Are you Pro Palestine or Israel

[Kassaran]

i don't think you have your dates or the sequence of events in the six day war right

Whoops, yep, you're right, however I do have a point here when I state the Israeli's won their land fair and square from the start.
The Six Day War began "on June 5 with Israel launching surprise strikes against Egyptian air-fields in response to the mobilisation of Egyptian forces on the Israeli border"*.

A preemptive attack, because the last time Egypt mobilized, it was with Transjordan, Iraq and Syria invading "what had just ceased to be Mandatory Palestine, and immediately attacking Israeli forces and several Jewish settlements."*

"As a result of the war the State of Israel retained the area that the UN General Assembly Resolution 181 had recommended for the proposed Jewish state and also took control of almost 60% of the area allocated for the proposed Arab state,[16] including the Jaffa, Lydda and Ramle area, Galilee, some parts of the Negev, a wide strip along the Tel-Aviv-Jerusalem road, West Jerusalem, and some territories in the West Bank."*

* taken straight from the wikipedia article sans italicized portions of text which indicate a verb tense changed to suit the verb tense of the remainder of the sentence

[Alyakia]

oh we're just ripping stuff from wikipedia ok
The US Office of Current Intelligence "...soon concluded that the Israelis – contrary to their claims – had fired first."

After the war, Israeli officials admitted that Israel wasn't expecting to be attacked when it initiated hostilities against Egypt. Mordechai Bentov, an Israeli cabinet minister who attended the June 4th Cabinet meeting, called into question the idea that there was a "danger of extermination" saying that it was "invented of whole cloth and exaggerated after the fact to justify the annexation of new Arab territories."

Menachem Begin (Israeli Prime Minister) said that "The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. (...) We decided to attack him". Israel received reports from the United States to the effect that Egyptian deployments were defensive and anticipatory of a ssible Israeli attack, and the US assessed that if anything, it was Israel that was pressing to begin hostilities.

Abba Eban, Israel's foreign minister during the war, later wrote in his autobiography that Nasser's assurances he wasn't planning to attack Israel were credible: "Nasser did not want war. He wanted victory without war." Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld has written that while the exact origins of the war may never be known, Israel's forces were "spoiling for a fight and willing to go to considerable lengths to provoke one".

bonus:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_of_S%C3%A8vres

the last israeli mobilization ended with israel, france and the UK invading egypt in 56. so maybe there's a reason they mobilized, i dunno.

[Alyakia]

you don't "win land fair and square" this isn't 1939 this isn't hearts of fucking iron

[Washington Resistance Army]

you don't "win land fair and square" this isn't 1939 this isn't hearts of fucking iron

Yeah! This is Darkest Hour

[Genivaria]

you don't "win land fair and square" this isn't 1939 this isn't hearts of fucking iron

Yeah! This is Darkest Hour

War every six years, holy lands, religious fanatics. No this is Crusader Kings.

[Benuty]

Yeah! This is Darkest Hour

War every six years, holy lands, religious fanatics. No this is Crusader Kings.

No this is an abortion is what this is.

[Leritorius]

http://emilysquotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/EmilysQuotes.Com-careful-newspapers-media-hate-people-opressed-mistake-politics-consequences-intelligent-Malcolm-X.jpg


Remember this, those who say they stand with Israel after watching CNN and similar sh*t.

[Alyakia]

War every six years, holy lands, religious fanatics. No this is Crusader Kings.

No this is an abortion is what this is.

this post made me look up abortion laws in israel. exactly what you'd expect really. (half of them are illegal because you need to go in front a committee to get approval and "i don't want a baby" isn't a good enough reason)

[Untaroicht]

Pro-Israel all the way...you know how "palestine" was created? The same fucking shit that happened to the jews since the beginning of time, they got conquered, had genocides, got slaughtered, got enslaved, and new foreign people moved in and stole their shit....in this particular case Arabs who wanted more lebensraum

The same thing happened with The Americas and Constantinople, but unlike the former the Jewish population wasn't completely exterminated (despite many, many people's best efforts)...and unlike the former the international community is giving a fuck, stepping in to this particular case, and giving the lands back to the people who belong there.

Zionism all the way! Israel for the Jews and Constantinople for the Greeks!

[Alyakia]

Pro-Israel all the way...you know how "palestine" was created? The same fucking shit that happened to the jews since the beginning of time, they got conquered, had genocides, got slaughtered, got enslaved, and new foreign people moved in and stole their shit....in this particular case Arabs who wanted more lebensraum

The same thing happened with The Americas and Constantinople, but unlike the former the Jewish population wasn't completely eradicated (despite many, many people's best efforts)...and unlike the former the international community is giving a fuck, stepping in, and giving the lands back to the people who belong there.

Zionism all the way!

so what you're saying is that the americans who stole the land should get out and give it back to the native americans? or is it ok now because they basically eradicated them so who cares no i only support this stuff when it doesn't affect me?

