Canada Should Get Nuclear Weapons

[Infected Mushroom]

If absolutely no one had nukes Canada is in even more trouble. Its conventional forces are too small, inexperienced, and relient on the USA. It would have no means of resisting a conventional invasion by any major power by itself (especially if that invader is the US).

Canada getting nukes (and thus being able to threaten anyone who invades with a nuclear strike) levels the playing field. Without them, Canada has no leverage.

The world needs no nukes, no war, no stupid invasion. The only thing the world needs is peace.

militaries exist to keep the peace. That's what these nukes are for. Without them, someone might be tempted to invade Canada.

[Adab]

Why would Canada risk seriously angering the rest of the world by developing nuclear weapons which it has no conceivable need for?

so that it gains for itself total immunity from invasion? AKA theoretical complete security from state actors? That's a pretty big gain.

You can't and shouldn't rely on the USA forever... especially because resources around the world are running out, and Canada is sitting on top of a lot of untapped underwater resources.

No one would dare to invade Canada without angering the Commonwealth and NATO. Invading Canada will turn the invading state into an international pariah.

[Keyboard Warriors]

Why would Canada risk seriously angering the rest of the world by developing nuclear weapons which it has no conceivable need for?

so that it gains for itself total immunity from invasion? AKA theoretical complete security from state actors? That's a pretty big gain.

You can't and shouldn't rely on the USA forever... especially because resources around the world are running out, and Canada is sitting on top of a lot of untapped underwater resources.

So to protect Canada from invasion, you're giving them a reason to be invaded by other countries. Makes sense.

[Infected Mushroom]

so that it gains for itself total immunity from invasion? AKA theoretical complete security from state actors? That's a pretty big gain.

You can't and shouldn't rely on the USA forever... especially because resources around the world are running out, and Canada is sitting on top of a lot of untapped underwater resources.

So to protect Canada from invasion, you're giving them a reason to be invaded by other countries. Makes sense.

no I'm giving them a reason not to invade.

I expect Canada can get the nuclear weapons relatively quickly, especially if it develops peaceful nuclear energy first. After all, Canada has cooperated with the Americans in their nuclear program in the past I believe. They should be able to make a sudden jump.

Once the nukes are active, that's a reason for countries NOT to invade Canada, not to invade it.

[Talanzaar]

Eh, as a Canadian, I can say that we're better off without nukes.

[Pays den haut]

The world needs no nukes, no war, no stupid invasion. The only thing the world needs is peace.

militaries exist to keep the peace. That's what these nukes are for. Without them, someone might be tempted to invade Canada.

Invasion is obsolete in 2014. No civilized country would invade another one.

[Ganos Lao]

The new and improved Canada?

[Lalaki]

So to protect Canada from invasion, you're giving them a reason to be invaded by other countries. Makes sense.

no I'm giving them a reason not to invade.

I expect Canada can get the nuclear weapons relatively quickly, especially if it develops peaceful nuclear energy first. After all, Canada has cooperated with the Americans in their nuclear program in the past I believe. They should be able to make a sudden jump.

Once the nukes are active, that's a reason for countries NOT to invade Canada, not to invade it.

The US would not invade Canada. Doing so would turn NATO against the US, its biggest supporter. That is not smart.

You spoke of Iraq. That was multilateral and supported by the UK and Canada.

[Infected Mushroom]

so that it gains for itself total immunity from invasion? AKA theoretical complete security from state actors? That's a pretty big gain.

You can't and shouldn't rely on the USA forever... especially because resources around the world are running out, and Canada is sitting on top of a lot of untapped underwater resources.

No one would dare to invade Canada without angering the Commonwealth and NATO. Invading Canada will turn the invading state into an international pariah.

but if it is the USA, there is no deterence against the USA.

You can't rely on a French or British nuclear umbrella. If the US invades Canada, Britain and France can't nuke the US in retaliation; the USA would nuke back and London and Paris would be gone. The UK and France are not going to commit suicide for Canada.

Only Canadian retaliatory nuclear strikes in that context would make sense. Since Canada is going down (with the US invading it), Canada may as well nuke the US.

[Adab]

no I'm giving them a reason not to invade.

I expect Canada can get the nuclear weapons relatively quickly, especially if it develops peaceful nuclear energy first. After all, Canada has cooperated with the Americans in their nuclear program in the past I believe. They should be able to make a sudden jump.

Once the nukes are active, that's a reason for countries NOT to invade Canada, not to invade it.

So the nukes are there just to convince other countries not to invade Canada, without any other use?

[Infected Mushroom]

no I'm giving them a reason not to invade.

I expect Canada can get the nuclear weapons relatively quickly, especially if it develops peaceful nuclear energy first. After all, Canada has cooperated with the Americans in their nuclear program in the past I believe. They should be able to make a sudden jump.

Once the nukes are active, that's a reason for countries NOT to invade Canada, not to invade it.

The US would not invade Canada. Doing so would turn NATO against the US, its biggest supporter. That is not smart.

You spoke of Iraq. That was multilateral and supported by the UK and Canada.

