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Malaysian Airliner crashes in Ukraine

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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:15 pm

Alien Space Bats wrote:
OMGeverynameistaken wrote:Again, what's the motivation?

Putin is an amoral political bastard. Yes. He has demonstrated an exceptional capacity for being a jerk. What he has not shown is a tendency towards stupidity. Why, just when everybody was starting to forget about the whole Ukraine thing, would he choose to draw everybody's attention back to it in the most spectacularly awful way possible? What, exactly, is the benefit to Putin and Russia?

Are we speaking hypothetically here?

Strictly speaking, if we are, then it would be this: To send a signal to the West to knock it off with the sanctions and let Russia do whatever the Hell it please within its "sphere of influence", lest Westerners get killed in "accidents" like this. The underlying assumption, of course, is that the West doesn't have the balls to respond in any way other than further sanctions, which would in turn be met with more "accidents". In time, the West, unwilling to escalate (or continue paying a price in blood to maintain their anti-Russian sanctions), would back off.

Or so the theory goes.

Again, this is strictly a hypothetical response to a hypothetical question — nothing more.

ADDENDUM: Bonus points here for the separatists refusing to allow anybody but Russian investigators to the crash scene, with Russian investigators then hauling off all the debris to someplace in Russia, conducting their own investigation, and then announcing to the world that the Malaysian 777 blew up in mid-air spontaneously, and that the Boeing Corporation's flagship product is unsafe, with a call for customers to demand a recall and refund that would bankrupt America's foremost commercial aircraft vendor.

See, I can come up with all kinds of interesting conspiracy theories, too. All one needs for that sort of thing is a complete isolation from any relevant facts.


I don't think that Putin is even hypothetically dumb enough to think that causing a multinational incident in a way that will INSTANTLY (as has been demonstrated here) be blamed on Russia until it is absolutely proven otherwise will be a good way to get 'the west' to back off. Again, Putin is many things, but I hope we can agree he's not mentally disabled.
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Slavija Slovenska
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Postby Slavija Slovenska » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:18 pm

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:
Alien Space Bats wrote:Are we speaking hypothetically here?

Strictly speaking, if we are, then it would be this: To send a signal to the West to knock it off with the sanctions and let Russia do whatever the Hell it please within its "sphere of influence", lest Westerners get killed in "accidents" like this. The underlying assumption, of course, is that the West doesn't have the balls to respond in any way other than further sanctions, which would in turn be met with more "accidents". In time, the West, unwilling to escalate (or continue paying a price in blood to maintain their anti-Russian sanctions), would back off.

Or so the theory goes.

Again, this is strictly a hypothetical response to a hypothetical question — nothing more.

ADDENDUM: Bonus points here for the separatists refusing to allow anybody but Russian investigators to the crash scene, with Russian investigators then hauling off all the debris to someplace in Russia, conducting their own investigation, and then announcing to the world that the Malaysian 777 blew up in mid-air spontaneously, and that the Boeing Corporation's flagship product is unsafe, with a call for customers to demand a recall and refund that would bankrupt America's foremost commercial aircraft vendor.

See, I can come up with all kinds of interesting conspiracy theories, too. All one needs for that sort of thing is a complete isolation from any relevant facts.


I don't think that Putin is even hypothetically dumb enough to think that causing a multinational incident in a way that will INSTANTLY (as has been demonstrated here) be blamed on Russia until it is absolutely proven otherwise will be a good way to get 'the west' to back off. Again, Putin is many things, but I hope we can agree he's not mentally disabled.

Well…you never know
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Costa Fierro
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:22 pm

I'm watching the BBC and they were asking why they flew over the area. Shit, we flew over Afghanistan when I was on a flight from Singapore to Frankfurt.
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Great Empire of Gamilus
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Postby Great Empire of Gamilus » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:22 pm

Notice how quick everyone starts blaming Russia or anyone pro Russian? great job turning this into politics, the west has no heart.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:24 pm

Great Empire of Gamilus wrote:Notice how quick everyone starts blaming Russia or anyone pro Russian? great job turning this into politics, the west has no heart.


Plane is flying over pro-Russian stronghold. Plane is shot down over said stronghold. Doesn't take much to guess who may be responsible.
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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:25 pm

Great Empire of Gamilus wrote:Notice how quick everyone starts blaming Russia or anyone pro Russian? great job turning this into politics, the west has no heart.

That's because there is quite a bit to assume that it was the pro-Russian insurrectionists.

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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:27 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:I'm watching the BBC and they were asking why they flew over the area. Shit, we flew over Afghanistan when I was on a flight from Singapore to Frankfurt.

Hell, civilian aircraft were flying over Iraq after the invasion.

And I've flown over a few warzones.
Last edited by Napkiraly on Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Free Tristania
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Postby Free Tristania » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:32 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:I'm watching the BBC and they were asking why they flew over the area. Shit, we flew over Afghanistan when I was on a flight from Singapore to Frankfurt.

Same here.. from Frankfurt to Bangkok.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:33 pm

The Russians are now trying to put some blame on Poland.