[Kassaran]

http://emilysquotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/EmilysQuotes.Com-careful-newspapers-media-hate-people-opressed-mistake-politics-consequences-intelligent-Malcolm-X.jpg


Remember this, those who say they stand with Israel after watching CNN and similar sh*t.

Could not this also be said of those who stand with the Palestinians? Also, the Arab nation in the beginning fired first. Palestinians provoked Jewish immigrants already in the area because of the set apart land, Jewish immigrants engaged in counter-hostilities, the Civil War began, then Palestine fell to Israel, Egypt, the Palestinian Remnants, Transjordan, Syria, and Iraq all engaged Israel. Israel beat them all back and took everything the Palestinians hadn't wanted to give up.

[South Panem]

I am and continue to be pro-Israel. Most people seem to forget that half of Palestine's government partly consists of the Hamas, a recognized terrorist organization. Israel has a right to defend itself from the unrelenting barrage of missiles from the Gaza Strip, and when retaliating exercises far more effort to prevent civilian deaths than any other government in the world. When America was targeted by terrorists, they flew half way around the world and invaded two countries, causing the death of over 60,000 civilians. They did not use a knock on the roof method, they did not even warn civilians of pending missile attacks. But did people and governing bodies such as the UN criticize America as much as Israel? Israel remains the target of double-standards and hypocritical criticism. Israel should, and has a right, to exist. [b]They have been indigenous to the region for thousands of years, longer than the Palestinians[/b. Also, Israel IS a secular democracy.

So the fact that Jews once lived there thousands of years ago makes it okay to bulldoze and occupy the homes of people that are living there TODAY?
Do the rights of Palestinians matter less then those of Israelis?

Palestinians do have rights. Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship exercise full rights such as voting. They retain the same rights as anyone else who has Israeli citizenship. Pertaining to the bulldozing and occupation of people's houses: Could you provide some evidence? And the construction of Israeli settlements: Many of these settlements exist in areas that were captured by Israel during the 6 day war, in which four middle eastern countries tried to invade. They lost a war that they instigated.

[Untaroicht]

Pro-Israel all the way...you know how "palestine" was created? The same fucking shit that happened to the jews since the beginning of time, they got conquered, had genocides, got slaughtered, got enslaved, and new foreign people moved in and stole their shit....in this particular case Arabs who wanted more lebensraum

The same thing happened with The Americas and Constantinople, but unlike the former the Jewish population wasn't completely eradicated (despite many, many people's best efforts)...and unlike the former the international community is giving a fuck, stepping in, and giving the lands back to the people who belong there.

Zionism all the way!

so what you're saying is that the americans who stole the land should get out and give it back to the native americans? or is it ok now because they basically eradicated them so who cares no i only support this stuff when it doesn't affect me?

Yes, I would agree for a de-colinization of the americas...except for the fact that there are only 2 million native americans left on the planet pretty much with 300 million americans in the U.S. alone, and because of this it would be logistically impossible to give all that land back to everyone.

And it's a fucking tragedy that such pristine civilizations like the Aztecs, Mayans, Incas, and various north american cultures like the Inuit, Apache, Sioux, etc. are now completely and utterly erased from history and the modern world

However, there's a whole nation of greeks asking for only one little city back....there's tens of millions of jews all over the world asking for their tiny slice of the planet to live in...it's not so hard to grant these things as the previous one.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

http://emilysquotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/EmilysQuotes.Com-careful-newspapers-media-hate-people-opressed-mistake-politics-consequences-intelligent-Malcolm-X.jpg


Remember this, those who say they stand with Israel after watching CNN and similar sh*t.

This

[Genivaria]

So the fact that Jews once lived there thousands of years ago makes it okay to bulldoze and occupy the homes of people that are living there TODAY?
Do the rights of Palestinians matter less then those of Israelis?

Palestinians do have rights. Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship exercise full rights such as voting. They retain the same rights as anyone else who has Israeli citizenship. Pertaining to the bulldozing and occupation of people's houses: Could you provide some evidence? And the construction of Israeli settlements: Many of these settlements exist in areas that were captured by Israel during the 6 day war, in which four middle eastern countries tried to invade. They lost a war that they instigated.

