Sea Shepherd vs Whalers battle goes high tech

[Mean Feat]

Vigilantism was wrong when Batman did it and its wrong now. Not that the whalers are wonderful people, but that doesn't make it any better.

It really shouldn't be personal. It shouldn't be about the people working on the whaling ship, but about what they're doing.

Outside of national laws, this is a lawless kind of "free market" competition. One lot want to kill a whale, the other lot want to keep the whale alive. They each have reasons, and neither lot recognize the reasons of the other as legitimate.

But we should be able to say that neither side should directly and deliberately harm the sailors on the other vessel. That's piracy, as would be boarding each others vessel, deliberately ramming each other, or damaging each others property. Both sides are getting alarmingly close to piracy, and independent observers are needed.

Because the Japanese government subsidizes whaling, I don't consider Japanese naval vessels to be independent observers.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

I agree with the 'both sides are dicks' posts.

I must, however, hand it to the whalers. They didn't make a show about the whole thing where they whine about how those damn dirty Sea Shepherds are actually FIGHTING BACK. I mean, how DARE they shoot at you with water cannons when you're hurling stink bombs at them! The nerve! The outrage!

I take this to mean previously when the Sea Shepherds got sprayed for chucking stink bombs, they made a lot of noise about it?

They made a show on Animal Planet about it. I never saw it, myself, but the commercials painted the Sea Shepherds as a bunch of whiny babies.

[Gun Manufacturers]

I agree with the 'both sides are dicks' posts.

I must, however, hand it to the whalers. They didn't make a show about the whole thing where they whine about how those damn dirty Sea Shepherds are actually FIGHTING BACK. I mean, how DARE they shoot at you with water cannons when you're hurling stink bombs at them! The nerve! The outrage!

I take this to mean previously when the Sea Shepherds got sprayed for chucking stink bombs, they made a lot of noise about it?

They made a show on Animal Planet about it. I never saw it, myself, but the commercials painted the Sea Shepherds as a bunch of whiny babies.

One of my friends calls "Whale Wars" the battle of the assholes, because both sides act like it.

BTW, Sea Shepherds also use powdered cellulose, because when it gets wet, it makes the decks of the whaling ships too slippery to work on.

[Lacadaemon]

They're using those research permits to continue commercial harvests of whales. That contavenes the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES).

So the japanese are researching how they taste. Fact it they have the permits.

[Greed and Death]

They're using those research permits to continue commercial harvests of whales. That contavenes the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES).

So the japanese are researching how they taste. Fact it they have the permits.

I say they are researching the whales. And then saying well the whale is dead, why not follow the rules of waste not want not.

[Gun Manufacturers]

They're using those research permits to continue commercial harvests of whales. That contavenes the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES).

So the japanese are researching how they taste. Fact it they have the permits.

I say they are researching the whales. And then saying well the whale is dead, why not follow the rules of waste not want not.

I think that according to the IWC treaty, any whale taken for scientific research can't be wasted.

[Greed and Death]

They're using those research permits to continue commercial harvests of whales. That contavenes the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES).

So the japanese are researching how they taste. Fact it they have the permits.

I say they are researching the whales. And then saying well the whale is dead, why not follow the rules of waste not want not.

I think that according to the IWC treaty, any whale taken for scientific research can't be wasted.

There you go the Japanese have a legal obligation to eat those whales.
In fact I will make a trip to go help them fulfill their obligation because whale meat taste good.

[Verzia]

Those sea shepherd guys are dicks.

So are the whalers. And both are breaking laws.

Which makes this a dick fencing match.

if anyone saw the episode of south park where Cartman become the leader of the sea shepherds, than you will agree.

[Israslovakahzerbajan]

I doubt blaming an entire people for the actions of a few is a good idea, or a sencible one. The translator in the Steve Irwin is Japanese...by the whale's logic we should be fat, arogant, gunslingers who block out it's sonar with our warships.

[Tahar Joblis]

So the japanese are researching how they taste. Fact it they have the permits.

The fact is that if they're selling whale meat in Japan, then it's definitely a commercial operation, and therefore illegal per treaty no matter how it is papered over with research permits.

Norway and Japan have been dragging their feet on the whaling issue for a very long time without particularly good reason. Neither country in any way needs to whale; they just have a domestic market for whale meat and don't want to knuckle to Greenpeace. If sale or trade of whale products harvested for "scientific" purposes was banned, you'd probably see Japanese "research" whaling disappear within a couple years at the most.

It's absurd that we're still working at killing off the brainiest creatures on Earth. I guess that's why Douglas Adams put us in third place behind the mice, eh?

[Traxa]

The Japanese are exploiting a loophole in the treaty which states no part of a harvested whale can be wasted. They're doing nothing illegal just being clever and exploiting a legality, something that happens daily in a plethora of treaties, business dealings, even criminal law proceedings.