You do realize that the USA is more powerful than the rest of NATO combined? like way more powerful?

[Infected Mushroom]

no I'm giving them a reason not to invade.

I expect Canada can get the nuclear weapons relatively quickly, especially if it develops peaceful nuclear energy first. After all, Canada has cooperated with the Americans in their nuclear program in the past I believe. They should be able to make a sudden jump.

Once the nukes are active, that's a reason for countries NOT to invade Canada, not to invade it.

So the nukes are there just to convince other countries not to invade Canada, without any other use?

Primarily.

The other reasons are prestige, glory, and increased capabilities for destruction (maybe one day you'll need to nuke aliens when they invade, who knows).

It could also usher in a new era of Canadian nationalism and pride.

[Dracoria]

I have a hard time believing theories that the US would invade Canada. As much as people will try to deny it, we're too damned similar culturally, many Canadians and Americans have relatives on the opposite side of the border, and we're too economically intertwined to try something like that. Besides Canda, who are some of the best US allies? The UK and the Commonwealth. We're not going to throw all of that away.

At this point, every country grabbing more nuclear weapons is going to make proliferation that much worse. We'd do better to cut down on existing stockpiles until we only have enough nuclear armament amongst the world's nations to destroy the planet once over. Maybe twice to be thorough. The rest is unnecessary.

[Adab]

but if it is the USA, there is no deterence against the USA.

You can't rely on a French or British nuclear umbrella. If the US invades Canada, Britain and France can't nuke the US in retaliation; the USA would nuke back and London and Paris would be gone. The UK and France are not going to commit suicide for Canada.

Only Canadian retaliatory nuclear strikes in that context would make sense. Since Canada is going down (with the US invading it), Canada may as well nuke the US.

If that actually happens, I expect pretty much every major power in the world to come together quickly and liberate Canada from the American yoke.

[Lalaki]

The US would not invade Canada. Doing so would turn NATO against the US, its biggest supporter. That is not smart.

You spoke of Iraq. That was multilateral and supported by the UK and Canada.

You do realize that the USA is more powerful than the rest of NATO combined? like way more powerful?

That doesn't matter. The US would not want to lose the support of the UK and France. And Canada is one of our closest allies. You are assuming the worse about the US. Iraq? Supported/aided by the UK, France and Canada. Vietnam? Supported and pulled into by France. Iran 1953 coup? Supported/aided by the UK.

And so you see, many "imperialist" actions by the US were supported, and even instigated (in the case of Iran and Vietnam) by another country that has a high standing in the international community. The US just takes the blame.

[Wisconsin9]

The United States will never invade Canada. Besides , having nuclear weapons doesn't mean no one will ever dare attack you. Israel has nuclear weapons, and it's at war.

Um, it is not sure if Israel has nuclear weapons for sure.

Just like it isn't sure if the NSA is spying on a given country.

[The United Territories of Providence]

We don't want Canada, so you're flattering yourself. We don't need to steal your oil, you sell it cheap. We don't need your wood, your maple syrup, your freaking diabetes fries with gravy or anything else. Nuclear weapons wouldn't stop us even if we wanted Canada. We have a stockpile in the tens of thousands, and 75% of the Canadian population lives within 100 miles of the us border. We'd be able to destroy 75% of the population before Harper can press the button. Canada is safe because nobody wants Canada. They have resources, just like every other nation. They aren't this shining jewel in a pile of turds. They're a turd, in a pile of turds. Annexation of Canada would just be a strain on the United States economy. The 19th century is over, we aren't interested in imperialism or expanding our "Great American Empire". We want self preservation. Nuclear Proliferation isn't healthy for the world, there'd be a lot less tension if no nation had nuclear weapons.

[Costa Fierro]

I think that Canada should get nuclear weapons.

"I'll fucking glass your country eh" doesn't sound very threatening.

[Dracoria]

No one would dare to invade Canada without angering the Commonwealth and NATO. Invading Canada will turn the invading state into an international pariah.

but if it is the USA, there is no deterence against the USA.

You can't rely on a French or British nuclear umbrella. If the US invades Canada, Britain and France can't nuke the US in retaliation; the USA would nuke back and London and Paris would be gone. The UK and France are not going to commit suicide for Canada.

Only Canadian retaliatory nuclear strikes in that context would make sense. Since Canada is going down (with the US invading it), Canada may as well nuke the US.

This is a rather simplistic worldview. You're ignoring the kind of damage that can be done with severe economic sanctions to a nation in the modern globalized economy. Unless China sides with the US and manages to make up for any trade loss the US will suffer with the rest of the world somehow, the results would devastate the American economy. The US isn't going to mess with its economic allies to that extent. We need that trade as much as they do.