The international community considers the settlements in occupied territory to be illegal,[10] and the United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.[11][12] Israeli neighborhoods in East Jerusalem and communities in the Golan Heights, areas which have been annexed by Israel, are also considered settlements by the international community, which does not recognise Israel's annexations of these territories.[13] The International Court of Justice also says these settlements are illegal in a 2004 advisory opinion.[14][15][16] In April 2012, UN secretary general Ban Ki-Moon, in response to moves by Israel to legalise Israeli outposts, reiterated that all settlement activity is illegal, and "runs contrary to Israel's obligations under the Road Map and repeated Quartet calls for the parties to refrain from provocations."[17] Similar criticism was advanced by the EU and the US.[18][19] Israel disputes the position of the international community and the legal arguments that were used to declare the settlements illegal.[20]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

Amnesty International argues that Israel's settlement policy is discriminatory and a violation of Palestinian human rights.[134] B'Tselem claims that Israeli travel restrictions impact on Palestinian freedom of movement[135] and Palestinian human rights have been violated in Hebron due to the presence of the settlers within the city.[136][137][138] According to B'Tselem, over fifty percent of West Bank land expropriated from Palestinians has been used to establish settlements and create reserves of land for their future expansion. The seized lands mainly benefit the settlements and Palestinians cannot use them.[139] The roads built by Israel in the West Bank to serve the settlements are closed to Palestinian vehicles'[140][141] and act as a barrier often between villages and the lands on which they subsist.[142]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement#Effects_on_Palestinian_human_rights

[Alyakia]

So the fact that Jews once lived there thousands of years ago makes it okay to bulldoze and occupy the homes of people that are living there TODAY?
Do the rights of Palestinians matter less then those of Israelis?

Palestinians do have rights. Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship exercise full rights such as voting. They retain the same rights as anyone else who has Israeli citizenship. Pertaining to the bulldozing and occupation of people's houses: Could you provide some evidence? And the construction of Israeli settlements: Many of these settlements exist in areas that were captured by Israel during the 6 day war, in which four middle eastern countries tried to invade. They lost a war that they instigated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demo ... n_conflict

there's a whole article for this too

[Genivaria]

http://emilysquotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/EmilysQuotes.Com-careful-newspapers-media-hate-people-opressed-mistake-politics-consequences-intelligent-Malcolm-X.jpg


Remember this, those who say they stand with Israel after watching CNN and similar sh*t.

Could not this also be said of those who stand with the Palestinians? Also, the Arab nation in the beginning fired first. Palestinians provoked Jewish immigrants already in the area because of the set apart land, Jewish immigrants engaged in counter-hostilities, the Civil War began, then Palestine fell to Israel, Egypt, the Palestinian Remnants, Transjordan, Syria, and Iraq all engaged Israel. Israel beat them all back and took everything the Palestinians hadn't wanted to give up.

And which part of this justifies the murder of Palestinian civilians, destruction of homes, and theft of land?

[MERIZoC]

Bull absolute fucking shit.

Perhaps you could elaborate upon your remark, instead of perpetuating a very broad statement that is not backed by any arguments.

Wow, did you actually change your quote to not include the part I bolded? Talk about intellectual dishonesty...

[Mizrad]

The way I've always thought of the Israel situation is kind of interesting to me. If you were to imagine the shortest and weakest person you've ever met and then the tallest and strongest guy you've ever even heard, and then imagine the strong guy beating the hell out of the little guy since humanity spread out of Mesopotamia for thousands of years until one day a little over sixty years ago the little guy grew a thousand feet and become both insanely muscular and good at fighting then broke his tormentor in half. I would also like to point out that Israel is the world's only Jewish state and surrounded by the twenty two Arabic and Islamic states of the world then the fact they finally got their own country after being enslaved and victims of genocide for roughly 90% of humanity's existance. Oh and then we can talk about how they have a tiny strip of land compared to everybody else. I'm well aware of some of things they've done that have been far from good but tell it however you want, I'm still pro-Israel.

[South Panem]

Palestinians do have rights. Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship exercise full rights such as voting. They retain the same rights as anyone else who has Israeli citizenship. Pertaining to the bulldozing and occupation of people's houses: Could you provide some evidence? And the construction of Israeli settlements: Many of these settlements exist in areas that were captured by Israel during the 6 day war, in which four middle eastern countries tried to invade. They lost a war that they instigated.

The international community considers the settlements in occupied territory to be illegal,[10] and the United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.[11][12] Israeli neighborhoods in East Jerusalem and communities in the Golan Heights, areas which have been annexed by Israel, are also considered settlements by the international community, which does not recognise Israel's annexations of these territories.[13] The International Court of Justice also says these settlements are illegal in a 2004 advisory opinion.[14][15][16] In April 2012, UN secretary general Ban Ki-Moon, in response to moves by Israel to legalise Israeli outposts, reiterated that all settlement activity is illegal, and "runs contrary to Israel's obligations under the Road Map and repeated Quartet calls for the parties to refrain from provocations."[17] Similar criticism was advanced by the EU and the US.[18][19] Israel disputes the position of the international community and the legal arguments that were used to declare the settlements illegal.[20]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

Amnesty International argues that Israel's settlement policy is discriminatory and a violation of Palestinian human rights.[134] B'Tselem claims that Israeli travel restrictions impact on Palestinian freedom of movement[135] and Palestinian human rights have been violated in Hebron due to the presence of the settlers within the city.[136][137][138] According to B'Tselem, over fifty percent of West Bank land expropriated from Palestinians has been used to establish settlements and create reserves of land for their future expansion. The seized lands mainly benefit the settlements and Palestinians cannot use them.[139] The roads built by Israel in the West Bank to serve the settlements are closed to Palestinian vehicles'[140][141] and act as a barrier often between villages and the lands on which they subsist.[142]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement#Effects_on_Palestinian_human_rights

This is proof of the construction of settlements, which I am not denying. I am asking for proof of bulldozing current settlements and occupation of Palestinian homes. Also, the UN is regarded as biased against Israel.