Edit: And the rebels have the FDR and the black box. Fucking brilliant.
Last edited by Costa Fierro on Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Slavija Slovenska
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Postby Slavija Slovenska » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:35 pm

Great Empire of Gamilus wrote:Notice how quick everyone starts blaming Russia or anyone pro Russian? great job turning this into politics, the west has no heart.

And the beast from the east is cold. She's as cold as ice! Didn't need to sacrifice oh no!
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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:36 pm

That's very sad and unfortunate.
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Organized States
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Postby Organized States » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:36 pm

I believe President Reagan summed up this crisis pretty well in 1964. We must show the Russians there is a point that we will not go beyond, and this, I believe this is it, if found to have been shot down by the rebels.

I'm sorry about the ultra patriotic freedom ain't free version, but I couldn't find another one without the music.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JDVT-8tUfiE
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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:38 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Great Empire of Gamilus wrote:Notice how quick everyone starts blaming Russia or anyone pro Russian? great job turning this into politics, the west has no heart.


Plane is flying over pro-Russian stronghold. Plane is shot down over said stronghold. Doesn't take much to guess who may be responsible.


Has it been confirmed that the plane was shot down?
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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:38 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:The Russians are now trying to put some blame on Poland.

Edit: And the rebels have the FDR and the black box. Fucking brilliant.

Oh Kurwa, everything is Polan's fault

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Free Tristania
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Postby Free Tristania » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:38 pm

Organized States wrote:I believe President Reagan summed up this crisis pretty well in 1964. We must show the Russians there is a point that we will not go beyond, and this, I believe this is it, if found to have been shot down by the rebels.

I'm sorry about the ultra patriotic freedom ain't free version, but I couldn't find another one without the music.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JDVT-8tUfiE

Hear hear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo

Pro-Russian rebels discuss the shooting down of the Malaysian Airlines airliner
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The Republic of Pantalleria
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Postby The Republic of Pantalleria » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:39 pm

The Russians are going to pay for this... How else would a plane cruising at 33,000 feet be shot down, even if it wasn't the Russians directly, it was still going to be a pro-russian force...
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Slavija Slovenska
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Postby Slavija Slovenska » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:39 pm

Organized States wrote:I believe President Reagan summed up this crisis pretty well in 1964. We must show the Russians there is a point that we will not go beyond, and this, I believe this is it, if found to have been shot down by the rebels.

I'm sorry about the ultra patriotic freedom ain't free version, but I couldn't find another one without the music.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JDVT-8tUfiE


I think he summed up his ego and pretty much just about everything else that was his after watergate
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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:39 pm

The Scientific States wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
Plane is flying over pro-Russian stronghold. Plane is shot down over said stronghold. Doesn't take much to guess who may be responsible.


Has it been confirmed that the plane was shot down?

US officials are saying it was.

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Slavija Slovenska
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Postby Slavija Slovenska » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:39 pm

Free Tristania wrote:
Organized States wrote:I believe President Reagan summed up this crisis pretty well in 1964. We must show the Russians there is a point that we will not go beyond, and this, I believe this is it, if found to have been shot down by the rebels.

I'm sorry about the ultra patriotic freedom ain't free version, but I couldn't find another one without the music.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JDVT-8tUfiE

Hear hear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo

Pro-Russian rebels discuss the shooting down of the Malaysian Airlines airliner

If it's not vice i don't wanna watch it
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Free Tristania
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Postby Free Tristania » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:40 pm

Slavija Slovenska wrote:
Free Tristania wrote:Hear hear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo

Pro-Russian rebels discuss the shooting down of the Malaysian Airlines airliner

If it's not vice i don't wanna watch it

Russia is now another pariah state.
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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:41 pm

Napkiraly wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:
Has it been confirmed that the plane was shot down?

US officials are saying it was.


Well, shit.
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Roski Emericans
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Postby Roski Emericans » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:41 pm

So

1: Never board a flight in Malaysia
2: Never board a flight going to Malaysia
3: Never board a flight with thousands of SAM sites in the path
4: Never board a flight over the indian ocean.

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Costa Fierro
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:41 pm

The Scientific States wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
Plane is flying over pro-Russian stronghold. Plane is shot down over said stronghold. Doesn't take much to guess who may be responsible.


Has it been confirmed that the plane was shot down?


The US are saying it is. Russian cossacks said they shot it down.
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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:42 pm

The Republic of Pantalleria wrote:The Russians are going to pay for this... How else would a plane cruising at 33,000 feet be shot down, even if it wasn't the Russians directly, it was still going to be a pro-russian force...

A "pro-Russian" state which the Russians have been distancing themselves from.

As I said earlier, I'd bet on this either being a foolish accident by some trigger-happy separatist or a desperate Hail Mary play to force Putin's involvement.
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Roski Emericans
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Postby Roski Emericans » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:42 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:
Has it been confirmed that the plane was shot down?


The US are saying it is. Russian cossacks said they shot it down.


Cossacks are still a thing?

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