Despite the moral issue over the loophole there's nothing legally wrong with the whaling.

I'm actually glad they did a show about Sea Shepard, since by in large its succeeded in giving all of the "save the environment!" nuts a bad image as if PETA wasn't doing that enough on their own already. But alas you'll always have something for the environmentalists to bitch and moan about.

[Greed and Death]

So the japanese are researching how they taste. Fact it they have the permits.

The fact is that if they're selling whale meat in Japan, then it's definitely a commercial operation, and therefore illegal per treaty no matter how it is papered over with research permits.

Norway and Japan have been dragging their feet on the whaling issue for a very long time without particularly good reason. Neither country in any way needs to whale; they just have a domestic market for whale meat and don't want to knuckle to Greenpeace. If sale or trade of whale products harvested for "scientific" purposes was banned, you'd probably see Japanese "research" whaling disappear within a couple years at the most.

It's absurd that we're still working at killing off the brainiest creatures on Earth. I guess that's why Douglas Adams put us in third place behind the mice, eh?

No they are selling the whale meat to fund more research of the inedible parts.
those PHD holding whalers are not cheap you know.

[Lacadaemon]

So the japanese are researching how they taste. Fact it they have the permits.

The fact is that if they're selling whale meat in Japan, then it's definitely a commercial operation, and therefore illegal per treaty no matter how it is papered over with research permits.

I hardly think so. I have no idea how Japan interprets its own body of international law, but they seem to believe that they are doing nothing wrong under the treaty apparently. If it was illegal, they wouldn't be doing it, would they?

Norway and Japan have been dragging their feet on the whaling issue for a very long time without particularly good reason. Neither country in any way needs to whale; they just have a domestic market for whale meat and don't want to knuckle to Greenpeace. If sale or trade of whale products harvested for "scientific" purposes was banned, you'd probably see Japanese "research" whaling disappear within a couple years at the most.

Teh US, Canada, Greenland and some others also allow whaling. I don't see why fingers should be pointed only at Japan.

[H N Fiddlebottoms VIII]

Those sea shepherd guys are dicks.

So are the whalers. And both are breaking laws.

The whalers, at least, aren't being whiny little hypocrites about the whole deal.

The Ady Gil crew tried to temporarily blind the Japanese crew with lasers ... Sea Shepherd accused the Japanese of using crowd-control sound technology known as a Long Range Acoustic Devices, or LRADs, as well as water cannon against the Ady Gil crew.

"We attacked them and they responded with equivalent measures! Waah!Waah!Waah!" <-- That part right there is what removes all sympathy I might have had for the anti-whalers and their cause. Fuck the whales, they've had it coming ever since the great white one ate my grandpappy's leg, smashed two of his ships and later dragged him to a watery grave.

[Tahar Joblis]

I hardly think so. I have no idea how Japan interprets its own body of international law, but they seem to believe that they are doing nothing wrong under the treaty apparently. If it was illegal, they wouldn't be doing it, would they?

Well, that depends on your interpretation of the treaty, doesn't it? Sometimes nations violate treaties. It happens quite a bit, actually.

Teh US, Canada, Greenland and some others also allow whaling. I don't see why fingers should be pointed only at Japan.

Those three pretty much only on the basis of allowing the Inuit to practice "traditional whaling."

Norway and Japan are the biggest whalers. Iceland has been doing some, too. Japan gets fingers pointed at it because it's been on board with the IWC the whole time, while Norway refused to sign on to the moratorium.

[Greed and Death]

So the japanese are researching how they taste. Fact it they have the permits.

The fact is that if they're selling whale meat in Japan, then it's definitely a commercial operation, and therefore illegal per treaty no matter how it is papered over with research permits.

I hardly think so. I have no idea how Japan interprets its own body of international law, but they seem to believe that they are doing nothing wrong under the treaty apparently. If it was illegal, they wouldn't be doing it, would they?

Norway and Japan have been dragging their feet on the whaling issue for a very long time without particularly good reason. Neither country in any way needs to whale; they just have a domestic market for whale meat and don't want to knuckle to Greenpeace. If sale or trade of whale products harvested for "scientific" purposes was banned, you'd probably see Japanese "research" whaling disappear within a couple years at the most.

Teh US, Canada, Greenland and some others also allow whaling. I don't see why fingers should be pointed only at Japan.

Japan is within the reach of the treaties.
IWC allows for nations to opt out/ignore various rulings. If they file a formal complaint, which is how they ignore the south ocean whale conservation.
The numbers they get research permits for are given under the IWC.
If they dumped the whale carcasses back into the sea would the hippies be any happier ?

[Leistung]

Greens senator Bob Brown yesterday lashed out at the Federal Government for not doing more to protect the Sea Shepherd crews.

