) up to that point abortions should be allowed
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:32 pm

Draica wrote:Abortion is murder, period.

No it's not, full stop.

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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:32 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Merizoc wrote:If the fetus can survive on it's own, there should not be an abortion. Not many people dispute that argument.

34% of NSG apparently disagrees, the largest voting category.

If a fetus can survive on its own, would it really be an abortion?
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:32 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Othelos wrote:No. Murder is based on legality, not morality.


Was still wrong though. As is abortion. By the religious definition, it is murder.


Depends which religion.
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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:32 pm

Nimzonia wrote:
Othelos wrote:yes, but if you gamble and get pregnant, you can stop being pregnant.


There are lots of things you can have, that are not human rights. I think you have a right to not be stopped from having an abortion, but I don't think you have a right to have one. Rights are things which you must have under all circumstances. Abortions are just conveniences of our wealthy, technologically advanced modern world.

Abortions have been happening for a long time, not just in modern times. it was just much more dangerous.

And I agree with you. As a specified in the OP, people have the right to choose whether or not to get an abortion (not that abortion itself is a right).
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:32 pm

Benuty wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:34% of NSG apparently disagrees, the largest voting category.

If a fetus can survive on its own, would it really be an abortion?

Is the pregnancy ending before birth occurs? Then yes, it is an abortion.

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:33 pm

Draica wrote:Abortion is murder, period.

Murder is unlawful killing. Since getting an abortion is legal, it's not murder.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:33 pm

Draica wrote:Abortion is murder, period.

A one Supreme Court of the United States disagrees.

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:33 pm

Benuty wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:34% of NSG apparently disagrees, the largest voting category.

If a fetus can survive on its own, would it really be an abortion?

Partial-birth abortion is considered an "abortion", so most likely.

Abortion is the act of forcibly terminating a pregnancy.
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Draica
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Postby Draica » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:33 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Draica wrote:Abortion is murder, period.

No it's not, full stop.


A fetus is what I consider to be a life. In certain stages it can kick, laugh, feel, etc. Would you agree that little fetus(I consider it baby anyway) in that womb that's kicking should be aborted?
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Northern-Armeania
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Postby Northern-Armeania » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:34 pm

Othelos wrote:
Northern-Armeania wrote:Killing Jews in NAZI Germany was legal in NAZI Germany, its that not murder?

No. Murder is based on legality, not morality.

Ok, then what makes Abortion any different than the Holocaust, 50 million have been aborted since 1973. What makes the Holocaust the pinnacle of human evil and the death of 50 million babies ok?
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They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Draica
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Postby Draica » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:34 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Draica wrote:Abortion is murder, period.

A one Supreme Court of the United States disagrees.


I don't care what a group of men say. They do not have the right to take and give life, they are mortals.
Draica is a Federal Republic nation ran by conservatives and Libertarians! If you ever wanna rp a state visit, a war, a debate with one of my leaders or a conservative/libertarian philosopher, or just wanna tg me in general(I like TGs) drop me a TG!
Allies: Pantorrum, Korgenstin, Zebraltar, Kiribati-Tarawa, Democratic Sabha. Idoa, Allaena, Lledia.
Enemies: Arkania 5, any communist nation, Drakorvanyia.
Wars:

The Draican-Arkanian war: On-going

The Waldensian-Draican-Kiribati Cold War: Won. Dissolution of Communist Government in Waldensia

The Draican-Die erworbenen Namen war: Draica successfully defended, retaliation called off.

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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:35 pm

Draica wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No it's not, full stop.


A fetus is what I consider to be a life. In certain stages it can kick, laugh, feel, etc. Would you agree that little fetus(I consider it baby anyway) in that womb that's kicking should be aborted?

I consider a cow (indeed, many people do) to be life. Is it murder to kill a cow? No, because it's not an unlawful killing.

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:35 pm

Draica wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No it's not, full stop.


A fetus is what I consider to be a life. In certain stages it can kick, laugh, feel, etc. Would you agree that little fetus(I consider it baby anyway) in that womb that's kicking should be aborted?

If the mother chooses so, yes. It's violating her bodily sovereignty.
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Pro: Human rights, equality, LGBT rights, socialized healthcare, the EU in theory, green energy, public transportation, the internet as a utility
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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:35 pm

There's the euthanasia/age of consent witty argument, which I may or may not give depending on whether or not they've already been given in this thread. "Not much of a libertarian if ur against abortion lol" isn't an actual valid argument, considering that most libertarians base their arguments on the NAP, and that abortion then becomes a very touchy subject in this respect. I would actually consider abortion murder, personally, if it wasn't for the euthanasia/age of consent arguments. Also, that partial birth abortion is pretty horrid, and I don't like it one bit, keeping in mind that the child is alive during the process.

Also, argument to the UDHR should become a fallacy. Seriously, it's words on a bit of paper. It's not a list of human rights, it's a list of temporary privileges granted by an institution that hasn't even existed for 0.003% (100 years) of humanity's existence.

Go natural rights!
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:35 pm

Northern-Armeania wrote:
Othelos wrote:No. Murder is based on legality, not morality.

Ok, then what makes Abortion any different than the Holocaust, 50 million have been aborted since 1973. What makes the Holocaust the pinnacle of human evil and the death of 50 million babies ok?

Because those people put into the gas chambers were capable of thought, and felt pain.

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:35 pm

Draica wrote:
Merizoc wrote:A one Supreme Court of the United States disagrees.


