Malaysian Airliner crashes in Ukraine

[OMGeverynameistaken]

My point is the separatists are not Russia, no matter how "pro-Russian" they may be. Their actions do not reflect Russia's foreign policy or intent. Hell, it even seems that the separatists didn't shoot the plane down on purpose. Some untrained militiaman probably saw a blip on the radar and shot the thing off without bothering to think what he might be targeting.

It's a tragic, insane accident. It's not cause to start WWIII because "the West" decides to rush in and beat up Russia over a group of Russian fanboys being dumbasses and playing with toys they don't know how to use.

Oh please, that's what the Russians said about the Korean Airlines flight back in the 80s...

Oh, OK.

You're right.

You've convinced me.

Lets just nuke Russia without bothering to investigate anything. Because something happened in the vicinity of Russia and therefore it is Russia's fault, we should just throw away the lives of a few billion people.

[Roski]

Oh please, that's what the Russians said about the Korean Airlines flight back in the 80s...

Oh, OK.

You're right.

You've convinced me.

Lets just nuke Russia without bothering to investigate anything. Because something happened in the vicinity of Russia and therefore it is Russia's fault, we should just throw away the lives of a few billion people.

We can always make more, right?

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

And so? If ISIS took over Chinese nukes and launched it at America, is it the Chinese's fault? What's the point you're trying to make? It doesn't matter whose equipment they used, it's who used the equipment, period.

Lets fix this analogy.

1st We are dealing with a separatist faction domestic to the country. So instead of ISIS nuking the US, lets say the New Confederate states of America Nuked the US.

2nd The weapons were not taken from Russia they were given. So instead of the Confederate states of America invading China to get nukes to nuke the US, China gives the nuclear weapons to the confederate state of the US.

So yes if China gives nuclear weapons to the confederate states of the US, China would have a degree of moral responsibility for the use of those nuclear weapons.

Wow, so basically it's Ukraine's fault for failing to defend its military bases from terrorists...

[Slavija Slovenska]

EXACTLY! and the question is…who used the equipment? Have the separatists been supplied by the Ruskies?

I wonder what weapons most the separatists are using? They sure aren't American...

Doesn't mean its obviously Russian. The IRA were supplied by stealing from the British, and getting them from Gaddafi and the PLO

[Costa Fierro]

Buk missile system allegedly in an area controlled by rebels.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Oh please, that's what the Russians said about the Korean Airlines flight back in the 80s...

Oh, OK.

You're right.

You've convinced me.

Lets just nuke Russia without bothering to investigate anything. Because something happened in the vicinity of Russia and therefore it is Russia's fault, we should just throw away the lives of a few billion people.

Sigh... I never said anything about nuking or war, what I want is justice and punishment, plus international tougher consequences...

[Roski]

(Image)

Buk missile system allegedly in an area controlled by rebels.

If that's the type of shit the rebels are packing, its going to be a long civil war.

[Threayce]

So, given this thread is 36 pages in, is there a general consensus on what actually happened?

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

I wonder what weapons most the separatists are using? They sure aren't American...

Doesn't mean its obviously Russian. The IRA were supplied by stealing from the British, and getting them from Gaddafi and the PLO

The Irish and terrorists are two different things.

[Costa Fierro]

So, given this thread is 36 pages in, is there a general consensus on what actually happened?

Well, at this stage, we do believe it was shot down by Russian separatists. Planes usually don't break up mid air for no apparent reason.

[Trygg]

295, 280 passengers, 15 crew members.

Why do the Europeans always forget about the help?

I'm not European, and I didn't post an exact number. Shoot me.

Well, what are you then? I believe the point of greed and death's comment was to know what you're talking about before you start bashing people.

The ironic thing is Ukraine probably bought the missile system from Russia, or the Russian's left it there after the breakdown of the U.S.S.R. At this point, Russia is going to be held responsible by the world community. I wouldn't be surprised if they're forced to give back the Crimea.

[Roski]

So, given this thread is 36 pages in, is there a general consensus on what actually happened?

Ukrainian Seperatists have a Buk Missile system (Whether stolen or given, we do not know), fired at the Malaysian jet and killed all people on board.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Oh, OK.

You're right.

You've convinced me.

Lets just nuke Russia without bothering to investigate anything. Because something happened in the vicinity of Russia and therefore it is Russia's fault, we should just throw away the lives of a few billion people.

Sigh... I never said anything about nuking or war, what I want is justice and punishment, plus international tougher consequences...

Justice requires evidence and due process. Right now, all we've got to go on is hearsay, speculation and an alleged 'confession' produced by the Ukrainians.

So maybe just cool your jets for a while and wait until some actual facts emerge from this mess.

[The Scientific States]

So, given this thread is 36 pages in, is there a general consensus on what actually happened?

