Religion Discussion Thread

[Neutraligon]

No it was rhetorical. You shouldn't be.

Ironically, most religions ignore this obviously rhetorical question.

If they are virtuous according to their religion, they have control over death. When they die, their souls leave their body and become immortal, avoiding death.

AS I said there is an evolutionary advantage to fear death. Religions try to remove that fear by having life continue after death, either through an immortal soul or through reincarnation.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Ironically, most religions ignore this obviously rhetorical question.

If they are virtuous according to their religion, they have control over death. When they die, their souls leave their body and become immortal, avoiding death.

AS I said there is an evolutionary advantage to fear death. Religions try to remove that fear by having life continue after death, either through an immortal soul or through reincarnation.

I shall quote the Gospel of Webber, "To conquer death, you only have to die."

[Lalaki]

I think a friendly group of agnostics, soft atheists, and religious moderates could build-up the most religiously tolerant society.

We already have one. It's called the USA.

The US is relatively tolerant, but we can see that there are many forces in American society that do not make us compatible with the description I provided.

On a brighter note, the United States ranks lower in religious hostility than many European nations. So we are ahead in that area.

[Bearon]

We already have one. It's called the USA.

The US is relatively tolerant, but we can see that there are many forces in American society that do not make us compatible with the description I provided.

On a brighter note, the United States ranks lower in religious hostility than many European nations. So we are ahead in that area.

America is a good country overall I think. Though I'm an optimist.

[Lalaki]

The US is relatively tolerant, but we can see that there are many forces in American society that do not make us compatible with the description I provided.

On a brighter note, the United States ranks lower in religious hostility than many European nations. So we are ahead in that area.

America is a good country overall I think. Though I'm an optimist.

The United States is a good nation. We lag behind in many aspects, and we need to improve. But we do have a relatively good track record. I couldn't see myself living anywhere else, though I do know that Canada and EU nations have better health care and social welfare systems. Rather then abandon my country, I want to help fix it.

[Neutraligon]

America is a good country overall I think. Though I'm an optimist.

The United States is a good nation. We lag behind in many aspects, and we need to improve. But we do have a relatively good track record. I couldn't see myself living anywhere else, though I do know that Canada and EU nations have better health care and social welfare systems. Rather then abandon my country, I want to help fix it.

What was that quote:
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else. Winston Churchill...possibly.

[Kumuri]

AS I said there is an evolutionary advantage to fear death.

I like to say that being afraid to die makes me an evolutionary success, and not a total pansy.

As for religion itself- I despise it. Not the people who hold it, necessarily, but religion. Now if the person who holds it is an asshole, on the other hand, I'll despise them AND their religion.

[Serretes]

AS I said there is an evolutionary advantage to fear death.

I like to say that being afraid to die makes me an evolutionary success, and not a total pansy.

As for religion itself- I despise it. Not the people who hold it, necessarily, but religion. Now if the person who holds it is an asshole, on the other hand, I'll despise them AND their religion.

Why would you despise religion?
And when we are talking about the past, religion sort of kept everyone from doing whatever they wanted. If they feared divine consequences for killing someone, then they probably wouldn’t do it.

[Neutraligon]

I like to say that being afraid to die makes me an evolutionary success, and not a total pansy.

As for religion itself- I despise it. Not the people who hold it, necessarily, but religion. Now if the person who holds it is an asshole, on the other hand, I'll despise them AND their religion.

Why would you despise religion?
And when we are talking about the past, religion sort of kept everyone from doing whatever they wanted. If they feared divine consequences for killing someone, then they probably wouldn’t do it.

Considering the wars and death in the past this is clearly not true.

[Kumuri]

haha meow meow

[Serretes]

Why would you despise religion?
And when we are talking about the past, religion sort of kept everyone from doing whatever they wanted. If they feared divine consequences for killing someone, then they probably wouldn’t do it.

Considering the wars and death in the past this is clearly not true.

Fair enough. Don’t know what I was thinking. Religion is sort of like a moral code for people to follow, especially Christians, even if they don’t follow it.

[Neutraligon]

Considering the wars and death in the past this is clearly not true.

Fair enough. Don’t know what I was thinking. Religion is sort of like a moral code for people to follow, especially Christians, even if they don’t follow it.

Not sure I agree with that, especially considering they pick and choose which part of the code they are going to follow. I said it before in this thread. Rather than religion being the moral guide that is followed, the religious teachings are filtered through a persons already existant moral guide. We don't stone people for disrespecting mom and dad.

[Serretes]

Fair enough. Don’t know what I was thinking. Religion is sort of like a moral code for people to follow, especially Christians, even if they don’t follow it.