I don't care what a group of men say. They do not have the right to take and give life, they are mortals.

They aren't the ones giving or taking lives.
American & German, ich kann auch Deutsch. I have a B.S. in finance.
Pro: Human rights, equality, LGBT rights, socialized healthcare, the EU in theory, green energy, public transportation, the internet as a utility
Anti: Authoritarian regimes and systems, the Chinese government, identity politics, die AfD, populism, organized religion, Erdogan, assault weapon ownership
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Draica
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Postby Draica » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:36 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Draica wrote:
A fetus is what I consider to be a life. In certain stages it can kick, laugh, feel, etc. Would you agree that little fetus(I consider it baby anyway) in that womb that's kicking should be aborted?

I consider a cow (indeed, many people do) to be life. Is it murder to kill a cow? No, because it's not an unlawful killing.



That's a red herring. We're not talking about the termination of animal life, we're talking about the termination of human life.
Draica is a Federal Republic nation ran by conservatives and Libertarians! If you ever wanna rp a state visit, a war, a debate with one of my leaders or a conservative/libertarian philosopher, or just wanna tg me in general(I like TGs) drop me a TG!
Allies: Pantorrum, Korgenstin, Zebraltar, Kiribati-Tarawa, Democratic Sabha. Idoa, Allaena, Lledia.
Enemies: Arkania 5, any communist nation, Drakorvanyia.
Wars:

The Draican-Arkanian war: On-going

The Waldensian-Draican-Kiribati Cold War: Won. Dissolution of Communist Government in Waldensia

The Draican-Die erworbenen Namen war: Draica successfully defended, retaliation called off.

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Northern-Armeania
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Postby Northern-Armeania » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:36 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Draica wrote:Abortion is murder, period.

No it's not, full stop.

What makes killing this http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-1285698 ... uuAgXg-1-0
OK
Catholic, Political Centrist

World History is the key to understanding Right: 1 Libertarian: 5

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

Jesus loves you
Christianity can be summarized in one word: LOVE

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:36 pm

Draica wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No it's not, full stop.


A fetus is what I consider to be a life. In certain stages it can kick, laugh, feel, etc. Would you agree that little fetus(I consider it baby anyway) in that womb that's kicking should be aborted?

If the mother does not want to be pregnant, then she should be allowed to abort her pregnancy. What you consider life or a baby is not relevant.

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:36 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Draica wrote:
A fetus is what I consider to be a life. In certain stages it can kick, laugh, feel, etc. Would you agree that little fetus(I consider it baby anyway) in that womb that's kicking should be aborted?

I consider a cow (indeed, many people do) to be life. Is it murder to kill a cow? No, because it's not an unlawful killing.

Meat is murder. I don't see how this is deniable, even by meat-eaters.
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Northern-Armeania
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Postby Northern-Armeania » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:37 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Northern-Armeania wrote:Ok, then what makes Abortion any different than the Holocaust, 50 million have been aborted since 1973. What makes the Holocaust the pinnacle of human evil and the death of 50 million babies ok?

Because those people put into the gas chambers were capable of thought, and felt pain.

I believe the Fetus feels pain
Catholic, Political Centrist

World History is the key to understanding Right: 1 Libertarian: 5

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

Jesus loves you
Christianity can be summarized in one word: LOVE

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:37 pm

Draica wrote:
Merizoc wrote:I consider a cow (indeed, many people do) to be life. Is it murder to kill a cow? No, because it's not an unlawful killing.



That's a red herring. We're not talking about the termination of animal life, we're talking about the termination of human life.


Humans are animals, why is a human life anymore important than a cow? Or a pig?
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Draica
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Postby Draica » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:37 pm

Othelos wrote:
Draica wrote:
A fetus is what I consider to be a life. In certain stages it can kick, laugh, feel, etc. Would you agree that little fetus(I consider it baby anyway) in that womb that's kicking should be aborted?

If the mother chooses so, yes. It's violating her bodily sovereignty.



It's incredibly sick that you'd be 100% OK with a mother terminating a life inside of her that can feel, kick, and giggle. Something that's legal. That is sick.

It's not the mother's life, forget about the mother - it's about the life of that baby in there. I don't give a damn what the mother wants.
Draica is a Federal Republic nation ran by conservatives and Libertarians! If you ever wanna rp a state visit, a war, a debate with one of my leaders or a conservative/libertarian philosopher, or just wanna tg me in general(I like TGs) drop me a TG!
Allies: Pantorrum, Korgenstin, Zebraltar, Kiribati-Tarawa, Democratic Sabha. Idoa, Allaena, Lledia.
Enemies: Arkania 5, any communist nation, Drakorvanyia.
Wars:

The Draican-Arkanian war: On-going

The Waldensian-Draican-Kiribati Cold War: Won. Dissolution of Communist Government in Waldensia

The Draican-Die erworbenen Namen war: Draica successfully defended, retaliation called off.

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Unitaristic Regions
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Postby Unitaristic Regions » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:37 pm

Arkolon wrote:
Merizoc wrote:I consider a cow (indeed, many people do) to be life. Is it murder to kill a cow? No, because it's not an unlawful killing.

Meat is murder. I don't see how this is deniable, even by meat-eaters.


Because murder is only applicable to human beings to them. I believe they refer to animal-killing as "putting down"
Used to be a straight-edge orthodox communist, now I'm de facto a state-capitalist who dislikes migration and hopes automation will bring socialism under proper conditions.

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