In other news, Republicans blasted Obama for cracking down on crime.

[Gauthier]

Greens senator Bob Brown yesterday lashed out at the Federal Government for not doing more to protect the Sea Shepherd crews.

In other news, Republicans blasted Obama for cracking down on crime.

The fact that a Republican blasted Obama for not protecting a bunch of anti-industrial environmentalist hippies is even more hilariously ironic. And hypocritical.

[Lacadaemon]

Well, that depends on your interpretation of the treaty, doesn't it? Sometimes nations violate treaties. It happens quite a bit, actually.

Doesn't matter how I interpret it. The only thing that matters is how they interpret it. Maybe next time they'll have the foresight to put in an enforcement mechanism in like the WTO did. Anyway, as Greed and Death pointed out, seemingly they are acting well within the confines of the treaty as it stands.

Honestly though, if they feel that strongly about it, they'd probably be better off taking all the money they spent on 'batboats' and starting an anti-whaling campaign thingy in Japan. Until the Japanese actually change their mind about this, I doubt very much will be accomplished by being drama queens in the Southern Ocean.

Or New Zealand could invade Japan, I suppose.

[Gauthier]

Well, that depends on your interpretation of the treaty, doesn't it? Sometimes nations violate treaties. It happens quite a bit, actually.

Doesn't matter how I interpret it. The only thing that matters is how they interpret it. Maybe next time they'll have the foresight to put in an enforcement mechanism in like the WTO did. Anyway, as Greed and Death pointed out, seemingly they are acting well within the confines of the treaty as it stands.

Honestly though, if they feel that strongly about it, they'd probably be better off taking all the money they spent on 'batboats' and starting an anti-whaling campaign thingy in Japan. Until the Japanese actually change their mind about this, I doubt very much will be accomplished by being drama queens in the Southern Ocean.

Or New Zealand could invade Japan, I suppose.

They're just like PETA. More obcessed with publicity and attention whoring than actually getting an effective campaign carried out.

[Brogavia]

They are not pirates. They are worthless, attention whoring douches.

Wow, throwing smelly butter at people who butcher animals all day is totally going to work!

All this proves is that SS are a bunch of dipshits that are supported by trust fund babies that want to make themselves feel better because mommy and daddy are rich.

[Ifreann]

Well, that depends on your interpretation of the treaty, doesn't it? Sometimes nations violate treaties. It happens quite a bit, actually.

Doesn't matter how I interpret it. The only thing that matters is how they interpret it. Maybe next time they'll have the foresight to put in an enforcement mechanism in like the WTO did. Anyway, as Greed and Death pointed out, seemingly they are acting well within the confines of the treaty as it stands.

Honestly though, if they feel that strongly about it, they'd probably be better off taking all the money they spent on 'batboats' and starting an anti-whaling campaign thingy in Japan. Until the Japanese actually change their mind about this, I doubt very much will be accomplished by being drama queens in the Southern Ocean.

Or New Zealand could invade Japan, I suppose.

With bat boats.

[Gauthier]

Well, that depends on your interpretation of the treaty, doesn't it? Sometimes nations violate treaties. It happens quite a bit, actually.

Doesn't matter how I interpret it. The only thing that matters is how they interpret it. Maybe next time they'll have the foresight to put in an enforcement mechanism in like the WTO did. Anyway, as Greed and Death pointed out, seemingly they are acting well within the confines of the treaty as it stands.

Honestly though, if they feel that strongly about it, they'd probably be better off taking all the money they spent on 'batboats' and starting an anti-whaling campaign thingy in Japan. Until the Japanese actually change their mind about this, I doubt very much will be accomplished by being drama queens in the Southern Ocean.

Or New Zealand could invade Japan, I suppose.

With bat boats.

Until Japan decides enough is enough and counters with their high-tech navy, including this scary masterpiece:

[The Valepian Lands]

They'll get what's coming to them...

[South Norwega]

Well, that depends on your interpretation of the treaty, doesn't it? Sometimes nations violate treaties. It happens quite a bit, actually.

Doesn't matter how I interpret it. The only thing that matters is how they interpret it. Maybe next time they'll have the foresight to put in an enforcement mechanism in like the WTO did. Anyway, as Greed and Death pointed out, seemingly they are acting well within the confines of the treaty as it stands.

Honestly though, if they feel that strongly about it, they'd probably be better off taking all the money they spent on 'batboats' and starting an anti-whaling campaign thingy in Japan. Until the Japanese actually change their mind about this, I doubt very much will be accomplished by being drama queens in the Southern Ocean.

Or New Zealand could invade Japan, I suppose.

With bat boats.

Until Japan decides enough is enough and counters with their high-tech navy, including this scary masterpiece:

Not even the Japanese Navy can defeat the Royal New Zealand Air Force.