Ukrainian Seperatists have a Buk Missile system (Whether stolen or given, we do not know), fired at the Malaysian jet and killed all people on board.

And, why do you think it's Ukrainian separatists?

[Slavija Slovenska]

Doesn't mean its obviously Russian. The IRA were supplied by stealing from the British, and getting them from Gaddafi and the PLO

The Irish and terrorists are two different things.

I never said the IRA were terrorists…believe me its a lot more to it so I know for a fact what splinter groups are labeled, aren't labeled, and what the British have labeled them. The Irish people themselves aren't terrorists but I'm just saying the IRA was supplied by some one in the middle east and they did receive private funding from US citizens! So is it not likely that yes the separatists got their weapons from the russians but also from an out of sight country? Possibly

[Threayce]

So, given this thread is 36 pages in, is there a general consensus on what actually happened?

Ukrainian Seperatists have a Buk Missile system (Whether stolen or given, we do not know), fired at the Malaysian jet and killed all people on board.

Well, based off of this description, sounds like a textbook proxy attack.

Why, I couldn't tell you.

[Slavija Slovenska]

So, given this thread is 36 pages in, is there a general consensus on what actually happened?

Well, at this stage, we do believe it was shot down by Russian separatists. Planes usually don't break up mid air for no apparent reason.

LOST haha

[The Serbian Empire]

(Image)

Buk missile system allegedly in an area controlled by rebels.

It's impressive looking. The question is did the rebels get it from Russia or stolen from an armory.

[Roski]

Ukrainian Seperatists have a Buk Missile system (Whether stolen or given, we do not know), fired at the Malaysian jet and killed all people on board.

And, why do you think it's Ukrainian separatists?

The Russian Federation doesn't have a reason to shoot it down, nor has given any evidence that they are now shooting down civilian craft.
Russian Radar can also tell the difference between Fighters and Commercial jets, while the Seperatists can't.

Meanwhile, Ukraine doesn't have anything capable near by where it was supposedly shot down, its very far inside seperatist territory.

[Slavija Slovenska]

(Image)

Buk missile system allegedly in an area controlled by rebels.

It's impressive looking. The question is did the rebels get it from Russia or stolen from an armory.

That kind of weaponry might have been stolen. I mean if Russia gave that thing to some one do you think it would go unnoticed?

[Costa Fierro]

Ukrainian Seperatists have a Buk Missile system (Whether stolen or given, we do not know), fired at the Malaysian jet and killed all people on board.

And, why do you think it's Ukrainian separatists?

Because this bloke allegedly said "don't fly in our air space" on Russian social media, not to mention they are the sorts of people without the discipline to determine whether or not the blip on an SAM radar is civilian or military. And the rebels have shot down aircraft before.

[The Serbian Empire]

And, why do you think it's Ukrainian separatists?

The Russian Federation doesn't have a reason to shoot it down, nor has given any evidence that they are now shooting down civilian craft.
Russian Radar can also tell the difference between Fighters and Commercial jets, while the Seperatists do not.

Meanwhile, Ukraine doesn't have anything capable near by where it was supposedly shot down, its very far inside seperatist territory.

And the Ukrainian forces do have Buks but that could only mean the separatist rebels stole a Buk from the Ukrainians in the rebellion.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

So, given this thread is 36 pages in, is there a general consensus on what actually happened?

It's still too early to come to any real conclusion, but the current best theory (to my mind,) is that the separatists got a hold of Ukrainian SAMs they didn't really know how to use and accidentally blew up a passenger jet.

The (supposed) Ukrainian recording of the separatists talking to Russian intelligence agents would seem to support the idea that this was accidental.

Not that that reduces there responsibility of the separatists if they shot the plane down.

[The Scientific States]

And, why do you think it's Ukrainian separatists?

The Russian Federation doesn't have a reason to shoot it down, nor has given any evidence that they are now shooting down civilian craft.
Russian Radar can also tell the difference between Fighters and Commercial jets, while the Seperatists do not.

Meanwhile, Ukraine doesn't have anything capable near by where it was supposedly shot down, its very far inside seperatist territory.

Who said anything about the Russian Federation doing it? The general consensus is that Russian militants did it. Russian Militants=/=Russian Federation.

Also, Ukrainian separatists have no reason to pull something like this either.

[Slavija Slovenska]

The Russian Federation doesn't have a reason to shoot it down, nor has given any evidence that they are now shooting down civilian craft.
Russian Radar can also tell the difference between Fighters and Commercial jets, while the Seperatists do not.

Meanwhile, Ukraine doesn't have anything capable near by where it was supposedly shot down, its very far inside seperatist territory.

And the Ukrainian forces do have Buks but that could only mean the separatist rebels stole a Buk from the Ukrainians in the rebellion.

Didn't think about that…sounds possible