Not sure I agree with that, especially considering they pick and choose which part of the code they are going to follow.

As I said, they don’t follow the code set out by their own god, but they have the choice. And even if they don’t follow the code, a certain amount of fear for incurring their god’s displeasure, abounds.

[Kumuri]

It also doesn't help that religion is a huge barrier between me and a certain beloved family member. She doesn't know how I feel about it, and it should stay that way. She's very devoted to her religion, and thinks I am too, and says her worst fear is to find out that I don't believe in God. But it's so hard sometimes to live a lie, even if it's to keep someone from getting hurt.

[Serretes]

RETCONNED

[Kumuri]

It also doesn't help that religion is a huge barrier between me and a certain beloved family member. She doesn't know how I feel about it, and it should stay that way. She's very devoted to her religion, and thinks I am too, and says her worst fear is to find out that I don't believe in God. But it's so hard sometimes to live a lie, even if it's to keep someone from getting hurt.

I deal with the same, and it’s difficult. My grandparents want nothing more than for me to be a priest or at the very least a devout Catholic. As you can probably tell, I’m not. I’ve kept it shielded from my family for quite some time, and won’t reveal it until my grandparents leave this world.

I figure it's for the better. What they don't know can't hurt them.

[Serretes]

RETCONNED

[Al-Orthodoxia]

Now, let's assume that the statement in Genesis is true, namely, that (Genesis 1:27) So God created man[kind] in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

This implies that, every human, no matter if he's man or woman, black or white, heterosexual or homosexual, without or with a mental handicap etc etc has some part of God in him or herself.

This implies that every human is, by implication, divine by himself. He is a part of God, since God created mankind in his own image. And, this is purely personal, in my interpretation this is seen as love.

No, I am not only talking about romantic love which is just one aspect of love, but also brotherly love, parental love, love for thy neighbors and so on. Why was Jesus seen as divine? Because he loved people, he loved everyone. Therefore I believe that loving persons is divine.

Now, to get back on OP's question about scripts, if they are believable or not. I'm firstly want to say that I do not intend to insult anyone with what I am going to say now.

Firstly, knowing that love is something divine and we have to be precious about, we should also know that there is also evil in this world (how this comes is another question I am not trying to start now, since I can not answer this question). One of these evils is greed, greed to rule, greed to process, greed to flesh and you can go on. You can say that greed is serving one's ego while love is serving the community (and yourself too in long term).

Knowing that man possess both greed and love, and knowing that not only the Bible but also Quran, Thorah etc etc has been written over a long timespan and not only by one person, it is also easy to say it is not 100% divine and therefore not 100% correct. This does not imply that certain parts that are about love aren't necessarily good, but I think you know what I mean.

Again, this is all my personal believe, and I do not state this is true.

[Othelos]

Fair enough. Don’t know what I was thinking. Religion is sort of like a moral code for people to follow, especially Christians, even if they don’t follow it.

Not sure I agree with that, especially considering they pick and choose which part of the code they are going to follow. I said it before in this thread. Rather than religion being the moral guide that is followed, the religious teachings are filtered through a persons already existant moral guide. We don't stone people for disrespecting mom and dad.

that's definitely true.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Now, let's assume that the statement in Genesis is true, namely, that (Genesis 1:27) So God created man[kind] in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

This implies that, every human, no matter if he's man or woman, black or white, heterosexual or homosexual, without or with a mental handicap etc etc has some part of God in him or herself.

This implies that every human is, by implication, divine by himself. He is a part of God, since God created mankind in his own image. And, this is purely personal, in my interpretation this is seen as love.

No, I am not only talking about romantic love which is just one aspect of love, but also brotherly love, parental love, love for thy neighbors and so on. Why was Jesus seen as divine? Because he loved people, he loved everyone. Therefore I believe that loving persons is divine.

Now, to get back on OP's question about scripts, if they are believable or not. I'm firstly want to say that I do not intend to insult anyone with what I am going to say now.

Firstly, knowing that love is something divine and we have to be precious about, we should also know that there is also evil in this world (how this comes is another question I am not trying to start now, since I can not answer this question). One of these evils is greed, greed to rule, greed to process, greed to flesh and you can go on. You can say that greed is serving one's ego while love is serving the community (and yourself too in long term).

Knowing that man possess both greed and love, and knowing that not only the Bible but also Quran, Thorah etc etc has been written over a long timespan and not only by one person, it is also easy to say it is not 100% divine and therefore not 100% correct. This does not imply that certain parts that are about love aren't necessarily good, but I think you know what I mean.

Again, this is all my personal believe, and I do not state this is true.

Unfortunately this follows the folly of taking something out of context.