[Vikipolis]

I'm pretty sure "Neutral", "IDGAF" and "Whatever" are synonyms.

Not really. Supporting neither Hamas nor Likud is a position that's distinct from apathy.

"IDGAF" and "Whatever" are, however, basically the same position; on that you're right.

I started with "IDGAF" and "Whatever"... ended up throwing "Neutral" in there. But now I share the same opinion you do.

back to the topic, I think the only logical option is "Anti-Hamas" because, Israel is buldozing and bulding settlements in palestine territory; on the other hand, Hamas has a military wing which makes it a terrorist organization in charge of a whole country. personally I think being neutral is never a good stance, not having an opinion is awful, only second to having an uninformed opinion

[Benuty]

I am and continue to be pro-Israel. Most people seem to forget that half of Palestine's government partly consists of the Hamas, a recognized terrorist organization. Israel has a right to defend itself from the unrelenting barrage of missiles from the Gaza Strip, and when retaliating exercises far more effort to prevent civilian deaths than any other government in the world. When America was targeted by terrorists, they flew half way around the world and invaded two countries, causing the death of over 60,000 civilians. They did not use a knock on the roof method, they did not even warn civilians of pending missile attacks. But did people even bat an eye? No. Israel remains the target of double-standards and hypocritical criticism. Israel should, and has a right, to exist. [b]They have been indigenous to the region for thousands of years, longer than the Palestinians[/b. Also, Israel IS a secular democracy.

So the fact that Jews once lived there thousands of years ago makes it okay to bulldoze and occupy the homes of people that are living there TODAY?
Do the rights of Palestinians matter less then those of Israelis?

What do you mean once?

[Avoxlia]

I like to point out it's very hypocritical for Western nations to criticise the formation of Israel over what it's alrady inhabited territory when nations such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United States were formed by European colonists at the expense of it's indigenous populations, regardless of what period of time these countries came into existence.

[South Panem]

Palestinians do have rights. Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship exercise full rights such as voting. They retain the same rights as anyone else who has Israeli citizenship. Pertaining to the bulldozing and occupation of people's houses: Could you provide some evidence? And the construction of Israeli settlements: Many of these settlements exist in areas that were captured by Israel during the 6 day war, in which four middle eastern countries tried to invade. They lost a war that they instigated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demo ... n_conflict

there's a whole article for this too

If you bothered to read the article you would know the purpose of the demolitions.
House demolition is typically justified by the IDF on the basis of:

Deterrence, achieved by harming the relatives of those who carry out, or are suspected of involvement in carrying out, attacks[3]
Counter-terrorism, by destroying militant facilities such as bombs labs, weapons factories, weapons and ammunition warehouses, headquarters, offices etc.[citation needed]
Legality, according to building and housing regulations[citation needed]
Forcing out an individual barricaded inside a house, which may be rigged House demolition is typically justified by the IDF on the basis of:

Deterrence, achieved by harming the relatives of those who carry out, or are suspected of involvement in carrying out, attacks[3]
Counter-terrorism, by destroying militant facilities such as bombs labs, weapons factories, weapons and ammunition warehouses, headquarters, offices etc.
Legality, according to building and housing regulations
Forcing out an individual barricaded inside a house, which may be rigged with explosives, without risking soldiers' lives
Self-defence, by destroying possible hideouts and rocket propelled grenade/gun posts[8]
Combat engineering, clearing a path for tanks and heavy armoured personnel carriers
Destroying structures rigged with booby traps and explosives in order to prevent risk to soldiers and civilians with explosives, without risking soldiers' lives
Self-defence, by destroying possible hideouts and rocket propelled grenade/gun posts[8]
Combat engineering, clearing a path for tanks and heavy armoured personnel carriers
Destroying structures rigged with booby traps and explosives in order to prevent risk to soldiers and civilians

[Aikayla]

I like to point out it's very hypocritical for Western nations to criticise the formation of Israel over what it's alrady inhabited territory when nations such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United States were formed by European colonists at the expense of it's indigenous populations, regardless of what period of time these countries came into existence.

what if we are a nation that has histoircally been oppressed but still has a relatively pro-palestine government?