[Lalaki]

We don't want Canada, so you're flattering yourself. We don't need to steal your oil, you sell it cheap. We don't need your wood, your maple syrup, your freaking diabetes fries with gravy or anything else. Nuclear weapons wouldn't stop us even if we wanted Canada. We have a stockpile in the tens of thousands, and 75% of the Canadian population lives within 100 miles of the us border. We'd be able to destroy 75% of the population before Harper can press the button. Canada is safe because nobody wants Canada. They have resources, just like every other nation. They aren't this shining jewel in a pile of turds. They're a turd, in a pile of turds. Annexation of Canada would just be a strain on the United States economy. The 19th century is over, we aren't interested in imperialism or expanding our "Great American Empire". We want self preservation. Nuclear Proliferation isn't healthy for the world, there'd be a lot less tension if no nation had nuclear weapons.

As someone who is generally one of the few on NSG that tries to defend the US within reason, I object to most of this. Canada has been shown to outperform the US out many scales, and is indeed one of the highest ranking nations on Earth.

[Infected Mushroom]

but if it is the USA, there is no deterence against the USA.

You can't rely on a French or British nuclear umbrella. If the US invades Canada, Britain and France can't nuke the US in retaliation; the USA would nuke back and London and Paris would be gone. The UK and France are not going to commit suicide for Canada.

Only Canadian retaliatory nuclear strikes in that context would make sense. Since Canada is going down (with the US invading it), Canada may as well nuke the US.

If that actually happens, I expect pretty much every major power in the world to come together quickly and liberate Canada from the American yoke.

in this world you can only rely on yourself.

You simply can't rely on far away countries across the Atlantic. Especially when all of them combined (the ones in NATO) don't even come close to America's military might. You really expect the EU to have the political will to declare war on the US for the sake of Canada? Even if they did, they can't defeat the US Navy.

Besides, if the invasion has happened, Canada's already failed. If they had nukes at the beginning, that invasion would have been deterred. The whole point is to get to a place where war WON'T happen because you can use nukes to avoid a conflict, rather than to get to a place where you have to lose your whole country, fight in a war, and then hope for liberation. Its puts Canada on the response too much.

Canada should be in control.

[Keyboard Warriors]

So to protect Canada from invasion, you're giving them a reason to be invaded by other countries. Makes sense.

no I'm giving them a reason not to invade.

I expect Canada can get the nuclear weapons relatively quickly, especially if it develops peaceful nuclear energy first. After all, Canada has cooperated with the Americans in their nuclear program in the past I believe. They should be able to make a sudden jump.

Once the nukes are active, that's a reason for countries NOT to invade Canada, not to invade it.

Look, it might not be easy to understand some of the complexities behind how power projection can affect international relations, but when we're talking with nuclear weapons it's actually pretty clear. Now, first you should note that presently non-nuclear nations creating new nuclear weapons is illegal. That's right, it's illegal as mandated by the Non-Proliferation Treaty which Canada happens to be a signatory to, as a non-nuclear weapons state. So, if Canada went through with this, they'd be in a blatant violation of international law which would almost certainly spark genuine anger and attention from the rest of the world. Not only would it indicate that Canada is a genuine threat to the stability of the rest of the world and draw the attention of other nuclear powers, it would also completely destroy the Canadian economy as the rest of the world places their own sanctions.

[Davinhia]

"Things look like they're pretty crazy down in the US border and some day, the USA might suddenly decide to invade and annex Canada (they've shown their willingness to invade somewhere as far away as Iraq for oil). "

I think we already tried that.

[Lalaki]

If that actually happens, I expect pretty much every major power in the world to come together quickly and liberate Canada from the American yoke.

in this world you can only rely on yourself.

You simply can't rely on far away countries across the Atlantic. Especially when all of them combined (the ones in NATO) don't even come close to America's military might. You really expect the EU to have the political will to declare war on the US for the sake of Canada? Even if they did, they can't defeat the US Navy.

Besides, if the invasion has happened, Canada's already failed. If they had nukes at the beginning, that invasion would have been deterred. The whole point is to get to a place where war WON'T happen because you can use nukes to avoid a conflict, rather than to get to a place where you have to lose your whole country, fight in a war, and then hope for liberation. Its puts Canada on the response too much.

Canada should be in control.

Read on my previous replies to your comment for a response.

And also, do you think Russia and China wouldn't take this as an opportunity to take down the world's only superpower? An American invasion of Canada is WWIII. This idea is absurd. The US and Canada are allies, and rightfully so.

[Infected Mushroom]

but if it is the USA, there is no deterence against the USA.

You can't rely on a French or British nuclear umbrella. If the US invades Canada, Britain and France can't nuke the US in retaliation; the USA would nuke back and London and Paris would be gone. The UK and France are not going to commit suicide for Canada.

Only Canadian retaliatory nuclear strikes in that context would make sense. Since Canada is going down (with the US invading it), Canada may as well nuke the US.

This is a rather simplistic worldview. You're ignoring the kind of damage that can be done with severe economic sanctions to a nation in the modern globalized economy. Unless China sides with the US and manages to make up for any trade loss the US will suffer with the rest of the world somehow, the results would devastate the American economy. The US isn't going to mess with its economic allies to that extent. We need that trade as much as they do.

In this day and age, no bloc of countries can effectively stop trading with the US and not commit economic suicide. Economic sanctions against America? That's never going to happen.

The US would bleed if gets sanctioned but whoever is doing the sanctioning would stop working completely...