1. Because something is created does not make it a part of the creator. I can build a statue in my own image, and It's not a part of me. The idea of art being a "piece of the creator" is not a literal idea, but figurative one which is a romanticization of art. So human is not divine. It does imply however, that each person is intrinsically valuble.

2. Even if man were part divine, man was corrupted during the fall and ceaased to be divine.

3. Jesus isn't considered divine simply because he loved people, he's considered divine because A. He is believed to be the literal Son of God, part of the Holy Trinity that is God. and B. he lived a corruption and sin free life.


This doesn't take away from your point though that loving is divine. This is true.


Also the Bible isn't 100% factually correct, it wasn't intended to be. Inerrency refers to religious intent not inerrancy of content.

[Al-Orthodoxia]

Now, let's assume that the statement in Genesis is true, namely, that (Genesis 1:27) So God created man[kind] in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

This implies that, every human, no matter if he's man or woman, black or white, heterosexual or homosexual, without or with a mental handicap etc etc has some part of God in him or herself.

This implies that every human is, by implication, divine by himself. He is a part of God, since God created mankind in his own image. And, this is purely personal, in my interpretation this is seen as love.

No, I am not only talking about romantic love which is just one aspect of love, but also brotherly love, parental love, love for thy neighbors and so on. Why was Jesus seen as divine? Because he loved people, he loved everyone. Therefore I believe that loving persons is divine.

Now, to get back on OP's question about scripts, if they are believable or not. I'm firstly want to say that I do not intend to insult anyone with what I am going to say now.

Firstly, knowing that love is something divine and we have to be precious about, we should also know that there is also evil in this world (how this comes is another question I am not trying to start now, since I can not answer this question). One of these evils is greed, greed to rule, greed to process, greed to flesh and you can go on. You can say that greed is serving one's ego while love is serving the community (and yourself too in long term).

Knowing that man possess both greed and love, and knowing that not only the Bible but also Quran, Thorah etc etc has been written over a long timespan and not only by one person, it is also easy to say it is not 100% divine and therefore not 100% correct. This does not imply that certain parts that are about love aren't necessarily good, but I think you know what I mean.

Again, this is all my personal believe, and I do not state this is true.

Unfortunately this follows the folly of taking something out of context.

1. Because something is created does not make it a part of the creator. I can build a statue in my own image, and It's not a part of me. The idea of art being a "piece of the creator" is not a literal idea, but figurative one which is a romanticization of art. So human is not divine. It does imply however, that each person is intrinsically valuble.

2. Even if man were part divine, man was corrupted during the fall and ceaased to be divine.

3. Jesus isn't considered divine simply because he loved people, he's considered divine because A. He is believed to be the literal Son of God, part of the Holy Trinity that is God. and B. he lived a corruption and sin free life.


This doesn't take away from your point though that loving is divine. This is true.


Also the Bible isn't 100% factually correct, it wasn't intended to be. Inerrency refers to religious intent not inerrancy of content.

I want to go to point three though. Wasn't it assumed that he is part of the Holy Trinity 300 years after his death?

[Murkwood]

Fine, we're second.

Not even close. The law is the thin curtain that prevents all out holy war in this country. 1. we got sharia law constantly making a ruckus in the legal system, 2. evangelicals wanting to pitch all non evangelicals and gays into the sea, 3. atheists trying to scrub all public life of any semblance of religion, if there is religious tolerance it is only a thin veneer.

1. Sharia? Not even close.
2. Every country has a few nuts.
3. See above.

Compare the US to China (Fulan Gong) or Europe (Extreme antisemitism and islamophboia).

[Ashmoria]

I figure it's for the better. What they don't know can't hurt them.

I agree. I don’t want my grandparents to die, thinking they are failures because I am not Catholic, I don’t need them to try to force me to go to therapy, I don’t need my relatives cursing me because of my beliefs. So for now, I suffer through every Mass, Benediction, Vespers, religious talk, and Papal movie they take me to.
No need to hurt someone, just because you see the world differently.

do you live in the US?

[Serretes]

RETCONNED

[Ashmoria]

do you live in the US?

Yes I do.

oh good.

if you want to get your family off your back about religion you have to let them know that it could be much much worse. start a campaign of suggesting that you are experimenting with drugs/getting into petty crime/dating a bad girl or boy/you might be gay/you might have created an unintended pregnancy/you are considering Satanism--whatever few things are your family's worst nightmares. then when you are just ....unsure...about religion their friends will re-inforce how lucky they are that its just teenaged thoughtfulness about theology and not something that will end you up on death row.

sometimes parents need a bit of perspective on what "bad" really is.

....

you don't have to DO any of those things, just make them think that they may be happening while you are outside their control.